Advice please - re pedestrian-biker 'accident'
13 September 2001, 05:10 PM
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Hi all
My girlfriend was crossing the road today (centre of London near Lombard St) when a motor cyclist had to take avoiding action to prevent himself running her over.
No injuries, but the biker came off his machine. Both parties were very shaken by the incident as you can imagine.
The first thing the biker said was to shout 'I hope you're insured'. My girlfriend said she wasn't looking and it was her fault. They swapped details and she wants me to look at the bike to assess the damage. Police arrived on the scene to check everything was ok then went.
I assummed she stepped off the kerb into the bikes path not giving him a chance, but it turns out that she was more than half way across the road when the bike swerved to avoid her.
She is still in shock and believes there is nothing the biker could have done and wants to pay for the damage. I'm in a bit of shock as well but I'm tending to feel that she can't step into his path without him seeing her from the middle of the street.
Don't get me wrong, I'm am so glad that the worst that will come of this is a debate on who's a fault for a non-injury accident and of course I know that I have'nt got all the details, but given the fact that they left it saying she'll pay for all the damage is worrying me a bit.
If she later decides she wasn't at fault and shouldn't pay for the damage I assume the biker can take her to a small claims court.
Because she didn't see him she won't be able to assess whether he saw her late or not, or whether he was speeding, not driving to the conditions etc.
I'm just glad she's ok, she really is the world to me. I'm shaking just thinking of what might have been. just trying to be prepared I suppose
Any advice welcome
Justin
My girlfriend was crossing the road today (centre of London near Lombard St) when a motor cyclist had to take avoiding action to prevent himself running her over.
No injuries, but the biker came off his machine. Both parties were very shaken by the incident as you can imagine.
The first thing the biker said was to shout 'I hope you're insured'. My girlfriend said she wasn't looking and it was her fault. They swapped details and she wants me to look at the bike to assess the damage. Police arrived on the scene to check everything was ok then went.
I assummed she stepped off the kerb into the bikes path not giving him a chance, but it turns out that she was more than half way across the road when the bike swerved to avoid her.
She is still in shock and believes there is nothing the biker could have done and wants to pay for the damage. I'm in a bit of shock as well but I'm tending to feel that she can't step into his path without him seeing her from the middle of the street.
Don't get me wrong, I'm am so glad that the worst that will come of this is a debate on who's a fault for a non-injury accident and of course I know that I have'nt got all the details, but given the fact that they left it saying she'll pay for all the damage is worrying me a bit.
If she later decides she wasn't at fault and shouldn't pay for the damage I assume the biker can take her to a small claims court.
Because she didn't see him she won't be able to assess whether he saw her late or not, or whether he was speeding, not driving to the conditions etc.
I'm just glad she's ok, she really is the world to me. I'm shaking just thinking of what might have been. just trying to be prepared I suppose
Any advice welcome
Justin
13 September 2001, 07:41 PM
#2
Justin
Glad your girlfriend is uninjured.
My best advice would be to talk to either a solicitor or if you have house insurance, your insurer as you may automatically be covered for Public Liability - worth checking.
Any witnesses? They're always handy.
Weather conditions? Road conditions? Sketch map of location with any vehicles/hazards as remembered? Estimate of speed of biker? ( How far bike slid) - may be that although he wasn't speeding per se, there may be a Due Care and Attention type issue. He has to ride his bike in such a manner in order that he can stop safely and in time in an emergency. Did he give a warning? Did he have his lights on? All things that may influence as to whether the biker was paying attention and being a responsible rider. Write down now all that she can recollect - tomorrow it'll be less.
Biker can of course take her to small claims, but it'll cost him money to do so. He also needs witnesses as it'll be his word against hers, so a statement of events b4/after done now will help. Just because you say at the time its your fault & you'll pay, its not legally binding but can make a defence a bit harder in court. Hope she didn't sign anything? At the end of the day, a judge in a small claims court is more there as an arbitrator and with little evidence from either side will try and reach a compromise. However, without any real evidence (from 3rd parties) it'll be hard for him as the onus is on the rider to prove that your girlfriend was to blame for his loss.
Hope it all sorts itself out - update the post.
Glad your girlfriend is uninjured.
My best advice would be to talk to either a solicitor or if you have house insurance, your insurer as you may automatically be covered for Public Liability - worth checking.
Any witnesses? They're always handy.
Weather conditions? Road conditions? Sketch map of location with any vehicles/hazards as remembered? Estimate of speed of biker? ( How far bike slid) - may be that although he wasn't speeding per se, there may be a Due Care and Attention type issue. He has to ride his bike in such a manner in order that he can stop safely and in time in an emergency. Did he give a warning? Did he have his lights on? All things that may influence as to whether the biker was paying attention and being a responsible rider. Write down now all that she can recollect - tomorrow it'll be less.
Biker can of course take her to small claims, but it'll cost him money to do so. He also needs witnesses as it'll be his word against hers, so a statement of events b4/after done now will help. Just because you say at the time its your fault & you'll pay, its not legally binding but can make a defence a bit harder in court. Hope she didn't sign anything? At the end of the day, a judge in a small claims court is more there as an arbitrator and with little evidence from either side will try and reach a compromise. However, without any real evidence (from 3rd parties) it'll be hard for him as the onus is on the rider to prove that your girlfriend was to blame for his loss.
Hope it all sorts itself out - update the post.
14 September 2001, 12:01 AM
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FB, the decenct thing to do here is not to comment on the awful suggestions you seem to think i might have preffered
14 September 2001, 12:22 AM
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It's just one of those things - but get your girlfriend to keep quiet and not admit anything. I doubt anything will happen - just a rant in the heat of the moment, but you don't want to leave yourself open to a potentially large personal injury claim (which could follow) if you agree to pay for the bike repairs. Ooo I've got a sore neck now, loss of earning etc..
I used to be a bike courier btw, and we were always bouncing off peds or vice versa - but if you want to save yourself many days of grief and court and many thousands of pounds then keep it shut.
I used to be a bike courier btw, and we were always bouncing off peds or vice versa - but if you want to save yourself many days of grief and court and many thousands of pounds then keep it shut.
14 September 2001, 11:10 AM
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Update
Have the details. She was crossing a 4 lane 2way traffic road to an island in the middle of a pedestrian crossing (with traffic lights, not a pelican/zebra crossing). the lights were green i.e. red man for the pedestrian. Before crossing she checked for traffic, there was a Mercedes coming her way, but far enough away for her to cross the road with ease. The car was in the lane nearest the kerb. She was a few feet from reaching the island (almost across the second lane) when she first saw the bike now only a few yards away from her braking heavily. The bike stopped before it reached her - a few feet only mind, but for the very last few feet it travelled before it stopped it had fallen on its side.
The words the biker first said were aggressive, abusive and threatening. She was in shock throughout the whole ordeal and was apologetic and took responsibility. The WPC on the scene took notes on what was said, but wasn't present for the bikers initial reaction.
Now that my girlfriend has had time to reflect on the whole situation she now believes that she didn't cross the road with 'negligence to other road users' for want of a better phrase. She doesn't want to pay for the damage either.
It was left with her contacting him at the weekend with regards to assessing and paying for the damage.
On advice from a solicitor she will not be contacting him, no doubt he will contact her to which she will explain that she is not willing to pay for the damage, and if he wishes to pursue this matter then to do it through the appropriate channels.
There were no witnesses that came forward, but there is the WPC's notes as the only evidence.
She has drawn a map and written everything down.
My concern is how she should handle the inevitable phone call. Should she give the reasons why she is not willing to pay - ie the words she said at the scene were when she was in a state of shock, panic and duress, and also he dropped his bike performing an emergency stop, he didnt swerve round her - he stopped before reaching her. Or the other way is to to refuse to pay, not giving any reason for the change of mind.
I think he is more likely to pursue this if the latter is taken. The other way of looking at it is that I'm sure the biker has had time to reflect on this too and hopefully will realize that based on the events that took place it would unlikely that a successful claim would be made.
Wait and see I suppose
Puff, thanks for your words
Justin
Have the details. She was crossing a 4 lane 2way traffic road to an island in the middle of a pedestrian crossing (with traffic lights, not a pelican/zebra crossing). the lights were green i.e. red man for the pedestrian. Before crossing she checked for traffic, there was a Mercedes coming her way, but far enough away for her to cross the road with ease. The car was in the lane nearest the kerb. She was a few feet from reaching the island (almost across the second lane) when she first saw the bike now only a few yards away from her braking heavily. The bike stopped before it reached her - a few feet only mind, but for the very last few feet it travelled before it stopped it had fallen on its side.
The words the biker first said were aggressive, abusive and threatening. She was in shock throughout the whole ordeal and was apologetic and took responsibility. The WPC on the scene took notes on what was said, but wasn't present for the bikers initial reaction.
Now that my girlfriend has had time to reflect on the whole situation she now believes that she didn't cross the road with 'negligence to other road users' for want of a better phrase. She doesn't want to pay for the damage either.
It was left with her contacting him at the weekend with regards to assessing and paying for the damage.
On advice from a solicitor she will not be contacting him, no doubt he will contact her to which she will explain that she is not willing to pay for the damage, and if he wishes to pursue this matter then to do it through the appropriate channels.
There were no witnesses that came forward, but there is the WPC's notes as the only evidence.
She has drawn a map and written everything down.
My concern is how she should handle the inevitable phone call. Should she give the reasons why she is not willing to pay - ie the words she said at the scene were when she was in a state of shock, panic and duress, and also he dropped his bike performing an emergency stop, he didnt swerve round her - he stopped before reaching her. Or the other way is to to refuse to pay, not giving any reason for the change of mind.
I think he is more likely to pursue this if the latter is taken. The other way of looking at it is that I'm sure the biker has had time to reflect on this too and hopefully will realize that based on the events that took place it would unlikely that a successful claim would be made.
Wait and see I suppose
Puff, thanks for your words
Justin
14 September 2001, 11:41 AM
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Jay - that is a dirty action to pull. If she had been crossing at a green light and he had shot a red light knocking her down would you accept the same reasoning? Maybe you prefer that he hadn't braked so hard and maybe broke her back instead. After all he wasn't doing anything wrong when he dropped the bike, other than trying to avoid killing her.
I had a similar accident a few years back and ended up taking the pedestrian to small claims. Strangely while I was in court I decided I might as well take a person injury claim as well as the damage claim. The damage to the bike was approx 400.00. The personal injuries came to over 4000.00.
I hope you decide to do the decent thing. If you decide to rip this man off then I hope you get what is coming to you.
I had a similar accident a few years back and ended up taking the pedestrian to small claims. Strangely while I was in court I decided I might as well take a person injury claim as well as the damage claim. The damage to the bike was approx 400.00. The personal injuries came to over 4000.00.
I hope you decide to do the decent thing. If you decide to rip this man off then I hope you get what is coming to you.
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14 September 2001, 05:32 PM
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Another thing - if you/your girlfriend did decide to pay for the damage to the bike, there's nothing to stop him hauling you over the coals for a personal injury claim too. Unless you are very careful, paying for bike repairs could be considered an admission of guilt. Make sure it's without prejudice (say that expressly). And make sure if you do that he acknowledges that it's in full and final settlement of any claim against your girlfriend as a result of the accident.
And *do* record any telephone call he makes, just in case he is abusive - it'll be evidence for court if necessary. Your main concern should be to protect yourself in the event you do have to go to court. (Not being a mercenary bast@rd here, just pragmatic - I am a lawyer!)
On the phone, just don't say anything - refer him to your solicitor in the event that he looks like pursuing it, and put the phone down if he carries on. Any further phone calls, contact the police and your telephone provider about the harassment.
Anyway, best of luck. Look forward to your update with interest.
And *do* record any telephone call he makes, just in case he is abusive - it'll be evidence for court if necessary. Your main concern should be to protect yourself in the event you do have to go to court. (Not being a mercenary bast@rd here, just pragmatic - I am a lawyer!)
On the phone, just don't say anything - refer him to your solicitor in the event that he looks like pursuing it, and put the phone down if he carries on. Any further phone calls, contact the police and your telephone provider about the harassment.
Anyway, best of luck. Look forward to your update with interest.
14 September 2001, 05:41 PM
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I think you will have to inform him that the call is being recorded at the start, otherwise you could land yourself in trouble (and possibly make the evidence inadmissable?)
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