Offensive weapon
30 July 2003, 01:40 PM
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I'm coming back to the UK for a few weeks and obviously won't be able to bring the pepper spray I have here in France for road rage/carjacking incidents. Can I bring my extendable baton back into the UK without it being classed as an offensive weapon? Or is it a case of defending myself with nothing? I'm so sick of hearing about people being robbed/carjacked in the UK I intend to make a fight of it if anyone tries it on with me.
30 July 2003, 01:49 PM
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Basically you can't have anything that is obviously designed to be used to batter someone with. However if you happen to have a heavy torque wrench or similar tool in your car, that you were carrying around to help a friend change a wheel or something, and someone attacks you, and you instinctively pick it up and hit them with a proportionate and reasonable amount of force, then...
30 July 2003, 02:03 PM
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I would also suggest a common car-related spray - WD-40, Mr Muscle screenclear, touch-up paint - which also just happens to be horrible to get in the eyes or mouth.
Chuckle - can you describe your attacker? Yes officer, he has a sonic blue face and tongue
Hope it doesn't happen for you
Brendan
Chuckle - can you describe your attacker? Yes officer, he has a sonic blue face and tongue
Hope it doesn't happen for you
Brendan
30 July 2003, 02:19 PM
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Thanks guys- I'll be taking my DD maglite and some choice sprays with me. I can't believe that an extendable baton is forbidden! I have a selection of weapons here for self defence including a shotgun I have for hunting! It's easy to forget the restrictions we suffer in the UK (if you are a law abiding citizen that is- otherwise a handgun cost the same as a good night out)
30 July 2003, 02:21 PM
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why dont you just lock your doors...
if someone comes weilding a baton at me, they deserved to get hit with same weapon.
you cant fight fire with fire.
what happens if you attacker has a shooter, the mere fact that you come at him with a baton, could panick him into shooting you.
however, if you are unarmed, he might not consider you a threat.
and just take your car and leave you cacking it on the roadside - (unharmed, may i add)
your car is insured...you only get one life.
i have a 6" scar down the side of my face, from unarmed self defence, however, i could be have easily been dead.
grow up, you are not the terminator.
BB
if someone comes weilding a baton at me, they deserved to get hit with same weapon.
you cant fight fire with fire.
what happens if you attacker has a shooter, the mere fact that you come at him with a baton, could panick him into shooting you.
however, if you are unarmed, he might not consider you a threat.
and just take your car and leave you cacking it on the roadside - (unharmed, may i add)
your car is insured...you only get one life.
i have a 6" scar down the side of my face, from unarmed self defence, however, i could be have easily been dead.
grow up, you are not the terminator.
BB
30 July 2003, 02:26 PM
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your car is insured...you only get one life.
IIRC the pepper spray is classed as a firearm, under section 5 of the firearm act (I am sure BuRR will correct me if I am wrong). I carry a maglight in my car, for the purpose of using it to illuminate things of night, and that is the only reason that I have it in the car.
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30 July 2003, 02:28 PM
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It's the muggings I'm thinking about as much as anything, no way am I going to let some toerag get one over on me. I'm able to defend myself but when some scumbag has a knife and is trying to rob you, best to have some insurance I think.
If I lived in the US I would carry a handgun, that doesn;t make me some kind of vigilante "terminator", in fact I'd say it's socially responsible to defend yourself. Particularly when you consider how much use the police are in those circumstances.
If I lived in the US I would carry a handgun, that doesn;t make me some kind of vigilante "terminator", in fact I'd say it's socially responsible to defend yourself. Particularly when you consider how much use the police are in those circumstances.
30 July 2003, 02:41 PM
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I took up Aikido a while back, it's a martial art but is aimed at self defence, I would recommend it to anyone who feels that they may get physically threatened with anything other than a gun!!!
30 July 2003, 02:52 PM
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\m/ ^_^ \m/
my uncle used to carry around this normal looking umbrella (the usual black businessman type) at the flick of a switch on the handle out would come a 25" blade 
kev
kev
30 July 2003, 02:58 PM
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I box and have done for a long time now so I'm not worried about a bit of a ruck- what concerns me is the amount of knives and worse being used in the UK. You need to strike hard and strike first as far as I can see. There is no way I would be able to let someone take my car keys/rob me without a fight.
30 July 2003, 03:00 PM
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Section 5 (1)
(a) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger.
(ab) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges.
(aba) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus.
(ac) any self-loading or pump-action smooth bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall.
(ad) any smooth bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rim-fire cartridges or a muzzle-loading gun.
(ae) any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus.
(b) any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing.
(c) any cartridge with a bullet so designed to explode on or immediately before impact, any ammunition containing or designed or adapted to contain any such noxious thing as is mentioned in paragraph (b) above and, if capable of being used with a firearm of any description, any grenade, bomb or other like missile, or rocket or shell designed to explode as aforesaid.
Section 5 (1A)
any firearm which is disguised as another object (e.g. walking stick).
any rocket or ammunition not falling within paragraph (c) of subsection (1) of this section which consists in or incorporates a missile designed to explode on or immediately before impact and is for military use.
any launcher or other projecting apparatus not falling within paragraph (ae) of that subsection which is designed to be used with any rocket or ammunition falling within paragraph (b) above or with ammunition which would fall within that paragraph but for its being ammunition falling within paragraph (c) of that subsection.
any ammunition for military use which consists in or incorporates a missile designed so that a substance contained in the missile will ignite on or immediately before impact.
any ammunition for military use which consists in or incorporates a missile designed, on account of its having a jacket and hard core, to penetrate armour plating, armour screening or body armour.
any ammunition which incorporates a missile designed or adapted to expand on impact.
anything which is designed to be projected as a missile from any weapon and is designed to be, or has been, incorporated in -
(1) any ammunition falling within any of the preceding paragraphs; or
(2) any ammunition which would fall within any of those paragraphs but for its being specified in subsection (1) of this section.
[Edited by IanW - 30/07/2003 15:00:53]
(a) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger.
(ab) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges.
(aba) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus.
(ac) any self-loading or pump-action smooth bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall.
(ad) any smooth bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rim-fire cartridges or a muzzle-loading gun.
(ae) any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus.
(b) any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing.
(c) any cartridge with a bullet so designed to explode on or immediately before impact, any ammunition containing or designed or adapted to contain any such noxious thing as is mentioned in paragraph (b) above and, if capable of being used with a firearm of any description, any grenade, bomb or other like missile, or rocket or shell designed to explode as aforesaid.
Section 5 (1A)
any firearm which is disguised as another object (e.g. walking stick).
any rocket or ammunition not falling within paragraph (c) of subsection (1) of this section which consists in or incorporates a missile designed to explode on or immediately before impact and is for military use.
any launcher or other projecting apparatus not falling within paragraph (ae) of that subsection which is designed to be used with any rocket or ammunition falling within paragraph (b) above or with ammunition which would fall within that paragraph but for its being ammunition falling within paragraph (c) of that subsection.
any ammunition for military use which consists in or incorporates a missile designed so that a substance contained in the missile will ignite on or immediately before impact.
any ammunition for military use which consists in or incorporates a missile designed, on account of its having a jacket and hard core, to penetrate armour plating, armour screening or body armour.
any ammunition which incorporates a missile designed or adapted to expand on impact.
anything which is designed to be projected as a missile from any weapon and is designed to be, or has been, incorporated in -
(1) any ammunition falling within any of the preceding paragraphs; or
(2) any ammunition which would fall within any of those paragraphs but for its being specified in subsection (1) of this section.
[Edited by IanW - 30/07/2003 15:00:53]
30 July 2003, 03:06 PM
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b) any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing.
I stand corrected, u learn something new everyday.
So if u carry around ANY canister that can fire/squirt any liquid or gas you will be carring a firearm??.
So, if ur caught with a can of WD-40, hairspray or whatever u are by the terms of the above you are carrying a firearm, women empty ur handbags quick.
[Edited by Dazza01 - 30/07/2003 15:07:57]
I stand corrected, u learn something new everyday.
So if u carry around ANY canister that can fire/squirt any liquid or gas you will be carring a firearm??.
So, if ur caught with a can of WD-40, hairspray or whatever u are by the terms of the above you are carrying a firearm, women empty ur handbags quick.
[Edited by Dazza01 - 30/07/2003 15:07:57]
30 July 2003, 03:37 PM
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I keep a big-boy Maglite in the car and one by the bed in case i have trouble with the car or the power goes out at home.
You cannot be too prepared these days.
You cannot be too prepared these days.
30 July 2003, 03:53 PM
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Dazza01, it says any weapon. It doesn't say any canister or any object. The thing should already be a weapon by design, as pepper spray is. So I'd say WD-40 is safe.
30 July 2003, 03:59 PM
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So, if ur caught with a can of WD-40, hairspray or whatever u are by the terms of the above you are carrying a firearm, women empty ur handbags quick.
However, should you use it on an attacker then it is not being used for the purpose that it was intended and you could be charged with the use of a firearm under section 5(1)(b)
Pepper spray IS designed as a firearm and therefore would only ever be deemed as such.
30 July 2003, 04:01 PM
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Even WD-40 can be classified as an offensive weapon, depending on the intention of the user.
Any innocent item becomes an offensive weapon as soon as the user uses it as one... Think about how many young boys get arrested for swinging their belts over their heads like tomahawks...
I recall that the definition is....
"Any item, made, adapted or intended for use as an offensive weapon, or to cause injury to the person"
Any innocent item becomes an offensive weapon as soon as the user uses it as one... Think about how many young boys get arrested for swinging their belts over their heads like tomahawks...
I recall that the definition is....
"Any item, made, adapted or intended for use as an offensive weapon, or to cause injury to the person"
31 July 2003, 08:52 AM
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Hah ! The A Team !
MacGyver.
VERY offensive bloke. Made the A Team look like a Sunday outing and could make a nuclear warhead with just a soggy match and a bit of string.
Carry a fire extinguisher in the car as well as the Maglite
MacGyver.
VERY offensive bloke. Made the A Team look like a Sunday outing and could make a nuclear warhead with just a soggy match and a bit of string.
Carry a fire extinguisher in the car as well as the Maglite
01 August 2003, 04:59 PM
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Nacro
I think your point is right in that you need if you can to hit the guy once only but hard enough to discourage further attack on yourself. Make sure he is facing you too. I can't think a court would blame you for that. I don't think the law says you cannot defend yourself from injury yet anyway!
Les
I think your point is right in that you need if you can to hit the guy once only but hard enough to discourage further attack on yourself. Make sure he is facing you too. I can't think a court would blame you for that. I don't think the law says you cannot defend yourself from injury yet anyway!
Les
01 August 2003, 05:09 PM
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Hate to put a dampner on all this , but have you not read the papers today ?
It seems that if you have a remotely desirable car, your'e not even safe at home any longer.
Couple of yobs smashed in the front door of a semi at 3 am and forced the folks to hand over their keys to their Volvo and Beemer 4WD, or, they threatened to decapitate the little daughter!
So , it doesn't really matter if you go out prepared or not, they now come calling door to door !
It seems that if you have a remotely desirable car, your'e not even safe at home any longer.
Couple of yobs smashed in the front door of a semi at 3 am and forced the folks to hand over their keys to their Volvo and Beemer 4WD, or, they threatened to decapitate the little daughter!
So , it doesn't really matter if you go out prepared or not, they now come calling door to door !
01 August 2003, 05:13 PM
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Dont forget to modify any WD40/hairspray (And I am sure that some of the woofders here use it...the other lot from the scoobyball are mainly bald so might have a problem getting away with it.)
With a small lengh of straw etc cut to about 1 inch length and glued in. Gives a much better "shot"
With a small lengh of straw etc cut to about 1 inch length and glued in. Gives a much better "shot"
01 August 2003, 05:21 PM
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Apparition thats why I, like many people, keep certain items in my property. I don't take them out of my property, never have done and never will so wont be breaking any laws. My gf was horrified when she found out I had one of the items. I am not a criminal and will never use if for that purpose, but if someone breaks into my property or tries to take my car/motorbike then I will use my belongings on them with no hesitation.
The law in this country is a joke. I fully back what Tony Martin did and if I was in the same position I would do exactly the same. Anyone who burgles/steals gives up their rights as far as I am concerned and they deserve what they get.
The law in this country is a joke. I fully back what Tony Martin did and if I was in the same position I would do exactly the same. Anyone who burgles/steals gives up their rights as far as I am concerned and they deserve what they get.