Chip

If youve got cable. I havent got it in my area so cant have it.

I therefore have no choice but to use BT as do millions of others.

I was getting my calls from NTL a while ago but still had to pay BT.

Therefore I have no choice which gives BT the monopoly.

Chip.

[Edited by Chip - 11/1/2003 3:36:30 PM]

v5 man

iTrader: (4)

BT have installed all the overhead/underground cabling/ducting/manholes/external network, why should 1 tel be using it for free. its BTs network and needs to be rented, or else the lesser companies that have been mentioned should invest in their own wiring and plant.

[Edited by v5 man - 11/1/2003 4:50:32 PM]

Chip

I get my electricity from Swalec but dont pay Nat Grid for a cable rental

I get my Gas from British Gas but dont pay Transco for a pipe rental

My phone bill comes from One-Tel yet I pay BT to rent the line.

Why hasnt this been ivestigated by the Monopolies Commision like it should be.

Chip.

taylor

Swalec pay the grid
British Gas pay transco
One-Tel don't pay BT ..... you do

RB5-Black

problem solved

NotoriousREV

Because BT don't have a Monopoly, you could easily use NTL or Blue Yonder or Telewest. NTL don't charge line rental, for example.

P1Fanatic

Since when dont NTL charge line rental? It might not be called line rental but you still have to pay for a priceplan which amounts to the same as BT Together etc.

Simon.

Fatman

None of these are really line rentals. They're just recurring charges.

NotoriousREV

There is no standing charge on my bill because I take the TV package with them, therefore, no line rental. I think they charge £5 if you have the phone without TV.

Chip

But thats the same as the gas network. British Gas laid all the pipes. Now loads of gas comps sell gas to us.

These lesser companies have installed their own cable system. Bu this is not available to all.


Chip.

v5 man

iTrader: (4)

my point is that it cant be a monopoly just because 1 tel etc dont want to shell out for a network.

Chip

Ok, but my point is that I have no choice as to where I go for my line rental. So therefore BT do have a monopoly on non cable users dont they.

Chip.

v5 man

iTrader: (4)

we`ll just agree to disagree i tink


Regards Cliff (BT engineer)

Gridlock Mikey

I got a bill for £60 the other day for the qtr. I used the phone ONCE!!

Mikey [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

v5 man

iTrader: (4)

Yeh but Mikey, it was a 10 hour call to a premium rate no from an adult art mag

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

But if you don't have a phone line with them you can get an 8.50 per month discount on your TV package.

ChrisB

Erm, much of the BT network was inherited from the Post Office (GPO), when in 81/82 the British Telecommunications Bill split the PO into the Post Office and BT. Yes, BT have ploughed lots of money into the infrastructure since then but as the cable companies found out, whacking cable down streets is horribly expensive. Hence the limited coverage of digital cable services.

Via LLU or Local Loop Unbundling it is possible for a competitor of BT to use the local loop (owned by BT) to provide it's own range of services. Under LLU, a provider can install their own equipment into a BT Exchange and access the physical local loop wiring. There was a good bit of interest in LLU initially, but most players dropped out when the telecomms sector nose dived. EasyNet are probably the biggest LLU service provider and offer a pretty unique range of broadband services (but again aimed at businesses). Bulldog also have some LLU'd exchanges but their interest is also in Internet access.

Outside of big cities like London where some companies have built their own fibre network (mainly for business customers as they have the biggest budgets), BT will remain the dominant player. Stuffing racks full of kit into LLU'd Exchanges costs money, something much of the telecomms sector doesn't really have right now.

Chris.

v5 man

iTrader: (4)

Chris, yep you are correct, and yes BT have and still do invest millions in updating the network, which is what i was getting at really

I am also aware of LLU as I am one of only a few engineers in the wycombe patch that is trained for this kinda work.

I think in basic English I was just trying to say that:
BT have a network which has had/having milllions invested in. if other companys want to use it, fine, but you still have to pay BT `cos its theirs. not really a monopoly me thinks.

Cliff

P1Fanatic

I think I read an article somewhere saying that there is masses of fibre laid under the train tracks used by the former British Rail and at present no one is using it and not many interested due to the current economical climate.

Simon.

Fatman

Simon - that's correct. AFAIK it's only used by Railtrack (or Network Rail, or whoever they are today). My brother used to work for them, and the optic links are used to give huge bandwidth between their offices.

ProperCharlie

if you don't want to pay BT why not just get a pay-as-you-go mobile and have the land line disconnected? i don't really see the problem with paying for line rental in any case.

Chip

Its the fact that I have no choice I was getting at. If I dont have a line then I'll not have internet access either.

Chip.

ProperCharlie

IMO the idea that there should be choice and competition in absolutely every sector and service is wrong. some services lend themselves to being monopolies. would it be efficient to have postmen from several different companies delivering mail to the same places at the same time? no. it would just mean more confusion, traffic and a waste of resources. it isn't really efficient to have several different telecoms companies laying down infrastructure under the streets, hence why most telcos have now stopped doing this in all but the highest demand areas. in areas of the 'developong' world they aren't bothering with cables at all - just going straight to mobile as the costs of installation are so much less. not so good for broadband though.

ChrisB

Chip, IMO...

Through LLU there is platform for telecomms company to offer you a choice.

It's just that none of the them can afford to offer it to you. Also, as a consumer who is most likely interested in paying the smallest cost possible for the circuit, you're not going to be very profitable.

GaryK

Chip,

A valid point and one you cant really get away from. There are about 14 telcos in the UK that can charge you direct for line rental (ours will hopefully be one soon too) but all they do is buy direct from BT wholesale which is what Bt retail (who charge you line rental) do anyway so you're not going to make massive savings.

On another note the call charges that telco's line onetel and Tele2 charge are crafty, connection fee instead of BT min. call cost and per minute billing instead of per second, their headline rates look attractive but arent necessarily so.

Gary