red_dog104

Got an 8 week old Staffy pup yesterday and already at the end of my tether!!

She cried all night and my other dog, Trev got no sleep (neither did I). Got up at 4 and let her outside but she refused to do anything. Cleaned up her crate as she had wee'd in it and put her back in and went back to bed. She started crying again and my partner went down at 5 and said that she had poo'd on her bed so up I got again and cleared up the crate (he was off to work). While I was doing that, she wee'd on the floor (for the 6th time since we got her). She won't wee outside only in her crate.

I have had to come into work (going home for a couple of hours to sort her out around lunch time) but my other half has had a go at me for not stopping off to look after her (it's his puppy btw). Don't know if i've done the wrong thing leaving her and not sure how to get her to stop going to the toilet in her crate and go outside.

Please help!

sexy wrx69

puppies shouldnt be left alone....especially after youve just got them. Training takes a long time and a lot of patience.

in light of your other threads about dogs...do you think these are the best pets for you???

PG

you and your dogs

let us know your feeding routine and what you feed the pup.

PG

BTW it is best to try and get a weeks hols when you get your pup as this will help a lot !
You should be able to crack house training in that time.
Also, if the pup is to be left then it is better that it is in a crate and safe so I see no probs there.

red_dog104

Been feeding her as the breeder said. 4 times a day. She's on pedigree Chum complete and a bit of tuna added. Also, she has a bit of warm baby milk before bed.

Just spoken to the breeder (who was aware that I had to work when I got her) and she said that pup should be ok because the most she is on her own is 4 hours.

She said I fed her too late and to make her latest feeding time about 6pm, so that may solve a problem. Also that the whinging is prob her needing the loo so I need to get up in the night when she starts!

I feel really guilty cause i've been calling the poor little thing all the names under the sun!!!

Anymore tips other than the ones the breeder has given me?

BTW, had so many probs with first dog as he was a rescue dog and had alot of issues which are now sorted. I have never had a puppy before and that's why i'm asking advice, so no, I don't think that dogs are the wrong choice of pets for us.

AliWrx Mk2

Hi Red,
Really as others have already stated you/your other half need to be at home with the puppy full time for the first week.

How big is the create you are using? You should really be using a cat box or something similar and increasing its size gradually as the puppy grows. As long as the puppy has enough space to comfortable, ie stand up and turn round etc.

This is important if you hope to house train him as a puppy will not mess in its own bed if at all possible, unless they can get far enough away from it. Thing is a new puppy does not have that much self control so by not being there to let him out and watch him, he has no choice but to make a mess. By making the puppy mess in there own bed you will cause it stress and toilet training will become very diffcult.

As for sleeping through the night, expect to be up every two/three hours at first and go outside with them until they do there buisness, giving a command so he assoicates going to the toilet with your command.

Also try putting a hot water bottle (not boiling) under his blanket in his crate as he will associate the warmth with being with his litter mates.

One other thing, if you know the puppy has been out and done his buisness do not under any circumstances go to him when he crys no matter how distressing it may be. You will only teach him that if he cry's you come and see him. NOT GOOD AT ALL!

Prepare yourself for a long week, it will be worth it, but someone needs to be at home.

Hope this helps

Ali
PS Get a copy of The Dog Listener.

[Edited by AliWrx Mk2 - 8/18/2003 10:40:18 AM]

Sub97

Puppies need to go to the loo every time they wake up so its not suprising that if you come down and find something and try and clear it up it is going while you're doing it.

Training them also takes time and patience, and I'm not being rude, but if you're at the end of your teather after a few nights of howling and toilets inside then Id have to agree that maybe dogs arent for you. A puppy cant go that long without needing the toilet as they dont have great bladders when theyre little, so as soon as they wake up if you go outside with them and say a phrase to let them know what you want (eg "Be clean" "have a wee" etc) and then prasie them heavily when they do - a/ They'll learn a lot quicker, and b/ They'll usually go to the loo within about 5 minutes of waking up. In my experience (around 10 dogs in my life) it takes a lot of hard work in the first few weeks but once they get the hang of it its worth it. If you let them get into a habit of going inside then it will be a lot harder to break.

My post may sound a bit rude but my mum worked for a rescue centre and Im sick and tired of people getting animals when they cant be bothered to put the effort they require into them, and then blame the dogs, and then end up giving them away.

zax

Mine is just over 12 weeks now and it's been hard work At 8 weeks there are bound to be accidents. No point saying anything to the puppy unless you catch him in the act, he won't know why you're annoyed. If you do catch him, pick him up and take him out. Routine helped a lot with Clyde - he goes out 1st thing, then breakfast, then out again, and always after playing or sleeping. Same thing at night. Choose a phrase to use when you want the puppy to crap, and use it! Make a fuss when he does and give him a treat. Is your crate quite big? If it's too big there will be room for a living section and a bathroom section in there. And as others have said, don't go to him every time he whines! If you must go wait until he's quietened down a bit. He'll get there in the end...

V5

Just HOW do you milk a baby???

red_dog104

Idiot! Thanks everyone else for the advice/info. Off to see her in half hour so hope she is ok. Guess the nice thing is she is always pleased to see me even when I have gone out of the room and back in again!! Expecting a big fuss and lots of kisses from her when I get in. Feel a little calmer and a little more able to cope now. Lack of sleep sends me into a flat spin most of the time!!

[Edited by red_dog104 - 8/18/2003 11:41:34 AM]

Diablo

RD, have just gone through the same with a Rottie pup.

Puppies will need out every hour they are awake to pee.

Never chastise your puppy for messing indoors, but give it lots of praise and a doggy treat when it performs outside. To a pup a reaction is a reaction. If you then react when they do something bad, they don't know the difference and will continue doing it to get a reaction. Use a command like toilet when you take it outside.

If you come down to a mess, put the puppy outside somewhere safe, if it goes again, lots of praise and a treat and then clear up the mess.

Never keep it in its crate for more than 1 hour at a time if you can.

Dogs have an involuntary bowel spasm every two hours. If they are stressed, that spasm will cause them to deficate. if they are unstressed, they can usually hold on.

Routine is all important, then the pup will get into the habit of deficating at the same time every day.

You can't expect an 8 week old baby to have toilet functions like an adult, so don't expect a puppy to behave like an adult dog.

As for the crying, yes its attention seeking. If you must keep it in its crate at night though would you consider having the crate in your bedroom?

AS for house training, if you put the pup outside at regular intervals and praise it for doing well, it will soon learn to go outside.

Our recent experience

First few nights - Used the crate at night. Came down to a fair mess in the morning. lots of howling.

Week 2 - having secured the kitchen from a safety point of view, put his bed in the kitchen and gave him the run of it. Came down to a fair mess. Fine for one night then lots of howling

Problem was, he would waken up, get stressed and then have to go to the toilet. Understandable.

Bit the bullet, gave in and put his bed upstairs in our room. (Our fully grown bitch sleeps there anyway. Covered the floor in puppy pads and expected the worst.

Result?

One happy, quiet, unstressed puppy that slept through the night and no mess whatsoever.

Haven't looked back. Fully houstrained as a result in 3 weeks.

Whether you do that or not is up to you, but it worked for us.
------------

Nicked this from another site. But I know the owner and she won't mind:

There is no great mystery in housetraining, it’s very simple and down to plain common sense.

A dog is likely to want to relieve himself :

After eating;
After exercise;
After play;
On waking;
Before bedtime;
On a regular basis!

It’s important to take him outside after all these activities and preferably once an hour. As a baby he will not have wonderful bladder control so by taking him out on a regular basis, you will show him exactly what is expected of him.

A dog will use its nose to select a suitable spot so as soon as you see him sniffing the floor (especially circling), pick him up and place him outside. As soon as he performs, lots and lots of praise plus a treat – you will be surprised how soon he will get the idea!

It’s important to stay outside with him to give him the chance to do his business, he won’t always select the first few seconds. If nothing has happened after 5 minutes or so, take him indoors and try again later on. Remember lots of praise when he performs. When he has the idea, you can introduce a specific command so he knows what you want him to do.

Always stay with your pup so you can praise him – most important!

Never punish him for an accident, you run the risk of making him fearful of toileting in your presence and we don’t want this. If you stick to a regular schedule, the accidents will be extremely minimal.

If any distraction is introduced, it must be when your pup in the act, not afterwards. It’s preferable to say nothing, just pick him up and get him outside. As he begins to regard the home as his, he will not want to foul it.

If you do have an accident, it’s important to clean the area well or your pup may think it’s acceptable to use that spot due to the scent. The best way to clear up any accidents, is to get some tissue or other absorbent paper and stack it on the wet patch. Stand on it, it will force the paper to absorb most of the liquid, repeat until all the excess liquid is gone. Then clean the area with a suitable washing solution – in the event of any stains, use Vanish foam spray, it’s extremely good!

Your pup will find it difficult to get through the night so you will invariably have some accidents. Use polythene sheeting as we mentioned earlier with newspaper then cleaning up is simple.

If your pup wakes you in the night, go downstairs and let him out. If he toilets, lots and lots of praise. Only praise him for this though, it’s important that he doesn’t think he can cry and you will come to fuss him!

House training is a very speedy process and providing you use common sense, you won’t have any problems.

It’s quite common for him to be house trained within a week but remember not to expect too much of him when he has to go through the night.

--------------

HTH

D

PG

Hi red,

just skimmed the repliesbut here are some thoughts.
Dont feed too close to bed time ( what time do you feed ?)
Liquid b4 bed !! no wonder the poor wee thing needs to go during the night.
Milk, not a good thing ! most dogs can be lactose intollerant.
there is a fine line between making sure the pup has plenty water and having too much. Leave water out at certain times then once the pup has drunk the water ...out it goes .... and doesnt get back in until something has been done (may take 10 sec, may take 10 mins so it is as much of a test of your patience than training your dog.
The pup whining is prob not the pup needing the loo as it prob doesnt have that much control yet as to know when it is going to drop a load. It will more than likely be seperation anxity(sp).
If the dog is whining let it whine
That is all for just now..in a bit of a rush but will have a better look later.....good luck

PG

**** me Diablo !!

think anything I typed is prob in there !!!

lady1

I've got a staff myself for the past two years now and i can safely say they are the most affectionate and loveable dogs ever. Mine was the same at that age. Dont feed her after 8 and i know it may sound stupid but always make it clear to her when you are taking her to go to the loo where you are taking her. after a couple of weeks she will get used to you saying things like it's time to go out and once you say it she will go to the door herself. She cries because she is afraid of being on her own. Dont let anything put you off this dog, i wouldn't part with mine for any amount of money. You will see alot of loyalty from her, but also alot of jelousy, she will try to get in between you and your partner when you snugle up so watch out for that. If you need any more advice gimme a shout....

red_dog104

Thanks so much for all the advice (esp Diablo.......what would I do without you?!)

Went home at lunch time and she had wee'd in her crate but not much. She was very pleased to see me. Took her in the garden and she peed there (hooray!!). Fed her, took her back out for about 15 mins and had a play then put her in the toilet spot and she did a dribble (she tried really hard!!)

I guess she will be fine, just confused about where and when to go! When I left, she had climbed on her bed and was dozing. Fingers crossed when my other half gets home at 3 she will still have a clean crate!!!

Apparition

Red.... couldn't help but notice that you wrote that thread after only having the pup one night... its bound to cry and be unsettled ... new surroundings etc. Just give it time to settle. Good luck !

Diablo

Absolutely.

Routine is of paramount importance, and lots of praise. Cannot stress enough how important it is not to tell her off if she does it inside.

Look on the bright side - dogs are worse, bitches are far more intelligent

Btw - how is Trev coping with her?

D

ps - our boy was 4 months old last week, I'd post a picture if bloody fotopic was working

chinnybloke

Hello,

We've had 4 Bull Mastiffs and our latest addition is only 4 months old. Crates are fantastic, I swear by them.

For the first 2-3 weeks or so ours was peeing and pooing everywhere, as you would expect.

All we did was:

- Put paper at the front of his crate (only a small bit)
- Put paper in one area in the living room (near the door)
- If he wee'd inside the house NEVER tell him off, just pick him up even as he's doing it and put him on the paper. He learnt to do it on the paper within the 1st 3 weeks that way
- If he is about to wee I say "wee-wee" or "toilet" if it is a number 2. Then make a MASSIVE fuss of him. I did the same with our other dogs too. Our 18 month old bullmastiff pee's or poo's to my command virtually instantly. This method is very effective
- As soon as they wake, get them outside and we always feed them outside but you have to be out there with them. Don't let them in rain or shine until they've done it.

On whinging I don't go down. I always ignore them. The only thing I do is put old clothes (unwashed) into their bed with them. Playing a radio softly might help too.


Good luck!

PG

must admit, not a fan of the paper indoors type thing as to an extent you are teaching them to go in the house.
I usualy watch for the signs and rush them out.
I have 2 boxers, 1 bitch, 1 dog and they were both trained within the week(watched 24/7). If a male boxer can crack it in a week then there is hope for everyone

red_dog104

Hi D

Trev coping quite well considering. He has had to bat her round the ear for muscling in on our fuss time and she keeps trying to nick his bone so he has put her in her place for that!! Aparantly, Molly had her bone and Trev got too close so she barked at him and he jumped a mile! Bless em!

My partner has just sent me a text saying that he thinks she is trying as she got her front paws on the paper (which he just put down)and did a wee (on the carpet)....... FFS, counter productive or what?! Already told him he needs to take her outside if he sees her doing it. DAMN!

Redkop

Took me just over 3 weeks [not being with her 24/7 tho] to get my GSD bitch fully housetrained and 10 days to stop her howling at night. We got a huge crate the day after getting her and used to put her bedding in one half of it and newspaper the half.

Some dried dog foods [and I found Pedigree Chum Complete to be one of them - did make her drink more and also wee/poo more]. Once I found correct diet for her [recommended by my Vet] housetraining was a doddle - a matter of days. After one night she had ceased weeing in the crate and within 5 days was going outside everytime. Are you soaking the dried food for a short while first?
May I ask why you are feeding her Tuna? Also, some 'complete' dog foods make a puppy hyperactive. I now feed my pup [who’s 5 months old] on James Wellbeloved Lamb & Rice Kibble Puppy Performance [soaked briefly first] plus tinned Chappie. Doesn't cause her to excessively drink water or be too hyper.


The crate we got was only as a short-term measure, but she loves it that much as her own ‘space’ so it looks like it’s here to stay now. I also still give her an old sweatshirt in the crate and used to leave the radio or portable tv on until she stopped howling the place down everynight

sexy wrx69

that food is actually one of the best for all dogs. we have ours on that after discovering that most dried dog foods are just colourings with very little goodness in them at all. the excessive colouring is what makes the pups very hyper.


oooh plus most tinned food is actually water....so if you dont want your puppy to pee all the time...i wouldnt advise feeding her tinned stuff.

[Edited by sexy wrx69 - 8/18/2003 4:30:37 PM]

Redkop

Is only a small percentage of Chappie we add to the main diet of the Lamb Kibble, this effectively decreases the amount of water she drinks apparently.

Diablo

We feed our adult on James Wellbeloved Turkey and Rice Large breed (its hypoallergenic and gluten free) but the pup was weaned onto Eukanaba Large Breed Puppy food.

Not necessarily my first choice but he does well on it, so sticking with it for now. Little monster is now over 20 kilos and eating nearly 600 grams of the stuff a day.

Would reiterate whats been said above - make sure you soak dried puppy food.

For one it means they drink less and it seems more of the water is absorbed than simply pee'd out the other end and secondly, and most importantly, avoids bloat which can be very dangerous.

Ours gets about 2 to 3 pints of water soaked into his food a day.

D

Redkop

Yeah at 5 months my bitch weighs in at just over 23kgs and since going on the Lamb Kibble has grown a fantastic coat

NeilT

Reddog - I've got an 11 week old Cocker Spaniel bitch and went through the very same thing a few weeks back (when we first got her)

theres a very very good book called The Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey (probably get it from Amazon) - sorted out all the housetraining and sleeping (being left alone) problems from this

Buy a copy - well worth it

In the end we just left her howling in the kitchen - 2-3 hours at a time. After 3 - 4 days she was going to bed silently and sleeping through the night

Neil

Diablo

So how did it go last night then

red_dog104

Update on Molly!!

Last drink of water at 8pm and then she fell asleep. Woke her at 10.30 and took her outside where she had a wee and then put her in her crate. Not a sound from her!

I slept downstairs on the sofa and when she cried (1.30am) got up, put her outside and she wee'd then back to bed. Cried again at 3.30, so did the same and then got up a 5 as normal. Not one mess AND she went out after breakfast and had a poo in the garden!! I'm really pleased with her (if not a little tired!!). My other half is sleeping downstairs tonight to take her to the toilet when she cries!

I will be changing hers and Trev's diet in a few months to the BARF diet (thread on here somewhere!). Just need to buy a freezer to stock up on stuff and away we go!!!

Muffleman

I have to add to the James Well Beloved voters, it's great !

My Basenji used to LOVE Butchers tripe, but we had a problem with aggression. As part of a number of things we did to calm the bugger down, we moved him off of meat and onto the Well Beloved.

There was a noticable difference, plus he likes the Well Beloved too. Added bonus is he used to go for, roughly, a dump in the morning and a dump in the evening. He now dumps at night only, I guess 'cos the well beloved is better for him and his body uses more of it, there's less crap - literally.

So, he likes it, he's less aggressive and craps less - RESULT !

All the best mate,



Matt

Diablo

I'd be wary of the barf diet.

A vet I trust highly wouldn't recommend it.

Modern dogs are far removed from wild dogs, and their nutrition needs have changed.

Each to their own I suppose. Still, great news about Molly

D