unclebuck

"Muslim girls in France could be barred from wearing headscarves in schools after an expert commission recommended a ban on "conspicuous" religious signs."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3309885.stm

This strikes me as a very sensible idea.

It would help with integrating people into their chosen society and prevent the negative associations that many people with such symbolism. What do you reckon? Would this be a good idea? Not just in schools and not just children, but people of all ages in all public places.

Katana

Yup. All religious symbols should not be encourage. I mean, religion is what encited hatred in the past and even in present times today.

magepaster

iTrader: (2)

I agree religion should not be an overtly visible belief system as it only encourages confrontation and hatred from others with differing beliefs.

I`m sure if I were to send my Christian son to school wearing a crown of thorns and carrying a loaf of bread and bottle of wine it would be classed as inciteful behaviour.

I know it`s not as simple as that but if you can`t tell someones religion by looking at them it`s harder for them to be targeted by others.

PG

Sorry, Iknow it is meant to be a serious subjuct but
LMFAO !!

Jye

This was disgused at great lenght on CWE UB.

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=254415

beemerboy

.. maybe his telly has packed in..?

BB

Katana

I think that instead of this Scarves, Cross and stuff, they should introduce Japanese schoolgirl uniforms to replace this. I mean, like that girl in Kill Bill. This should be acceptable to all parties..

unclebuck

Jye as usual in CWE it didn't stay on topic for very long did it?

Katana - good solution

UB

Little Clanger

I dont have anything against other religions, but I do feel that if we are to accept others, they MUST accept ours. If I wanted to go to school in a loin cloth with a crown of thorns, I do not expect to be branded a racist.

If I have a child in a "PREDOMINANTLY" Christian country, I expect their studies to be given with a predominantly christian slant. I expect the Nativity play at Christmas WITHOUT cries of "thats not representative of multi-cultural Britain" if a Muslim OPTS to attend a Christian school, should a Muslim prayer room be an entitlement? Should there not be a school for muslims only that allows them to be taught and to pray an a manner conducive to their religion? Surely this would be better than to create such an avid distinction between the beleifs of the minority and those of the majority? Do I want my son taught Hindi, Sanskrit, Arabic purely because a number within the class believe their cultural roots more important than his? No I do not. This Country has its identity carved in stone whether we are proud of it or not. We abandon it at our peril.

I reiterate. I am not a racist. I accept all for who and what they are. HOWEVER, I expect and demand that the arrangement is reciprocated. Our differences make us individual, and that is what makes each of us special.

P.S. I am Irish, and Fecking proud of it.

Some of the cr@p written on these threads makes my bloody teeth itch.

Katana

AS usual, I always make sense.

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/...yama,%20Chiaki

Little Clanger

Katana,
my teeth are startin to itch.

She is a bit of a babe though

Katana

Now you see how it all makes sense? Gogo makes everyone happy. Especially me.

Jye

--Jye as usual in CWE it didn't stay on topic for very long did it?--

Thats an understatement m8

andrewdelvard

If people have any negative associations with the scarf then that's their problem, not the fault of the scarf.

Little Clanger

andrewdelvard,
you missed the point of the quote you borrowed completely mate. IF you were correct (which you are not), it would be like saying if people had negative associations with the Swastika, it would be their problem not the flag's. Now I'm sure you can work out that life just aint like that. C'mon man, sort it out! Trying to be philosophical can backfire if you are not careful.

NACRO

Where is this fictional predominantly christian country? It sure as hell isn't the UK.

All apparatus of the state should be totally secular by law.

Katana

Agreed. And may I add that race shouldnt be an issue when it comes to deciding who benefits what. Just because you're an ethnic minority, doesnt mean you should get special treatment in anything. This is coming from a so called ethnic minority too..

Brit_in_Japan

And after studying the subject religiously I would second Katana's choice, Japanese school uniforms for all

TelBoy

<not posting pics! Yet!>

Nacro, in what sense is the UK not predominantly Christian?

Luke

Relgion should be banned for under 18 year olds. Its causing too many problems. Its almost abuse. . I hate all the extreme Hassidic Schools around N.London. never letting the children wear mormal clothes or mix with other children.

Get rid of all these walls.

Little Clanger

NACRO,
would support Telboys question. Your "smoke n mirrors" wording makes your point look vaguely intellectual.

Since when has religion been "apparatus of the State"?

Secular by law? Peleeease.!..!! Law is based on religious practices from centuries past. Grab your shoulders and give yourself a darn good shake man. The two have, are and will always be inextricably linked.

Dracoro

Most aren't active Christians. Many will say 'yeah, I'm christian' but aren't practicing or churchgoers. It's just a label.

There's two separate things here. There are people that believe in God and those that actively follow religious teachings. The UK is made up PREDOMINATELY of the former, not the latter.

TelBoy

That's a different point Drac. Does the fact that many people don't have lifestyles which allow them to prioritise Church, or the way in which the Church represents their Christianity, make them any less Christian??

If it does, there's a *LOT* of people going through a complete charade for two week's time....

[Edited by TelBoy - 12/12/2003 12:45:35 PM]

Little Clanger

Telboy old bean, you beat me to it again.

Dracoro (who could be NACRO in disguise) yet another wrong-un!! Is someones successful achievement of a Christian way of life measured by what they do in the church, or outside it? If it is outside (which crediting you with some nouse is what I would expect you to choose) then surely, logic would dictate that a "christian" is not by definition, one who attends church on a weekly (more or less) basis.

Doh! the thread gets worse.

NACRO

A Christian is someone who believes christ is/was the son of god-AFAIK.

I don't for one minute believe the majority of people in the UK hold that belief. They certainly don't practice it or go to church in any numbers that would support the notion of the UK as a christian state.

As for your assertions about law- many laws are based on religious teachings and christianity took many of its laws from other earlier beliefs. My point being it doesn't matter how something evolved, only the present is of any relevance. IMHO religion should have no influence whatsoever on a modern secular state.

edited to add: Clanger I have no idea what you are trying to say in a couple of your posts- all a bit too "smoke and mirrors" for my liking, try using plain English


[Edited by NACRO - 12/12/2003 1:00:03 PM]

andrewdelvard

Nonsense.

The point I have made is correct.


People have reason, intense deep feelings to hate the symbolism of the swastika. It recalls a point in history when a madman, supported by others (who hopefully are burning in hell as write) determined to wipe out, a amongst others, the Jewish population of Europe. Why? well amongst many other reasons because his way, was the only way, was the right way Because anyone who deviated from what was considered the 'norm' was a threat, not to be trusted.
A couple of examples;

In 1935 anti-Semitism became legal.Mnay laws came into effect but the two main ones were....
1)The pure-blood law, that no Germans could marry those of non-German blood. There were no intimate relations allowed, specifically no marriage allowed with Jews. Offenders were humiliated.
2)The revoking of citizenship from any non-Germans. That meant that if someone went into a Jewish business and walked out with some goods, or someone went into a Jewish house and took away their belongings, there was no recourse in courts.

What a load of crap eh?

It goes without much explaining that to compare the symbolism of a scarf with the symbolism of the swastika is laughable. Why did you?

If people want to wear a scarf through religious choice, because it makes them happier because, because..... because well they just want too...

Let them.

It makes no difference to your life, to your day to day existence, changes nothing.
It would be the same as trying to ban people wearing big orange woolly hats.
How ridiculous is that?

[Edited by andrewdelvard - 12/12/2003 1:02:11 PM]

NACRO

Couldn't agree more with your points about letting people wear headscarf, cross, or whatever if it makes them happy Andrew.

Personally I think in the case of the headscarf ban over here in France a lot of it is down to good old fashioned French racism, it is endemic over here, look how le pen has managed to remain semi-respectable.

TelBoy

Ok Nacro, so that's your opinion, fair enough. When you said "sure as hell" not the UK, i thought you'd be able to back it up factually, that's all...

[Edited by TelBoy - 12/12/2003 1:06:49 PM]

NACRO

Hard to back it up factually when I know that people won't accept the church attendance figures as evidence that the UK isn't a christian society.

Personally I think that the figures (25% population attending church) show quite clearly that christians are a minority of the general population. Anyone who doesn't attend a church or have worship in their own homes isn't a christian in my eyes- simple.

It's a problem of definitions as far as I can see. I'm sure people won't accept my definition of what makes a christian, mostly because it blows their arguments out of the water.

TelBoy

I think you're assuming a closer link with people's satisfaction with "the Church" and their beliefs than exists.

I'm sure there are many, many people who believe in God, Jesus and so on, but who do not need to go to Church every week to prove it, either to themselves or to others.

That does not fundamentally make this country any less Christian.

[Edited by TelBoy - 12/12/2003 1:20:29 PM]