Horse - Day Of Reckoning
23 April 2003, 09:55 AM
#1
Remember my horse saga?
Full hearing of the planning comittee today, one of which's agendas is whether our current next-door neighbour can stick a stable 10ft from my bedroom
EH reckon there is not potential for noise or odour complaints
We've got 15 councillors in a bus turning up for a site visit in an hour & then we've got to go & sit in a council chamber all afternoon to await our turn
Wouldn't have been bothered but the previous planning app was turned down & we were just waiting for enforcement, when we find out 2 weeks ago that the neighbour has been allowed to submit the same application again in full, with no objection from EH FFS [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Someone in the council has cocked up & we're having to deal with it
For some reason the words "Judicial Review" keep crossing my wife's lips...
Fingers crossed.
Full hearing of the planning comittee today, one of which's agendas is whether our current next-door neighbour can stick a stable 10ft from my bedroom
EH reckon there is not potential for noise or odour complaints
We've got 15 councillors in a bus turning up for a site visit in an hour & then we've got to go & sit in a council chamber all afternoon to await our turn
Wouldn't have been bothered but the previous planning app was turned down & we were just waiting for enforcement, when we find out 2 weeks ago that the neighbour has been allowed to submit the same application again in full, with no objection from EH
FFS [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]Someone in the council has cocked up & we're having to deal with it
For some reason the words "Judicial Review" keep crossing my wife's lips...Fingers crossed.
23 April 2003, 11:39 AM
#2
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Best of luck mate.
We've just done a land swap with the parish council so that they can build a new community centre on the land where our stables stood. When a new planning application was submitted, the local council (south Northants) would not allow the stables to be located within 35 metres of any domestic dwelling and there had to be a detailed plan submitted on the removal of horse muck and pest control (rats).
Cheers
Kav
We've just done a land swap with the parish council so that they can build a new community centre on the land where our stables stood. When a new planning application was submitted, the local council (south Northants) would not allow the stables to be located within 35 metres of any domestic dwelling and there had to be a detailed plan submitted on the removal of horse muck and pest control (rats).
Cheers
Kav
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23 April 2003, 07:24 PM
#9
WE WON! WE WON! WE WON! 
Planning office was in favour of approval, but we argued it (as did PCC) and together with some adroit legal points - we won!
I have to say that I'm extremely glad that the 15 councillors are not just lemmings and that they know when something is WRONG & voted for an outright refusal - against the planning dept - and didn't accept the "compromises" of deferment & limited time permission.
We only lost out by one vote on having a previous enforcement action enforced straightaway ( ) but still consider this an absolute victory
I won't go into it all, but the applicant said quite a few blatant lies & did themself no credit with their tactics & attitude.
My thanks to the members of the planning committee that realised that the whole application was a complete traversity of balance and neighbourliness.
They have 6 months to appeal ( ) but with TWO refused applications behind them, the onus is now on them to overturn the council's decision. Needless to say, we won't be assisting them...
Planning office was in favour of approval, but we argued it (as did PCC) and together with some adroit legal points - we won!
I have to say that I'm extremely glad that the 15 councillors are not just lemmings and that they know when something is WRONG & voted for an outright refusal - against the planning dept - and didn't accept the "compromises" of deferment & limited time permission.
We only lost out by one vote on having a previous enforcement action enforced straightaway (
) but still consider this an absolute victory I won't go into it all, but the applicant said quite a few blatant lies & did themself no credit with their tactics & attitude.
My thanks to the members of the planning committee that realised that the whole application was a complete traversity of balance and neighbourliness.
They have 6 months to appeal (
) but with TWO refused applications behind them, the onus is now on them to overturn the council's decision. Needless to say, we won't be assisting them...
23 April 2003, 07:44 PM
#10
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"I have to say that I'm extremely glad that the 15 councillors are not just lemmings and that they know when something is WRONG & voted for an outright refusal - against the planning dept - and didn't accept the "compromises" of deferment & limited time permission."
The planners probably had no choice but to recommend approval. Section 25 of the Town & Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 (english version is similar) states that in determining an application for planning permission the Planning Authority mustdetermine the application in accordance with the development plan (structure plan and local plan(s)) unless material considerations indicate otherwise.
For a planning authority (PA) to do otherwise would be ultra vires. In short the PA must have felt that the proposal was consistent with the development plan and that there were insufficient material considerations to outweigh this - hence recommendation of approval. Fortunately, for you, most councilers have little to no planning experience and can be talked into going against the planners
The problem you have is that if they go to appeal they will probably have a relatively strong case given that the planners (who all did 4 years planning - minimum @ uni) recommended approval and were overturned by the elected members (non-planning experts)! The appeal reporter will have LOTS of planning knowledge and experience and will look at the planning merits of the case not the sort of stuff councillors may have considered. In short if they appeal I'd say, based on what you've said, that they would have a fair chance
So why am I saying all this? Simply because you've got 6 months till you are in the clear. With a bit of luck the applicant will have had enough after all this and won't bother with an appeal - which is a nightmare!!
Good luck
The planners probably had no choice but to recommend approval. Section 25 of the Town & Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 (english version is similar) states that in determining an application for planning permission the Planning Authority mustdetermine the application in accordance with the development plan (structure plan and local plan(s)) unless material considerations indicate otherwise.
For a planning authority (PA) to do otherwise would be ultra vires. In short the PA must have felt that the proposal was consistent with the development plan and that there were insufficient material considerations to outweigh this - hence recommendation of approval. Fortunately, for you, most councilers have little to no planning experience and can be talked into going against the planners
The problem you have is that if they go to appeal they will probably have a relatively strong case given that the planners (who all did 4 years planning - minimum @ uni) recommended approval and were overturned by the elected members (non-planning experts)! The appeal reporter will have LOTS of planning knowledge and experience and will look at the planning merits of the case not the sort of stuff councillors may have considered. In short if they appeal I'd say, based on what you've said, that they would have a fair chance
So why am I saying all this? Simply because you've got 6 months till you are in the clear. With a bit of luck the applicant will have had enough after all this and won't bother with an appeal - which is a nightmare!!
Good luck
23 April 2003, 08:44 PM
#11
SB
I'll have a chat non-bbs with you @ somepoint but one of the reasons it was "approved" was that there weren't any diary sheets to prove EH noise/smell probs. We were led to believe that the application was a non-starter due to its position/listing/reasonableness & would be refused, so in order to not totally p1$$ off the neighbours, we let that bit lapse as we were told by PO that it wouldn't pass.
The application was refused on the above grounds BUT (& this is where it gets complicated) the applicant went to appeal, didn't pay the fee and somehow in the meantime the EHO decided that BECAUSE we hadn't submitted diary sheets, they had to change their mind against their original objection. Having said this, the applicant was allowed to apply a SECOND time for the same development & this time with the approval of the EHO for the application
No-one told us until about 2 weeks ago when we, expecting to have the thing knocked down, received the 2nd approved application instead.
I said it was complicated & today's majority decision by the PC was because the applicant had built, then applied, been turned over, re-applied etc when in fact the whole edifice should've been taken down. They were already going against PO approval with a recommendation for a limited approval.
There is more & its to do with neighbourliness & whether or not they would approve the structure if applied for in advance as opposed to retrospective.
On the whole, we have the right with us (planning/moral etc), although as you say, it'll be different in 6 months time...
I'll have a chat non-bbs with you @ somepoint but one of the reasons it was "approved" was that there weren't any diary sheets to prove EH noise/smell probs. We were led to believe that the application was a non-starter due to its position/listing/reasonableness & would be refused, so in order to not totally p1$$ off the neighbours, we let that bit lapse as we were told by PO that it wouldn't pass.
The application was refused on the above grounds BUT (& this is where it gets complicated) the applicant went to appeal, didn't pay the fee and somehow in the meantime the EHO decided that BECAUSE we hadn't submitted diary sheets, they had to change their mind against their original objection. Having said this, the applicant was allowed to apply a SECOND time for the same development & this time with the approval of the EHO for the application
No-one told us until about 2 weeks ago when we, expecting to have the thing knocked down, received the 2nd approved application instead.
I said it was complicated & today's majority decision by the PC was because the applicant had built, then applied, been turned over, re-applied etc when in fact the whole edifice should've been taken down. They were already going against PO approval with a recommendation for a limited approval.
There is more & its to do with neighbourliness & whether or not they would approve the structure if applied for in advance as opposed to retrospective.
On the whole, we have the right with us (planning/moral etc), although as you say, it'll be different in 6 months time...
23 April 2003, 08:52 PM
#12
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Just run that by me again, I'm a bit fick
Am I to take it a stable has been built without the proper planning?
Will the stable be getting ripped down now / not be built?
Ta, Bob
Am I to take it a stable has been built without the proper planning?
Will the stable be getting ripped down now / not be built?
Ta, Bob
23 April 2003, 08:56 PM
#13
Its there ( [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] )
It was originally built as temporary storage.
About a year ago, a horse moved in.
Application for retrospective PP refused.
Its still there
2nd retrospective PP has been refused
It will remain there until appeal held & enforcement will only commence after appeal lost.
6 months to appeal, 5 months+ to list appeal hearing, further time to enforce...
Could be over a year before the thing comes down
It was originally built as temporary storage.
About a year ago, a horse moved in.
Application for retrospective PP refused.
Its still there
2nd retrospective PP has been refused
It will remain there until appeal held & enforcement will only commence after appeal lost.
6 months to appeal, 5 months+ to list appeal hearing, further time to enforce...
Could be over a year before the thing comes down
23 April 2003, 09:06 PM
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I hate people that fire something up then ask questions later - makes a mockery of the planning system. I recently refused a monstrosity of an conservaotry that was built on the corner (hence two elevations) of an attractive traditional farmhouse with a lovely symetrical front elevation. The conservatory was part built and we are currently in the appeal process (incidently I forgot about the appeal site visit so made up some bull about a popped boost pipe 
which just confused the lass in the reporters office ) I'm confident we will win the appeal and the conservatory will be coming down.
Good luck puff, sounds like your neighbours haven't been very reasonable in the way that they have approached the planning regulations and the way they have treated you as a neighbour!
which just confused the lass in the reporters office ) I'm confident we will win the appeal and the conservatory will be coming down.Good luck puff, sounds like your neighbours haven't been very reasonable in the way that they have approached the planning regulations and the way they have treated you as a neighbour!
23 April 2003, 09:21 PM
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Ah right, thanks for that but for you but then also for you
Best of luck getting the thing ripped down, let me know if you'd like a hand, I'm open to cash offers
but for you but then also for youBest of luck getting the thing ripped down, let me know if you'd like a hand, I'm open to cash offers
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