Markus

Not trying to steal any of Miss Kitty's thunder, but thought I'd start a new thread on my thoughts of reloaded, mainly as I'm going to mention plot points and thus don't want to upset anyone.

If you have NOT seen the film then do NOT read this thread, there WILL be spoilers in here.

So, onto the meat.

What did I think? Well, rather good actually, I had succumb to some of the hype, and I was not looking forward to one particular scene. I refer to the love scene between Neo and Trinity. Why? Well, I felt The Matrix was a great film, really 'hardcore' if you will, right up until the whole "Neo you can't be dead, I love you" bit, uuurrrghhhy, purrrrleaaasseee, this is not the place for this, kinda spoiled it for me, but then, it was only a few mins, then back to a nice hardcore finish, so that was ok I guess. So, did I cringe at the love scence in reloaded? Nope, I thought it was done very well and was pleasantly suprised.

So, what are my thoughts and theories on things? Well, bearing in mind we still have Revolutions to come, which could answer some or all of these, but we'll overlook the future for now

Tank, what happened to Tank? Dozer, we know he was killed by Cypher, but as far as I'm aware Tank was still very much alive at the end of the matrix, so how did he die and when? OK, could simply be the actor did not wish to return to the role or the brothers W decided to have a different charater, but a bit of explanation would be nice.

Are the 'twins' dead? we saw that when they went into 'flicker' mode they could heal themselves, but there's no sign of them doing that when the 4x4 blows up, so are we to assume they are dead? Pity if they are, they were rather cool characters and did add something over the agents.

The Architecht, OMG! now, did anyone tune out a little bit whilst his monologue was going on? I think I might have a bit, it did seem to kill the ***** out action pace of the film, but, it was needed and did explain a whole lot of things about the matrix, and the 5 before it, and how The One is part of the system and basically the prophecy is totall bull. Neo seemed kinda upset about that

I've seen some talk about Neo bringing back Trinity, well, they are still in the matrix at that point and Neo is, in the matrix, some form of deity, or so it would be believed, so yes, makes sense he can do that, and that's fine by me, save the one you love and can't be without, slushy? maybe a tad, but hey, what the hell, even deitys need someone special to keep the ol plugs warm at night

Now, onto the biggie, the ending, where they are out of the matrix and neo swats the squiddy. Interesting non? Raises the question, are they still in the matrix, even though they are not? My thoughts, well, I think they ARE inside the matrix, and 'their' matrix, is simply a maxtris inside a matrix. Why does this appeal to me? well, let's see what we know. the first matrix failed, both Smith and the Architect tell us this, our frail human minds could not deal with the perfect world, we require misery and hardship to deal with life, and here is my point, control, it's about control. You are 'freed' from the matrix, so you fight against the system to free others so you can all be free. Well, wouldn't the perfect control system be one where you 'think' you are free, therefore you revolt against the, in essense 'fake' matrix, and you don't for a single second, think that you're not free, that you're still inside the matrix, you hust have the illusion of being free. And I think Neo might have realsied this, as he said "It feels different" just before he killed the sentienel, he could feel it in the same way he feels the matrix and the agents, so, it possibly stands to reason that everyone who is free, or thinks they are free, are not. This could also explain how Smith could exit the matrix and inhabit a 'real' person, the only survior from the attack on Zion.

So, food for thought, non? The matrix within a matrix thing is a bit naff in some respects, a bit of a Dallas moment, but, well, guess we shall have to see what the final chapter brings, and it does look good, yes, I did stay until right after all the credits to see the mini trailer for Revolutions.

Brendan Hughes

If there is a matrix inside a matrix, then I think you'll find this trilogy turns out to be a very expensive and long (but indeed pretty) rehash of the Thirteenth Floor.

Confusing, as I believe the 13th Floor came out AFTER the first Matrix...

Oh, and may I add to my post in TK's thread that I did think the love story was sweet, even if the philosophy and geekism pissed me off.

Markus

As I said, very Dallas like, and I really don't think the brothers W would do that to 'us' then again, it could all be a dream. I did vision, last night, that the final scene, maybe post credits would be a repeat of the scene where Neo wakes up after being with the Agents for the first time, and thinks it is all a dream. If he walks out of the shower and finds trin in bed, I'm gonna shoot someone! lol

Well, only a few months to wait and see the conclusion

LG John

In my mind there is no better control than a matrix within a matrix - its basically two levels of defense. Furthermore, there can only ever really be one 'The One' and the prophesy might still be true as Neo seems to be the only 'true one' that can tell the difference between the two matrix's and hence may be the one to bring them both down! I believe in the next film Neo will wake up for real and quite possibly wake others while he is at it! In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if the film ends with Neo waking up and the audience left wondering if he's properly awake or just entered a third matrix level.

Jodster

Agree with Marcus 100 percent. The question is, what state is the real, real world in?

With all the exposition out of the way in this film, hopefully Revolutions will be wall to wall carnage.

I was disappointed with the film overall but have enjoyed many debates I've had about its meaning ever since.

Chris L

Sal and I saw it last night (in a monster cinema in Basingstoke - very impressive) - we both liked the film. It is always difficult to live up to the hype and this made a pretty good job of it. It does strike you as a two hour trailer for the third film though!

We had similar thoughts that perhaps they were still in the Matrix, but I guess we will find out soon enough!

Damn good entertainment and the special effects were very impressive - especially the two trucks colliding in the car chase

Chris

Mycroft

Rubbish... white haired guy talked bolleaux for 5 minutes.. what was that crap???

Too much hype no substance... basically it looks like they had enough for one more movie and split it into 2 to get even more from the success of the first.. spit on the Wacowsky? Bros for that sort of rip-off...

Plantie

Enjoyed the film but was dying to go to the toilet so didn't see the preview to the next one!

May have to go watch it again....

boxst

Hello

My problem was when they raided "The Source". I thought it was a preview for the next movie, but no it was just over really quickly and then (as mentioned above) the boring architect person.

Still, an interesting ending and I can't wait for the next one...

Steve.

Barking Scooby

<enjoyed very much, the white twins were good, but love scenes were not needed IMHO. Will watch again and buy when it comes out on DVD.

A good film... enough to warrant the £5.10 entry lol

LanciaChris

Just got back this minute. Phew. good stuff. Some things didnt go the way I expected them to mind.

Smith has got to be much more important than even this film made out. I was surprised that the scene with neo fighting many smiths wasnt interrupted by many normal agents fighting both neo and smith.

The twins were a bit of an odd one too. Somebody clarify - all those he fights there are essentially old versions of agents, retired cos they were too lethal. That seems a bit odd because the current agents are easily disposed of by neo, but to anyone else they are death on a stick, and the same thing appears to go for the old versions. So whats the deal there? Why 'upgrade' when its something that does exactly the same thing?

As for the ending, I have no original takes on that as yet, except that I see smith as the key, as he said he has been around since the first matrix and as he has experience of all of them, he probably knows how to break out of all of them. But im not sure exactly how that works yet.

P1Fanatic

I personally didnt enjoy it as a film. I thought the majority of fight scenes, the scene with the guy swearing in french and the architect just went on for way too long. Stupid things like Neo fighting 100+ smiths then flying away 10 mins later - why the hell not do that to start with?

That said Ive never seen so much talk after a film other than for the star wars films. Everyone is forming their own conclusions of what is what in the matrix. For that the Wachowski (sp?) brothers have got it spot on.

Agree with this one. Neo finally realising that Zion etc isnt actually outside of the matrix and therefore his powers still apply.

Simon.

LanciaChris

Oh yeah, and definately with the wtf, tank was fine at the end of the last film thing.

Old_Fart

Garbage film, the chick in the white rubber dress was the only bit worth seeing.
Chuck

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

There can only be one Matrix - the clue is in the title....



...it would have been called Matrices otherwise

Diablo

Yeah, but one matrix can have many levels

P1Fanatic

lol here we go again

Simon.

TelBoy

When will the first "I understood The Matrix" t-shirts be appearing??

Markus

Chuck, good point about Persephone, very nice dress.

Pete Croney

We thought the same Markus. The Smith that sabotaged Zion was effectively still in the Matrix, but the other side of some sort of firewall.

As for the bird in the white rubber dress (has Telboy seen the dress yet?)... OMG

http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.co...persephone.jpg

[Edited by Pete Croney - 5/27/2003 2:54:11 PM]

TelBoy

Nice one Pete, that deserves pride of place on a new page!

Old_Fart

Hubba hubba!
Hopefully see ya Essex schlaags at the Halfway House this month.
Might arrive in leather myself ... running in a motorbike
Cman

scooby_si

I thought when white dress was guna snog him there was sum sort of thing going on with her lippy so i guess that's just me being paranoid so ladies keep trying yer luck with me lol.
I did actually like the architect thing it's not often u get dialogue in a film that genuinely u have to concentrate on to keep up with & while it may seem shyte to sum it covered many of the questions the whole matrix phenomenon throws up & hey it's not my fault i was the only ONE intelligent enough to keep pace with it lmao
Big dotto thought on the inner thing & generally i was initially a bit disappointed with the to be continued thing but tiz all good although leaves a lot of preasure on the third to have an ending
Biggest dissapointment:
















Having to sit there doing the lalala i can't hear you hands thing before the film started because of the T3 advert which i dont wana c at all because i lurve the terminator films & dont wana spoil ANYTHING! I still think i looked intelligent thou
Si (lalala i cant hear u lol)

Pete Croney

Another one of Miss Bellucci, Tel

TelBoy

Doesn't get much better than that mate!

lpski1

I dont think it is a matrix within a matrix, if they say they are on the 5th one which is started by 26 people ( i think) because these people refuse to be controlled. Why not just unplug 26 pods and kill the people, wouldnt need to create this program to keep them happy.

Surely with all them people and the energy from their brains, 26 odd less people isnt going to knacker the machines power supply ?

Pete Croney

The fact that this is the 5th incarnation of the Matrix may relate to the Mayan Sun Stone. The Sun Stone is said to document the 5 periods of life on Earth, which each reached an advanced technological state and were then ended in a cataclismic way, self cleansing way. From each, there were just enough survivors for life to restart, but with an effective system re-boot as the information they retained was lost over time.

We are living the 5th and final sun, set to end Dec 2012.

Its a very interesting subject if you fancy some diverse research. Theories says that the pyramids of Egypt and Maya were a method of conveying the information from the last great age, to us. It is designed as a massive mathematical puzzle so that we do not discover the information until we are advanced enough to understand its meaning. Also, mathematics is the only langauge that is universally readable.

The theory cannot be proven/disproven as the Giza monuments are controlled by a Dr Hawass who says that they were built by Egyptian peasants as burial chambers and that's that.

How about that for a tangent then?

Oh, and Persephone (the one in the pictures above) was the Queen of the Underworld in Greek mythology, married to Hades.

LG John

You're not thinking like a machine mate. You're applying human logic, i.e. its too much hassle, kill them it won't make a difference. A machine would assess if the power required to control those 26 people is less than the power generated by them in which case they would be in a 'power profit'. If this is the case a machine will do it in the quest for maximum efficiency.

LG John

Check out the following theory offered by a lad on the saxosportsclub site. A belter of theory IMHO


Ok, my theory, ill try to keep it brief but it answers just about every question that I have come across so far. We can guarentee we are all wrong, cos the next movie is sure to throw something else into the story to twist everything... but here goes.



1) 20th Century earth and Zion are both the same Matrix, its not so much a matrix in a matrix, they are just different parts of the same one. That way, when someone is going to die becasue they reject the normal matrix (20th Century earth), the machines let the person `think` they have escaped... and it just puts them intoa different part of the matrix, ie, Zion. Therefore, Zion is in the Matrix. This explans how Neo killed the sential things near the end, it also explains how agent Smith managed to be there. Thats kinda a given, just about everyone has said that. However, no one seems to have mentioned this one...

2) Neo is NOT real. Despite the whole `he is only human` thing... the archutect (aka the Cornol from KFC) tells him that he is an abnormality in the mathmatical equasion that is the matrix. Now, if he is an abnormality, he cant be human becasue in order to be an abnormaility he HAS to be part of the code. This means that Neo himself is a controll mechanism, which in turn means that he is part of the machine, which means.... he isnt `real`, he is just a program. However, we also know that sometimes programs can go wrong, they start thinking for themselves and acting upon that (things like the Oracle talks about, and the Oracle herself)... therefore, Neo is clearly one of these programs that has gone wrong and is thinking for himself, hence why he chose Trinity over the human race. Its a fair guess to make that the Neo program has the power to change things as the machines made him `the one`, which means that mabye he can beat the computers even though he is one. What does this meane.... it means that Neo has to make a decision, himself or Morphious (if anyone remembers from the first movie.). The Oracle knows all, she told Neo he would have to pick between him and Morphious`s life.... we all thought that was in the first movie in the walls, but it couldnt have been cos both lievs and the Oracle knows all... therefore, I think... in the next movie Neo will have to pick beteen himself (and the continuation of the matrix), OR kill himself along with the matrix (cos he is only a program) but in the process bring down the machine.

Pete Croney

Makes sense.

Also, when Neo and the Councillor are talking on the walkway, the Councillor points to the water purification machine and says "we are still slaves to machines, just different machines".