Dunk

iTrader: (1)

Is this the case on returning the unsigned NIP ?

Could be good news !!!!

D

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

what this??

IanW

Has the decision been published yet??

IanW

All I can see online is this:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3113107.stm

No mention of any decision as yet.

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

Details from BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/3113107.stm

"A speeding conviction against soccer star Dwight Yorke was "fatally flawed", High Court judges have ruled.
Yorke, a striker with Blackburn Rovers, had told the court he should have been acquitted because there was no signature on a police form about the incident.

On Thursday Mr Justice Owen, sitting in London, agreed a prime facie case against the player was set up on an "erroneous basis".

Yorke, 31, was convicted by magistrates in Manchester of driving his Porsche 911 at 61mph in a 40mph limit area in May 2001."

D

[Edited by Dunk - 7/31/2003 11:53:06 AM]

GaryCat

Sky news article

"A speeding conviction imposed on soccer star Dwight Yorke has been
overturned by the High Court in a case which could affect thousands of other
motorists."



[Edited by GaryCat - 7/31/2003 11:57:05 AM]

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

So if I take my driving licence to the nearest Police station, will they tippex my points out ?

D

NACRO

He didn't sign and isn't going to get done, after all the police have no evidence against him.
If you get a NIP whatever you do fill it in and return it but don't sign it.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

NACRO, like we said all along

Dazza012

Happy days !!!!!!

Adrian F

Bet they are already drafting the new law that makes you sign the form

magepaster

iTrader: (2)

I can`t sign one of those forms, I`m dyslexic and have no idea what I`m reading or writing

NACRO

They are now saying that they will prosecute for not signing the form!

I thought you weren't expected to incriminate yourself? Very confusing.

Old_Fart

Cry babies...you get caught speeding, you know you are breaking the law, take it on the chin, it's your own fault.
No one takes responsibilty for their own actions these days...no wonder Britain is in such a crappy state.
Chuck

NACRO

As I have never been caught speeding by the police I'm not sure what you are trying to get at old fart?

The topic is still open for discussion whether you agree/disagree with law in the UK.

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

So I got caught doing 81 in a 70, with nothing in front of me on a beautiful sunny clear day, it's hardly the world's worst & a hanging offence is it ?

Did I return the form ?
Yes

Was it signed ?
No

Did I take the points ?
Yep

Did I cry ?
Only when writing the cheque out.

I do c.30k miles a year & class it as an occupational hazard, and on the balance of probabilities probably long overdue - but given the chance to get away with it on a technicality - why shouldn't I ?

D

Old_Fart

I've been caught speeding once too. I knew I was in the wrong and deserved what I got as I knew the penalty and decided on balance that I'd risk it anyway. All I'm doing is adding my view, don't take it so personally...I didn't name names. Society is also very self defensive..another reason it's crappy
Chuck

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

If I were to speed on Britains roads I would happily pay a fine for my sins, but you can stick the points up your ***,
what annoys me is that all offences in this country have (to my knowledge) a moral issue behind them,
EXCEPT SPEEDING, there is no moral issue behind it, it is indeed a victimless crime.
2p
Andy

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

The biggest problem with society is that there are differing opinions.
Agree or disagree ?

D

Pete Croney

It will be interesting to see the redraft of the NIP, now that the gov has adopted the EC Human Rights laws

GaryCat

Considering that the NIP return form is, in effect, a confession of the crime, I don't see how the law can force you to sign it. Perhaps one of the cops on here can answer this but IMHO the signature has to be voluntary for it to be admissable in court.

Gary.

speedking

But say you signed it using your name but a completely different signature. Are you legally only allowed to have one signature? How could anyone prove that you had used a 'false' signature? Then in court you say it's obviously not your signature.

Can't see that 'signing' or not makes any difference legally

blueE9

You don't have to sign it at all - you just have to fill it in, but it's inadmissable as evidence without a signature. i sent back my unsigned NIP on the impeccable legal advice of....Superbike, and have so far received several letters suggesting that I take 3 points and £60 or it'll go to court and then it's gone quiet for months. So without tempting fate, I'm a bit hopeful. I'll keep you informed.

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

Wasn't there another similar case running parrallel with this one? and didn't the other guy get done even though he hadn't signed the NIP ? The court took the view that filling the NIP in with his own handwriting that this was good enough. Wasn't it Yorke's agent that had filled in his NIP ?

Quite frankly the Police (Who we pay for) could maybe give an offer of 0 point, but a heavy fine instead. Surely this would amount to more money for them in the long run as most people who get done for speeding generally are unlucky to get done again within the three year period.

Also what has happened to the other option of 0 points but pay to go on an awareness course instead. How come this option is only avaialble periodically ? Hardly fair is it

john_s

iTrader: (1)

I'm not from the legal profession, but doesn't this now mean that there is now case law to support people not being able to be covicted for not signing NIP's that are returned?

John.

-=Buzz=-

and isn't £60 a "heavy fine" for doing say 6 mph over an arbitrary speed limit imposed years ago for Hillman Imps with drum brakes!

FFS, as if that's not bad enough they want it to go up to £95!

If I ever get one of these NIP's I'm going to get someone else to fill it in, and not sign it. If they don't choose to give evidence against me and I don't incriminate myself then they CAN'T prosecute. It's the same for any other crime ffs,if they have no witness, no evidence and no confession they have no case

Little Miss WRX

I got caught speeding twice - yeah, I didn't learn the first time. Not only that, but I got caught within a month of each other.

98 on the motorway......3 points 260 pound fine.
52 in a 40..............3 points and a 252 pound fine.

Both I went through the whole process, arguing my case and in the end accepted both the fines and points that were eventually "awarded" to me (took a year to convict me in both cases).

One thing I am mightily pi55ed off is at one of the Magistrates courts who have FORGOTTEN that I have damn well PAID the fine and send a letter several months later demanding payment!!!!!!!
IMHO a useless bunch of <use your imagination >........

So, being in Australia, it is a little hard to nip down to my bank to find the cheque that I used to pay the fine. I rang the court up explaining that I was in touch with my bank to get proof. (A bank statement wasn't enough because they can't be bothered to trace the cheque number gggrrrrrrr) After AGREEING this with them and explaining that it may take some time due to my location I get a phone call froom the UK saying that a warrant was out in order to retireve payment! FFS.
I get straight on the phone to them and ask what the hell is going on, I get an apology and I tell them yet again what I am doing which is yet again accepted by them.
I am just going to repay the soddin' fine as long as I can get my money back when I finally prove payment. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] If not then I will damn well prove to them that I paid it first time round.
I wouldn't be so bothered, but 260UKP converted to Aus$'s is not nice. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Sorry about the long post.

Adrian F

It is just away of getting money out of the Motorist if it was such a seriuos crime they would have put a much higher level of resources into this 20 years ago when the roads were much more dangerous!!

Also if it is so dangerous to break the posted speed limit how can millions of people get caught each year doing it yet still be alive to pay the fine?

The speed limits are obviously incorrect set and until they are adjusted to reflect modern cars capabilities they will have no crediblilty or support from the motorist.