LG John

Right, our landlord has decided to sell our flat and has been round a lot to prepare it for sale. During this time I've been talking to him and he told me he'd be sticking it on the market for a fixed price of about £70-75k. This immediately got me interested due to the assurance of a fixed price. I said I'd consider buying it off him and have arranged for a survey to be done (tomorrow).

Since I told him about the survey he's been a little strange and everytime we talk he says things, dropping hints, etc that he wants way more than 70-odd thousand. He know's I've not bought a property before and I think he sees me as the daft we laddy. My primary reason for buying the flat is that it has a great location, is spacious but needs a lot of modernisation. This means it could be a great property developing oppertunity or even a good flat to tidy up and continue to live in.

Today he was saying that surrounding flats have been going for £80k and that he'd have to see the right money for it, etc. He also asked my flatmate about our earnings - I just can't figure exactly what his game is and what he's driving at

He's a property developer and has bought a guesthouse at great cost so he's selling his portfolio of property to fund it. I originally figured that he was going to put it in at a fixed price to be sure he got X amount for it, as X amount is what he needs. Now he seems to be trying to suck me into biding war with just me and him

I want the flat but I don't want to pay over the odds for it. Its hard to decribe the way he's acting but he's defo trying to screw me somewhere! This seems strange as a direct sale to me saves him a lot of money in advertising, etc, saves him a lot of time and I don't have a property that I need to sell. I'd have thought he'd jump at the chance Has anyone got tips on how to deal/negotiate with this kind of person. He could put the property on the free market but I know he needs a quick, clean sale and also that anyone looking at the flat wouldn't be massively impressed and would need to see the 'potential in it' (i.e. its not brilliant to live in to be honest).

Thoughts/suggestions

s-man

well Sax mate - as you know I'm currently playing the 'property game' myself and it aint fun

As far as I can tell Edinburgh and the surrounds are defying the whole property market slowing phenomenon being reported everywhere else and basically prices are still silly in terms of the Offers Over price vs actaul selling price. A mate at work who buys and sells a fair amount reckons on adding 20k to any Offers Over amount for the likely valuation figure and then you usually have to add a lump on top to stand a chance of getting anything.

So basically what I am saying is that its a sellers market and he has more than likely had a look at the market locally and come up with the same plan as all the estate agents! They are telling people to undervalue their property with a ludicrously low Offers Offer figure on the premise that they'll get lots of interest and then coin it from someone who wants to beat all the other notes on the property...

As far as I can tell no solictor will tell a client to sell @ fixed price just now either so he is more than likely backtracking on that idea so he can make as much as he can. Oh yeah and as for the nick of the place...don't read too much into it - theres some scary money getting made on similarly scary properties...

good luck!

s

47 NAT

Whenever people come round to view the flat dont forget to mention that you cant wait for it to sell. Due to very noisy neighbours, damp, baliffs always knocking on the door asking for people who use to live there and are now dead!!! Get the picture?

In failing that its down to you as hes probably had time to dwell on it. BUT if you do go another £5k the chances are you might have to go more to cure his thirst for money.

Morally its wrong, but financially its stands to reason....

Nath

imlach

As I've said on here many times before, when we bought last year in Edinburgh, we ended up paying £100k over asking price, and the place was a dump that needed everything done. There were 16 offers, and 2 were within £1k of me.
Luckily, I only paid £14k over valuation (ie, asking price was nuts - way too low).

Another 2 properties we looked at and bid for were also both dumps (and by dump, I mean serious damp, roof leaking, floors missing, not been touched since 1930), but both in desirable areas (Trinity and Craiglockhart).

One went for £100k over VALUATION (not asking price) and needed £70k or repairs, and the other went for £90k over valuation (£340k) and has since had loads of work done - prob taking it up to £400k on a house that was on the market at o/o 190k!!!

ie, CONDITION OFTEN HAS LITTLE EFFECT ON SELLING PRICE IN EDINBURGH!!!!!

Recent house purchases by younger colleagues at work point to first time flats still going for £85k for 1 bedroom tenemant flats....20-30k or so over asking
and usually 10-15% over valuation.

If you get the survey done, offer him the survey price first, then 5% over at most to try and tempt him....is it a modern flat (less desirable)? If modern (70's or 80's), then may not reach the premium. People want old and traditional.

Your solicitor can give you a list of sale prices over the last 10 years for that street and any surrounding street which shows the selling prices. He should do this free. If not, use my solicitor :-)

Do NOT pay any more than the last sale noted for a similar place.

Dougster

Tell 'em about the surge every time you flush the toilet.

Brun

Neil Smalley

Kenny,

Why is he selling his portfolio?
Also, estate agents only suggest the asking price, not the real value of the property. The mortgage company valuers do that, in conjunction with the land registry.

Check out the new land registry site where for a couple of quid fee, you can learn pretty much everything you need to know about the place
http://www.landregisteronline.gov.uk

LG John

Cheers guys He's selling his house and the flats he rents to buy a big guesthouse that he intends to run. I think this was the reason for his initial thoughts of a fixed price as he needs to get X amount to go towards the guesthouse and I'm pretty sure he needs it quick and on a hassle free basis. This is why I thought we could work together to benefit us both!

Neil Smalley

Kenny,

What other houses is he selling?

PPPMAT

I am a property agent (commercial) so come across this sort of situation from time to time.

Presumably you will need a mortgage, therefore the flat will have to be valued by the lenders appointed agents. This means that whatever price you agree, the property will have to value up from a lending point of view.

So........the thing to do is to arrange for 3 valuers to assess the flat (as if they were going to put it on the market) - ask for realistic values, then agree with your landlord that you will pay the average price between the three figures given.

Your argument is that whatever you pay, it will have to be fair as it won't value up for the mortgage.

Voila......thank you and goodnight.....

SiPie

Tell him I'll break both his arms and grind the fragmented sections of bones from the open fractures together until he drops his price to what is mutually acceptable

I've just completed a negotiations skills course at work

Can you tell ?

fast bloke

He is just trying to get as much as he can for it - Offer him 70 and don't tell him your earnings. If he tells you someone else has put in an offer tell him you can't get a bigger mortgage. (Once he knows your earnings he will know how much of a mortgage you can get.) Put the pressure back on him by telling him that the offer will only stand for a week as you are looking at another property for 70 and cannot afford to lose it waiting on him

3times

Saxo,

Unsure of the rules North of the Border but surely he would need to evict you if he wanted to sell it on. This could take up to 6 months (I know as I have just done it). It would therefore be in his best interest to sell it to you so as the sale would go thru quicker.

Even if he were to sell to another landlord most mortgage lenders like the property to be empty on completion, depending on the lease.

LG John

He has to give us two months notice to get us out but hasn't done so in writing yet. He said if we told the agency that we wanted to leave (1 month notice) he'd let us stay the other month at a reduced rate (no agency cut). I'm not sure I trust him so if things go bad, I'll make him give us the proper notice so we don't end up on the street.

I'm pretty sure he already knows my earning as I keep my payslips in a file box thats in my room. He was painting there the other day and I've noticed the top of the box is now open What he doesn't realise is that my parents are interested in buying into the property with me and will be stumping up a significant amount of cash

I've been thinking about it more today and I'm pretty sure I'll not offer a stupid amount over value (if much/any at all). He wants a quick, no hassle and easy sale to move onto his next project. I can give him that but I'm not going to do that and pay the extra cash that he might get (along with the uncertainty) of putting on the open market for however many weeks/months it takes to sell - time he doesn't have. Ultimately if he doesn't want to sell it to me at a reasonable price then he can give us our two months notice and we'll move on to pastures new

It strikes me that he's gotten greedy! Initially he was thinking, 'if I can get a quick 70k for the flat and Xk for my current house then I'm sorted for the guesthouse and we can get up and running' Now, he seems to be thinking if I can get a quick 80+k from these mugs I can get up and running with the guesthouse as planned and be up to the tune of £Xk....it just doesn't work that way pal!

gregh

why not have a friendly chat with him?

Tell him you are willing to buy quickly at the previously agreed 70k price, he then doesn't have to spend money with estate agents etc and hopefully you both win.

Greg

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

The landlords in the business, so he knows what its worth, but he also needs a quick sale.

But it seems you're not sure how much its worth. Either grab a property paper and make a rough guess based on surrounding prices, or go to the local estate agents and ask how much the flats in your block go for, considering its condition. Or you could spend £100 and find out independantly that way - also you'll find how poor a condition its really in. If your landlord uses one of 'his' surveyors to value it then it may be - ahem, biassed.

Then its a case of what you want to give him for it. If its worth 77k, thats what he'll get going through an agent, its probably the same as 76k if he goes direct to you. Is it a sellers or a buyers market? if the flat is crappy and its a buyers market then it could stay on the market for a while. If he really needs his money quick then its worth dropping 1-2k. Let him know that you know stuff like this. Remind him you'll have no chain and tell him you want to go straight away. Your offer will be more credible if you show him an independent valuation and the reasons (that he knows already) why your offer is lower than it, also tell him you've been approved by a mortgage lender and you've got a solicitor that can get the ball rolling ASAP - even if you haven't

TBH if he's messing you about now, be prepared to be messed around all the way..

Justin

LG John

That was the plan! Seems he's trying to modify it to ensure he gets his quick sale and a premium price

I'm in the flat now waiting for a valuer from Colleys to come round. They are approved by several of the big lenders so that valuation will give me a starting point for negotation. If the truth be known I'm pretty hacked off at him for saying stuff/dropping hints and try to discuss it with me before today's valuation. I made it clear I wanted to get it valued and then arrange a meeting from there!

imlach

Saxo boy - where is the flat?
Maybury? Is it a modern one?

You want a valuer who values low - the one in Craiglockhart
does.

LG John

North Gyle Grove, 2 mins walk to the Casino. Its a horrible (from the outside) 60/70s flat but in a very nice area with lovely grounds and detached bungalows around. The location is brilliant to be honest. There is another flat up for sale in the block but its a much bigger 3-bed and nicer inside. Offers over 79k if I recall

imlach

<cough> nice area? :-)

Hehe....suppose it is.....miles from busy main roads :-)

Still, does have good shops nearby (Gyle, 24hr Tesco).

LG John

Thats the one Our flat is the one on the ground floor corner nearest the camera (to the right of centre). The building looks horrible from the outside but there are a few of these blocks of flats slap bang in the middle of nice quiet detached and semi-detached houses. Also backs onto a brand new housing development to the north. Best yet, there are no neds in the area! There are good bus links into town, lots of nearby shops, the gyle can be walked to easily, the airport it 8mins, the bypass 2mins, out of edinburgh by the FR bridge or M8 in no time. The location is spot on, hence my interest

cheers for your input by the way imlach

imlach

Some of the guys who have responded - please remember that this is SCOTLAND - we don't have the crappy estate agent system up here......valuations are done by surveyors...at min £100 a piece......

The land registry is ENGLAND & WALES!


[Edited by imlach - 5/6/2003 10:33:50 AM]

imlach

Ah-hah.... the other one for sale

Yeah, prety manky exterior......I would say your one would value at 70-75k.

I would also say in terms of Edinburgh, it shouldn't attract too many buyers.......so won't go for much over valuation.

[Edited by imlach - 5/6/2003 3:13:52 PM]