The English Disease
04 August 2003, 12:23 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Between the Fens and the Wolds.
Posts: 3,027
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At a very great risk of starting one huge flame war....(Suit donned just in case)....
I've just been reading the Robbie Williams thread and it set me thinking.....
Why is it, and this seems to be indigenous to our fair land, that if someone becomes successful -at virtually anything- there is always a mob of people ready to have a go ?
It happens over and over again. As soon as someone either makes a huge amount of money, or appears to be popular with the masses or even just does one good thing out of the ordinary that comes to the general public's notice. The reaction of a large percentage of the poplution is to lambast them and generally call them and be nasty about them.
I know everyone can't like everyone and there will always be jealousy, but wouldn't it be nice to hear more honourable critism like " I don't like the bloke/ woman, but hey , good on them for making it."
Keeping the flame suit on for the rest of the day..........got a feeling I shouldn't have started this.
I've just been reading the Robbie Williams thread and it set me thinking.....
Why is it, and this seems to be indigenous to our fair land, that if someone becomes successful -at virtually anything- there is always a mob of people ready to have a go ?
It happens over and over again. As soon as someone either makes a huge amount of money, or appears to be popular with the masses or even just does one good thing out of the ordinary that comes to the general public's notice. The reaction of a large percentage of the poplution is to lambast them and generally call them and be nasty about them.
I know everyone can't like everyone and there will always be jealousy, but wouldn't it be nice to hear more honourable critism like " I don't like the bloke/ woman, but hey , good on them for making it."
Keeping the flame suit on for the rest of the day..........got a feeling I shouldn't have started this.
04 August 2003, 12:30 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: God's promised land
Posts: 80,907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Totally agree. And why do people always seem to revel in other's misfortune - has it always been like that, or only since we've become such a materialistic society?
04 August 2003, 12:42 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah I agree with this one on the whole.
My problem is generally not with the people themselves, but with the way the media behave towards them.
Take Tim Henman for example. A good tennis player, but not a great tennis player. The way the British media go on about him you'd think he was the second coming and when that happens I start to dislike the person which is stupid really as I don't know them. The problem is in some of these cases the people in question start to believe their own hype.
On the subject of Robbie Williams I myself am not a great fan of his music, but I can see the attraction and I wish him all the best. Yeah he's probably a bit of an egotist, but yikes if 135000 people are screaming for your attention wouldn't you be?
Regards,
tiggers.
My problem is generally not with the people themselves, but with the way the media behave towards them.
Take Tim Henman for example. A good tennis player, but not a great tennis player. The way the British media go on about him you'd think he was the second coming and when that happens I start to dislike the person which is stupid really as I don't know them. The problem is in some of these cases the people in question start to believe their own hype.
On the subject of Robbie Williams I myself am not a great fan of his music, but I can see the attraction and I wish him all the best. Yeah he's probably a bit of an egotist, but yikes if 135000 people are screaming for your attention wouldn't you be?
Regards,
tiggers.
04 August 2003, 12:43 PM
#4
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: 52 Festive Road
Posts: 28,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think a lot of it is to do with people only expressing an opinion on famous people. If Joe Bloggs down the road is rich nobody gives a hoot. When someone is rich and famous, they seem to be a fair target.
TBH I think Robbie sucks, but nothing to do with him been famous or rich (I don't think so anyway) - his song writers are recycling old pap from the 1970's..
TBH I think Robbie sucks, but nothing to do with him been famous or rich (I don't think so anyway) - his song writers are recycling old pap from the 1970's..
04 August 2003, 01:03 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
its a jealousy - idolising circle.
people in this land have no idea about getting of their **** and building something for themselves. things like the American dream, or the entrepunreal (sp?) ways of the Australians.....or the Asian's running their own business's are alien to most Brits.
This is good for those who are not like that as you can excell on the back of the millions who dont have the *****.
Anyway...back on track. As they have no ability to it for themselves they spend many hours looking up at those who do....they live their lives through Ok magazine and know more about Posh Spices zit cream than they know about their kids diet.
They flok to see Robbie/etc and scream and shout because its the nearest they will ever get to success themsleves.
and that makes people jealous, because deep down they know it.
I bet Robbie wasnt jumping around at New Kids On The Block concerts...he was prob to busy practicing in front of the mirror......i doubt Branson wish he could be a film star when he grew up...he knew he'd be succesfull in his own right.
However, most people know that they havent got the mindset to excell so they idolise those who do then get depressed that the idol has it all and they have nothing.
sod em, sheep.
Tiggs
people in this land have no idea about getting of their **** and building something for themselves. things like the American dream, or the entrepunreal (sp?) ways of the Australians.....or the Asian's running their own business's are alien to most Brits.
This is good for those who are not like that as you can excell on the back of the millions who dont have the *****.
Anyway...back on track. As they have no ability to it for themselves they spend many hours looking up at those who do....they live their lives through Ok magazine and know more about Posh Spices zit cream than they know about their kids diet.
They flok to see Robbie/etc and scream and shout because its the nearest they will ever get to success themsleves.
and that makes people jealous, because deep down they know it.
I bet Robbie wasnt jumping around at New Kids On The Block concerts...he was prob to busy practicing in front of the mirror......i doubt Branson wish he could be a film star when he grew up...he knew he'd be succesfull in his own right.
However, most people know that they havent got the mindset to excell so they idolise those who do then get depressed that the idol has it all and they have nothing.
sod em, sheep.
Tiggs
04 August 2003, 01:36 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL it nothing to envy. There are plenty of successful people I admire and respect. Robbie Williams is not one of them.
I can't speak for anyone else but from my point of view I've always thought he was a talentless waster from back in the Take That days. To me TT represented the start of the decline of British pop music to the dire level it has reached today. I just can't see any reason to paraise or respect the guy. I certainly has nothing to do with envy. If people want to pay though the nose and sit in endless traffic jams go along and massage his ego so be it. Just don't expect me to come as well. I have better things to do with my free time.
I can't speak for anyone else but from my point of view I've always thought he was a talentless waster from back in the Take That days. To me TT represented the start of the decline of British pop music to the dire level it has reached today. I just can't see any reason to paraise or respect the guy. I certainly has nothing to do with envy. If people want to pay though the nose and sit in endless traffic jams go along and massage his ego so be it. Just don't expect me to come as well. I have better things to do with my free time.
Trending Topics
04 August 2003, 01:46 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: £1.785m reasons not to be here :)
Posts: 6,095
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ unclebuck.No doubt its been said before, but whilst his music and singing talent may not be highly thought of by all, you can hardly call someone who has performed to sell out crowds at Knebworth for 3 nights a "talentless waster"
He's bloody good at something
D
04 August 2003, 01:48 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: £1.785m reasons not to be here :)
Posts: 6,095
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But Andy, perhaps it is.
Would you still think him a **** if he was a "nobody" who didn't happen to have more money than you could only dream about?
Jealousy can be subconcious.....
Would you still think him a **** if he was a "nobody" who didn't happen to have more money than you could only dream about?
Jealousy can be subconcious.....
04 August 2003, 01:51 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyway...back on track. As they have no ability to it for themselves they spend many hours looking up at those who do....they live their lives through Ok magazine and know more about Posh Spices zit cream than they know about their kids diet.
Right on!!!!
The amount of people in the UK whose sole line of chat is about Coronation Street/Eastenders or Hello/OK magazine is bewildering and you just know these people will never ever get off their butts and do anything with their lives.
tiggers.
04 August 2003, 02:45 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol- talentless! how can anyone say that? his business is to attract people to either pay to hear him live or buy his records.....if my business had the same volume of people buying my product i'd be as rich as.....er....a pop star!
if thats talentless then you have some odd ideas about what talent is? do you regard talent as only applying to attributes that you like?
T
if thats talentless then you have some odd ideas about what talent is? do you regard talent as only applying to attributes that you like?
T
04 August 2003, 03:12 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does RW have talent? Let's see... is he really good at playing an instrument? - nope. Is he really good at song writing - err.. nope. Can he sing? - just about, although it's hardly what you could call an accomplished singing voice. Is he good at jumping around winking at cameras and generally showing off - yea he's brilliant at that, but is it a talent? Nah, I don't think so.
Also if you had the record industry marketing machine four square behind you, you probably would sell those kind of volumes of whatever you chose. If anything he is the proof that you can sell any old cr@p if it's marketed well enough. It's got nothing whatever to do with his 'talent'. It can't have, 'cause he hasn't got any.
UB
Also if you had the record industry marketing machine four square behind you, you probably would sell those kind of volumes of whatever you chose. If anything he is the proof that you can sell any old cr@p if it's marketed well enough. It's got nothing whatever to do with his 'talent'. It can't have, 'cause he hasn't got any.
UB
04 August 2003, 03:54 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: God's promised land
Posts: 80,907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my opinion he's definitely talented, but i reckon in future years he'll be saying he had too much fame and fortune to handle wisely at such a young age.
The day his public image changed 180 degrees was when he sang Angels live on Top Of The Pops about four years ago. That was a seminal moment.
It proved he can sing, and it proved he has a cheeky personality. And the British will lap that up all day long.
Although the concert on telly wasn't great in terms of sound quality, he certainly knows how to entertain a crowd. And that, at the end of the day, when you're a performer, is all that matters.
The day his public image changed 180 degrees was when he sang Angels live on Top Of The Pops about four years ago. That was a seminal moment.
It proved he can sing, and it proved he has a cheeky personality. And the British will lap that up all day long.
Although the concert on telly wasn't great in terms of sound quality, he certainly knows how to entertain a crowd. And that, at the end of the day, when you're a performer, is all that matters.
04 August 2003, 04:04 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
talent = a person who possesses unusual innate ability in some field or activity.
i think you'll find he has talent....unless there are other people dominating his field in which case his ability would not be unusual and so would be an expected ability as opposed to a talented one.
some people on here have a talent for masking their jealousy as a talent for spotting the weakness in the singing voice of someone who does not proclaim them selves to be a singer of high quality.
in fact, although im no expert, you may find one of his songs was called "let me entertain you".....im sure it wasnt called "let me sing to you in a highly trained style while playing an instrument with an unusual degree of skill"
Tiggs
i think you'll find he has talent....unless there are other people dominating his field in which case his ability would not be unusual and so would be an expected ability as opposed to a talented one.
some people on here have a talent for masking their jealousy as a talent for spotting the weakness in the singing voice of someone who does not proclaim them selves to be a singer of high quality.
in fact, although im no expert, you may find one of his songs was called "let me entertain you".....im sure it wasnt called "let me sing to you in a highly trained style while playing an instrument with an unusual degree of skill"
Tiggs
04 August 2003, 04:19 PM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Still determined to proove I'm jealous of Robbie Williams LOL Oh well, you carry on bangin' yer drum in the afternoon sun...
Here's someone with more talent in their little finger than RW has in his whole being....
Martin Denny
UB
Oh well, you carry on bangin' yer drum in the afternoon sun...Here's someone with more talent in their little finger than RW has in his whole being....
Martin Denny
UB
04 August 2003, 04:50 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 9,196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As has been said there's plenty of people with more money and more successful than him which i do not think are *****. He just comes across as a tw@ whenever i see him on interviews etc.
Obviously i am jealous of his money! Who wouldnt be, but i wouldnt base my comments on that - i base them on what i see of him.
Andy
Obviously i am jealous of his money! Who wouldnt be, but i wouldnt base my comments on that - i base them on what i see of him.
Andy
04 August 2003, 04:51 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hes 107
UB.....you dont understand talent do you!
talent isnt an ability in an area you like, if your in greenpeace you cant say nuclear bomb builders have no talent. if your into sad, of the wall, left field, wacko music you cant say that those in the mainstream have no talent.
talent is about the person with it....not you.
UB.....you dont understand talent do you!
talent isnt an ability in an area you like, if your in greenpeace you cant say nuclear bomb builders have no talent. if your into sad, of the wall, left field, wacko music you cant say that those in the mainstream have no talent.
talent is about the person with it....not you.
04 August 2003, 05:07 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm 40, and I just happened to be listening to some Latin music this afternoon and Martin Denny was playing as I posted. Have a listen, it is patently obvious who is the better 'entertainer'. Robbie Williams old bilge is clearly inferior.
Sure he's got loads of money. I like loads of money too, but I wouldn't want to be *him*, he's a ***. At least we all seem agreed on that.
UB
[Edited by unclebuck - 04/08/2003 17:09:28]
Sure he's got loads of money. I like loads of money too, but I wouldn't want to be *him*, he's a ***. At least we all seem agreed on that.
UB
[Edited by unclebuck - 04/08/2003 17:09:28]
04 August 2003, 06:58 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unclebuck Out of curiosity downloaded some Martin Denny off wimmx and i think you need and your ears waxing mate (im in my fortieth year as well by the way).
I actually saw Robbie williams live in germany as one of 20 odd other acts at Rockamring festival didnt expect much but i quite enjoyed it (think that was the 16 bittburgers i had drunk maybe???)but i wouldnt rush out to see him.
on the talent front yes there are thousands of better singers/musicians etc out there but they arent all cocky ex members of take that.
No one ever got poor underestimating the gullibility of the general public.
(im in my fortieth year as well by the way).I actually saw Robbie williams live in germany as one of 20 odd other acts at Rockamring festival didnt expect much but i quite enjoyed it (think that was the 16 bittburgers i had drunk maybe???)but i wouldnt rush out to see him.
on the talent front yes there are thousands of better singers/musicians etc out there but they arent all cocky ex members of take that.
No one ever got poor underestimating the gullibility of the general public.
04 August 2003, 07:46 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, maybe not a very good example, but lately to get away from dance music, I have taken a musical journey back in time in search of some quality tunes. And I've found some. Well loads. I reckon the 50s was *the* era for class performers. The likes of (believe it or not) Perry Como, Bing Crosby, Doris Day, Patti Page and many more were just *fantastic* singers, singing wonderful songs. It's that kind of 'the more you listen to it the better it gets' kind of music. The complete antithesis of what Williams stands for.
Anyway for those that are happy being 'entertained' by RW and his old pap, good luck to them. I'll stick with the *real* talent.
UB
[Edited by unclebuck - 04/08/2003 20:09:30]
Anyway for those that are happy being 'entertained' by RW and his old pap, good luck to them. I'll stick with the *real* talent.
UB
[Edited by unclebuck - 04/08/2003 20:09:30]
04 August 2003, 09:16 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Location: Location.
Posts: 3,439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think we are confusing talent with taste.
When I was a kid I condemned my parents music as cr4p compared to what I listened to.
Nowadays my favourites are Louis Prima, Nat King Cole etc and old style blues artists. Guess what my parents used to listen to. Its like a who is the best guitarist argument, ask the experts and even they can't agree.
RW does what he does brilliantly whether I like it or not. His job is to make money for his record label. They have just paid him millions of quid for future albums. They obviously think he has a great talent in the field of moneymaking.
IMO
Alas
When I was a kid I condemned my parents music as cr4p compared to what I listened to.
Nowadays my favourites are Louis Prima, Nat King Cole etc and old style blues artists. Guess what my parents used to listen to. Its like a who is the best guitarist argument, ask the experts and even they can't agree.
RW does what he does brilliantly whether I like it or not. His job is to make money for his record label. They have just paid him millions of quid for future albums. They obviously think he has a great talent in the field of moneymaking.
IMO
Alas
04 August 2003, 09:42 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alas, yes you might be right there. Taste is something you develop over time. The older you get the better your taste becomes. Wonderful artists like those we mentioned above you sort of 'grow into' when you are ready for them. I'm proud to say that I love their music now. Two years ago I would have scoffed at the idea.
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one on here that knows....
BTW this is not the *only* music I listen to. I still have a lot of time for interesting DJ mixing.(Soulwax Outlaws Digweed etc) It's just that when I want *quality* music and performances I know where to turn.
UB
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one on here that knows....
BTW this is not the *only* music I listen to. I still have a lot of time for interesting DJ mixing.(Soulwax Outlaws Digweed etc) It's just that when I want *quality* music and performances I know where to turn.
UB
04 August 2003, 10:13 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Taste is something you develop over time. The older you get the better your taste becomes."
lol- you are more up your own butt than Williams
you mean your taste...not everyone has the same....staggering though that may be!
lol- you are more up your own butt than Williams
you mean your taste...not everyone has the same....staggering though that may be!
07 August 2003, 09:35 AM
#29
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not saying I've 'made it' (not by a long shot) but I have plans to start making huge profits from (secret!) but all I get from some people around me is, "can I come and work for you" or "tell me how you're gonna do it" - **** OFF and go and do something off your own back!
People are just far too fecking lazy and jealous
People are just far too fecking lazy and jealous