unclebuck

source

Good to know old "blindgit" is quietly getting on with the important business of selling this country up the swanny. We have to get these people out of office.

UB[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

dr_ming

Kick his stick away.

The Zohan

Not suprising, a shame but not suprising.

the moose

Straw Man alert! You're creating a false argument here - he was answering a specific point on a specific types of migrant.

What Blunkett actually said, when posed a question about the limit on the number of skilled migrants who could arrive, was: "No, I see no obvious limit. "

In what way is this selling the country down the Swanee? Skilled migrants contribute through paying taxes and therefore enrich the country. Why would you have a problem with that?



[Edited by the moose - 11/13/2003 1:23:40 PM]

unclebuck

Yes, but that is their 'clever' spin to mask the truth -

"There is widespread concern that the government have expanded the scope of legal migration as a way to cover up their failure to tackle widespread abuse of the asylum system."

sounds more like the reality. You can't believe a word they say anymore I'm afraid.

Bajie

UB you're not being fair

I took this out from the site

__________________

Speaking on BBC Two's Newsnight, Mr Blunkett said he was determined to cut the numbers of asylum seekers and illegal immigrants entering the UK.

But he wanted more skilled workers to come to Britain legally to plug staff shortages - especially in the catering, hospitality and construction industries.


Asked whether there was any limit on the number of skilled migrants who could arrive, Mr Blunkett said: "No, I see no obvious limit.
__________________

Hanslow

I can see an obvious limit....it's called housing or space.

All depends on the amount of people fleeing this deepening poo-pit though.

unclebuck

As I say, that is a deflection. Spin to mask the fact of his total incompetence in dealing with the issue of migration.

unclebuck

As I say, that is a deflection. Spin to mask the fact of his total incompetence in dealing with the issue of migration.

Or to quote Andrew Green fron the same article:

"We have no problem with moderate and managed migration. The problem is that it is neither moderate nor managed,"

Dr Hu

What I don't understand about all this stuff is that the Government say we need lots more people to come into the country to pay taxes & create jobs to pay for the older people who are living longer.

This appears to be a very vicious circle, you can't simply keep increasing the population because as young people come in, they will also get older, therefore we have more older people and then need yet MORE immigration to keep the taxes up etc etc .....

Bizzarely a time that most would say that Great Britain really was 'Great' and at the forefront of the world was 100-150 years ago and we had no where near the population we have now (half?), but were much better off for it.....

Wierd - I think overpopulation of this country is getting massively out of control.

Somehow its got to stop, and the government seem to looking very short-term

More residents means more traffic, more pensions, more state benefits, more houses... the negatives just go on and on...!

Jye

But he wanted more skilled workers to come to Britain legally to plug staff shortages - especially in the catering, hospitality and construction industries.

Why dont we just train our presently unemployed folk to do the above? Catering hospitality and construction!! Its hardly rocket science.

gtr_man

The reason that theres a shortage of skilled people is that the kids that come out of school these days are downright lazy. They only thing of interest to them is mobile phones and computer games.

I should know I've tried to hire and train a couple of youngsters but they are just not intrested - it's comfy living with Mum and Dad

The Zohan

Dr Hu, Jye, exactly!

Dr Hu - The UK's population pre 1950 was around 30 million, half what it is now, pre 1920 it was around 18 million, 2/3rds of what it was in 1940. Taking into account losses during the world wars we still have a lot more population.
We do have limited rescourses including land to build on.

we still have unemployed who could be trained to fill in certain jobs.

Yes it does seem to be a viscious circle regarding pensions, schools, healthcare, etc.

I believe this will cause more problems that it will solve.

Plus this government has no idea how many 'illegals' have 'sneaked' into the country.

[Edited by Paul Habgood - 11/13/2003 3:29:15 PM]

gtr_man

Allowing immigrants into this country is a good thing. Everyone benefits from it,
- They add diversity to the community
- They encourage resourcefulness
- They provide cheap labour

I’ll give you a concrete example. Recently a hand car wash place opened up staffed exclusively by Eastern Europeans. I must say they do an excellent job. Very efficient, hard working and very cheap. Previously the only alternative was a hand car wash manned by useless English thugs. Rude, lazy, inefficient and totally useless. Charged a fortune for half a job. They are now closed – permanently. Driven out of business by simply a better service.

So you see people – you can moan all you want – but immigrants are good for the economy. Bring them on...

blueE9

OK so how about, you get in but you can't claim any benefits whatsoever until you've made £(x) of Nat Ins contributions. No free lunch = no freeloaders.

scoobyvirgin

Gtr man, Where are you based? I'm not lazy or into computer games and mobile phones. Would love to be trained as anything.

Any chance of a Job?

pugoetru

geeza job i can do that !!

Suresh

IMHO encouraging immigration of skilled labour is probably a good thing for the economy. The US has done this since foundation and is all the more successful for it. Does anyone dispute this??

Of course some care needs to be taken to avoid creating enclaves of foreign cultures, even if they are well educated. Assimilation is to be encouraged.

In contrast, the Netherlands has in recent decades encouraged immigration of unskilled labour and now has a problem with the send generation of these particular immigrants (Moroccans). The perception of them at the moment is one of lazy thieving ba$tards. I have no interaction with them so I cannot comment from first hand experience. This latter form of cheap labour immigation really is to be avoided...

Scoobs_4ever

Not that I listen to Radio 4 all the time but the best description I've heard of the Blunkett political style is..


......"the problem with David Blunkett, is that he tells it as he sees it....."

No laughing.

dosenöffner

I'd like to think I am contributing to this country during my stay. They sourced me from overseas because they couldn't find anyone here capable of the job.

Shame.

PS. I'm white and from an English speaking country if that helps. And let's not forget. You invaded us first.

ajm

Sorry, but we don't NEED skilled migrants. We have pleanty of people here who can do the job with training.

Time to start looking after our own interests first.

[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

gtr_man

So why is it that we have a skills shortage here. I reckon its because the state encourages people to sit on thier **** and collect benefits. Why work when the state will look after you.

Forget training all you have to do is turn up at a job interview and make sure you are not right for the job - easy.

The Zohan

Another side to skilled migrants is that the countries they are whisked way from then loose this rescource, countries that need nurses, doctors, etc are now devoid of them and having even harder times due to the shortages.

Retrain

Leslie

This country is grossly overpopulated already. That in itself will cause its own problems. As far as losing the plot on immigration is concerned, I don't think this government ever had it in the first place. I agree with UB, they are reverting to good old doublespeak now to excuse their incompetence.

Nothing wrong with helping refugees whose lives are genuinely in danger, but we are going to start falling off the edge if this economic immigration continues.

Les

Jye

I work with unemployed folk and AFAIK dole money goes too far, especially with a bit of casual work thrown in. Deffo no reason to get a job these days, not if you dont aspire to much.

No one in our centre will work for the minimum wage, even though they have nothing to offer an employer skills wise.




[Edited by Jye - 11/14/2003 10:37:06 AM]

Missile Man

Just to add my thoughts on this thread....

My missus is from Slovakia. We did everything by the book as regards legalising her status in this country, but we were (both) treated like a piece of **** throughout the process.

To give an example, we had to go to the Home Office at Croydon to simply get a stamp in her passport. We had originally tried to do it by post but they took so long to achieve absolutely nothing, they f*cked up our holiday plans. So we had to go there in person. We waited ALL DAY and got passed from one department to another, only to be told at 7.00pm that they were now closed and we would have to come back the next day.

Not wanting to waste another day I went ballistic, and they decided that maybe they could stamp her passport that day after all, which took all of 30 seconds.

All I can say is that if you try to do things properly you are so often the loser in this country.

I know of people who have come to the UK with temporary permission, and just stayed on illegally by disappearing. And they get away with it because very often there is no record of people who come here, and the "system" just can't keep track of them. And then these people often work illegally for employers who turn a blind eye. And because there are no records, the statistics for illegal immigration are vastly inaccurate - there is an assumption that "visitors" have left the country when their permission expired.

They only ever get caught if they are stopped by the police or if the immigration dept at the Home Office is tipped off - but in a recent case in Hampshire it took the Home Office 18 months and a series of tip-offs before they visited a Turkish restaurant and found some illegal immigrants working there. And what punishment did they get? They were sent back to Turkey. Big deal.

In my opinion there's no point moaning about people who legally come to live and work here, it is ILLEGAL immigration that is the far bigger problem. But the figures don't say it's a problem.........

Lastly, as regards people coming here from other countries and claiming benefits, the UK government is forced to operate this system under European Human Rights legislation. I don't particularly agree with it, but at least only those who are here legally will be entitled to benefits.

dosenöffner

Well I am legal and an immigrant. I have paid in the region of £15,000 per year in tax whilst also paying tax back home. For the last 4 years I have had no access to public funds whatsoever due to my Visa. Hardly fair is it.

In December my Visa changes so I can claim public funds. I have no intention to do so though as I enjoy working.

Let's not tar us all with the same brush.

If you don't want us all here you shouldn't have tried to have the biggest Empire should you.

How much of this is racial I wonder. How many times have I entered this conversation and had people say "Oh, but you're different. You're ....." pause where I am left to finish their sentence "White?"

How cosy you all look in your ivory towers.

[Edited by dosenöffner - 11/14/2003 12:14:36 PM]

Missile Man

I agree with much of what you say. I think British people often assume all "foreigners" have come here to somehow take unfair advantage of whatever the UK has to offer.

I don't think the public always realise it's ILLEGAL immigration that's the problem.

By all means give illegal immigrants a hard time, they deserve it, but those who have done things properly like you and me/my wife, should not be subjected to harrassment and prejudice.