Regacy

Two items of evidence and a question

Item 1
A friend’s son asked for some advice recently. He has just passed his driving test and wants to buy a car. Not a problem, he has his heart set on a Pug 205. Nothing sporty just a bog standard 1.4. The problem is insurance. He has shopped around for a month now and the best he’s got it £1,700 third party fire and theft.

Item 2
My local newspaper has started a ‘name and shame’ section detailing general misdemeanour crimes from the local court. Most of these are multiple offences, driving without a license whilst over the limit whilst on probation for drug offences, so doesn’t give you much confidence that the legal system is having much effect on these people. However there were 4 cases of driving without insurance. In all 4 cases the penalty was the same, three points and a £250 fine.

Question
On the basis that the premium is 7 times the penalty……..
How do we convince young drivers that they must insure their cars?

LG John

A fair point well made Try explaining to them the world of sh*t they will be in if they knock someone over and kill them without insurance Suddenly £1700 seems very worthwhile paying!

Chris_S199

Also, less significant than Saxo's point, but these days if you get points during the probationary 2 years after passing your test you get a ban (and have to take a retest?) automatically. Points/ban are going to make insurance that much harder to get next time round

Chris

fitzscoob

either way, insurance for young drivers on realistic cars is now become a joke.

jasey

I'm with saxo on this one - you friend's son should sell his car and start nicking them - I'm sure the penalties for stealing cars are much less than for actually trying to own and drive one within the law .

camk

If you cause a major accident with no insurance you'll be paying it back forever, essentially your whole life is buggered.

XRS

Firstly, your friend's son should take Pass Plus. J.r-xrs did this and got a BIG refund on his first year's premium on his Clio 1.4. You do need to choose the car carefully (the 1.4 cost the same as the 1.2) but Norwich Union Direct made the refund as soon as he passed PP. Net premium well under a grand.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Simple - just look up the cost of having an accident uninsured.

I agree that insurance - especially at that age - is hugely expensive and can seem poor value. Sadly the only way round it seems to be to build up an NCB on a cheaper car; I did my first few years in a 900cc Fiat Panda - crappy by any standards, but group 1 insurance and still better than catching the bus. I recall paying about £300 for 3rd paty only cover.

For what it's worth, I only pay about £300 on my Westfield, despite it being faster and a whole lot more dangerous than the Scooby for which I pay £850. Were it not for the fact that I doubt any 17 year old with a Westy would live to see his 18th birthday, I'd recommend it as a good way to build up an NCB.

Regacy

Andy, just out of interest.......
Just got a quick quote for a 900cc Panda for 17 year old student living in London (as my friends son is)
Third party fire and theft cover costs £2,076.90
I fear you may be slightly out of touch with what's happened in the insurance market in the last few years!
r

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Jeez... that hurts. Thankfully I haven't had to ask for a quote on a Panda for a good few years

Living in London can't help, and I did find it significantly cheaper to go without fire & theft cover too. (Who's going to steal one anyway?)

Do premiums for young drivers vary between companies like they do for performance cars? I've been quoted silly money for the scooby from companies that don't really want the business. Have you considered a limited mileage policy? Maybe it would even be worth trying to be a named driver on someone else's policy for a while, even though it delays getting your own NCB?

pugoetru

when i passed my test i had a fiat 131 sport bright orange 2litre twin cam engine £600 third party fire +theft and that was £500 more than my dad paid for the same car!probably cost 3 grand to insure now!

pugoetru

you could always ask the brokers what car will be the cheapest then go get one of them!

dsmith

I ran a 1973 MG Midget at university (1275cc, Kent Cam, K&N Filters, Sports Exhaust) which could hld its own (up to a point) with warm hatches of the time (Std Nova SR etc). Classic insurance meant I was paying less insurance than friends with 1.0 minis/metros. Also any part - could be had on your doorstep the evry next day. - V cheap motoring (until it needs welding )

Deano

drb5

iTrader: (4)

my brother, who is 27 in december paid £900 last year to drive a white, 5 door, 1.5 turbo diesel vauxhall corsa! bog standard it was. feckin ugly too!

Johnny50

Have to agree to a certain point, it's ridiculous paying £1700.

But what happens when(if)he gets caught ? £250 fine..ok, still cheaper than £1700, the say he gets caught again ? Another £250 and maybe a ban ? Or an even heftier fine ??

Still worth paying the full amount i rekon. We've all had to do it.

SiDHEaD

My 17yr old (provisional license only) friend just insured a 1.4 citroen AX for about 1000 at Tesco, they do tend to like youngsters - that's why i'm with them

Andy

beemerboy

if the answer is not blatantly obvious here, they should not be driving at all.

i had to pay over the top premiums when i was 17
i was a lowly ford apprentice on £61 a week, and my MK1 Mex cost me £350 to insure TPF&T

didnt stop me paying it... - we all had to!!
along with road tax and mot's.

driving, like everything today is expensive...'nuff said.

Dazza

scoobydooooo

the courts up your way are lenient , where i live you are guaranteed at least 6 points and normally 9 , but to me it would be immoral not to have insurance !

south-star

Consciounce.

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Sounds very leniant. Over here, no insurance almost carries a mandatory ban. Usually around 3 months.
Prices here are way higher than on the mainland too. I am not surprised there are so many people driving without it. The government should take a more positive attitude to the whole thing, and put basic 3rd party cover on the price of petrol. Its the only way to ensure that any vehicle used on the road, has insurance.
The Government are as much the criminal as the insurance companies. In some ways, I see the motorist as the victim.
They should clamp down on false claims too, try to combat car crime, both which cost insurance companies, and us millions every year.
A young driver over here will be lucky to pay anywhere near £1000 for even the smallest sh1theap. More usually over £1500.
Plenty of companies wont even quote them.

Regacy

The problem becomes acute when you can't afford the premium.
At which point the choice is rather more stark...
Drive without insurance V don't drive at all
It's a difficult decision to make with 17 year old logic and judgement.

beemerboy

get a motorbike!!! sorted!!!

BB

or get the car registered and insured in mums name and become a named driver....

Witchfinder

Remember, the premium is also affected by the security features of the car - for example, if the car doesn't have an immobiliser as standard, then the cost is going to be very high, simply because the car would be so easy to steal.

Sometimes it's worth looking somewhere in the middle and seeing what compromise you can make between an old banger and something relatively new.

what would scooby do

Once caught without insurance (IN10 IIRC) just wait and see how much the premiums will be next time - 90% of insurance companies will not touch anyone with an INxx on their driving licence..

Regacy

beemerboy, that sounds interesting......
Do bike no claims count for car insurance?
Could be a cunning plan here, £50 moped in the garage for a couple of year whilst driving on parents insurance policy.
Three years later, bingo.
Hefty no claims discount and no law breaking in the mean time.

Regacy

beemerboy?

Rich and Mini

I'm 18 and pay £2045 fully comp on a 2001 Saxo VTS (grp.14), worth in the insurer's eyes, approximately £7k.

Had my licence 19 months, one no fault accident, no NCB (was on my mum's insurance on my first car, still paid just under a grand fully comp on a 1275cc, stage 1 Mini with loads of mods).

Insurance is a joke, mine isn't even for 12 months, it's for 10! Although I get a years no claims at the end of it. Got a fairly well paid job for someone my age, so I can just 'bout afford it all and still have some left for other stuff.

Never ever considered not having any insurance though! I felt bad doing it in my mum's name!

Rich

mj

Rich and mental ,

Is your saxo that important to you that it warrants over 2k premiums?

Put it another way - buy an old ****ter, insure it third party for say what £500 ish ?? - (long time since I had my own policy).

Then the £1500 per year you save can go toward a proper car (sccob/beemer/whatever for instance ) in say 4 years when you hit 22 and it will be worth spending say 1.5-2k a year on insurance.

Don't take this the wrong way, Saxos are ok, but are they 2K's worth of ok?

just my thoughts,

cheers,

mike.

SiDHEaD

My brandnew Zetec-S (only group 8E) was £2010 for me to insure at 19 with no ncb and a fault accident.

My zetec-s wasn't really, so i got a scoob Can't have PPP till insurance renewal though, when that fault claim will be off record

Thing is the difference between the z-s and the scoob on the insurance was only a few hundred. They just whack an initial huge amount of for being young (and for my claim) and then the insurance group modifies it a bit on top. This is why youngsters will pay £1k on a piece of sh@t!

Andy

[Edited by SiDHEaD - 7/9/2003 9:02:55 PM]