markwild

Boys in blue - or anyone with a view ?

This morning I left the local Tesco, having observed 6 police cars in convoy, sirens blazing, drive onto, then off the housing estate.

I drove onto the A50 Dual Carriageway, down the slip road, past some lorries (now in right hand lane). As I came to leave onto the exit slip road, I saw the convoy approaching rapidly behind. They were following 3 young lads in a red escort, with its hazard warning lights on. The lads came right up behind me and attempted to undertake, (where the road is 1.5 cars wide). Rather than move, I slowed and 'road blocked' to reduce their speed. As we reached the roundabout, I thought that they would ram me if I stopped in front of them (Or perform some ultra-dangerous manouvre!)..

SO... I pulled to the right hand side and let them pass, along with the convoy of police cars ... I think that they caught them, but I don't know for sure...

Any view on what I SHOULD have done ?

Mark

Tiggs

get out the way, what if the lead car was unmarked police, what if they crashed into you, what if, what if....police where in attendance leave them to it.

T

MrDBM

fair point, but if it were my stolen beloved, and in a similar situation, I'd want somebody to try and slow it - give the boys in blue a btter chance...

58GT

Depends how much you love your car! One time I pulled away from my house, hadn't got 20 yards when 4 likely looking lads in a nova came squealing across the junction without stopping. I stopped to let them by a parked car but another bloke in an escort cos came up behind and effectively boxed them, not deliberately but just in the course of normal driving. Anyway they looked at me, realised I couldn't move, engaged reverse and smashed into the cosworth, knocking it back far enough for them to squeeze through the gap. Anyway we called the bizzies who caught them quick. They'd stolen the car from a solicitor's car park just up the road. The woman owner had left the keys in it. The escort wasn't too badly damaged but the owner was close to tears, hadn't had it more than a week.

58GT

Anyway they don't normally send 6 squad cars after a stolen car. Must've been something heavier than that.

Brendan Hughes

You might want to ask the local police what actually happened in the end? Not sure if they'd tell though (confidential info, innocent until guilty etc) - or what you could do in the future? Nice to know if they were ******* or good guys.

markwild

They looked about 14, so I don't think that they were police !

[then again, at my age, 25 yr olds look young !!!]

I'll try and find out what happened somehow, but there were at LEAST 6 cars, possibly 8 by the time they came past me - Volvos, Senators, smaller squadys etc....

I'm faily sure that the road they finally turned down is a cul-de-sac...

Mark

ChrisB

Meir Park Tescos Mark?

markwild

Yep.... Police come off A50 on Meir Park, go towards Potters Bar (the pub, not the place!). Must have gone round the estate (big loop) and come back to A50 Roundabout. I went onto A50 towards Meir, so they must have gone right to next exit, round it and back on.....

Bout 10:30 am today...

Mark

FERRARINUTTER

Got caught up in a motorbike chase, no where to pull over in a 30mph to let Police through safely, sped away and pulled over at a suitable safe overtaking area.

Police acknowledged me, though did get a phone call the next day to be a witnessto the event.

Though I made no attempt to nudge the rider, at that speed I would have killed him, as it happened he hit some innocent turing right, he died and 3 other people got seriously injured.......

Spoke to the Police at length aboutt right and wrongs and often than not the Public do help with road blocks (usually artics as damage to them is far less). Though this is not actively encouraged.....

T.C

Some of you may remember many years back when two boys aged 14 were killed on the M4 exit slip road at junction 11 (Reading)when they drove the stolen vehicle they were in, straight into the side of an Artic that had been used to block the road in an attempt to stop them. I was involved as one of the pursuing vehicles.

These two young idiots had driven in such a manner that it was lucky that no one had been killed earlier, and they had to be stopped. My Sgt decided that it was unlikely that they would drive straight at an Artic so he placed it across the slip, but they simply chose not to stop. This pursuit had lasted for well over an hour at speeds up to 100 mph and more.

Barry, (My Sgt) was vilified in the press, but patted on the back by his colleagues because at the end of the day these two people had the opportunity to stop, they chose not to and paid the penalty, but what would have happened if we had done nothing and an innocent member of the public had died.

The majority of of Traffic officers hate being involved in pursuits, but it is part of the job that they are trained to do. In my force Panda Cars were/are prohibited from chases and it has to be handed over to a Traffic crew, and if you listen to the radio traffic, the groans from the crew can be heard. Eventually something will go wrong, and it is always the Police who are on the receiving end of any bad press, but it has to be done.

Not long before I retired, an order was put out that no crews would be come invoved in a pursuit. On one particular occasion, a member of the public reported a rape or similar nasty crime, gave the registration number of the offenders vehicle which was circulated just as it went past a police car. The Police car remained stationary and the offender was lost, although he was eventually caught, convicted and sentanced. The Policeman was disciplined for Neglect of Duty, at his hearing he pointed out that he had two options, go after the vehicle and risk being stuck on for disobedience to orders, particularly if it went pear shaped, or Neglect, he was in a no win situation as both offences carry the same penalty in the Police service. In fairness the disciplinary board saw his point and dismissed all charges and he was reinstated.

New rules governing pursuits were then introduced, which are still inplace to this day.

The problem for many Policemen is that if they try to stop a vehicle and it refuses, how far should they go in an attempt to stop it. They may just have commited a murder for all the Police know and it may not have been reported yet. Another example.

I was doing a speed check on a major carriageway one afternoon when we clocked this vehicle travelling northbound at 130+. Went to stop it but it was gone so we gave chase. 4 miles later, the vehicle carried out an overtake on a blind left hand bend and hit an HGV coming in the opposite direction, took the offending drivers head clean off his shoulders which landed in my lap (I was on the bike). We searched his vehicle, and in the boot were two sawn off shotguns both discharged, and about £40,000 in used bank notes. Half an hour earlier the driver and his mate had robbed a Post office in hamshire and shot the Postmaster and his assistant. We didn't know this, but it ended up in my opinion being a fair result, but I hope you can see where I am coming from.

At the end of the day, the "Bandit" motorist has the option to stop or they must accept the consequences, it is the innocent members of the public that have to be given the highest priority, but sometimes it does go belly up and accidents do happen much to the regret of the Police officers involved.

markwild

TC. I agree with all you say - After I moved out of the way, I started to think ' I should have stopped, maybe I could have ended this.' But, it also occurred to me that the officers are far better equipped than me and that I may have ended up causing a major incident.

I realise that they are only human, and they do a job I'd rather not, but I'd like to be able to 'do the right thing'.

I appreciate your comment and views,
Mark

FERRARINUTTER

In the motorbike case, he had over 2.5 times the legal limit along with drugs.......

The police had called off the pursuit, though the family of the dead rider are now suing police for the pursuit.

The rider could have stopped at anytime........I felt sorry for the Police they were in a no win situation....and infact I believe it is Policy not to give chase to a bike after excessive speed have been seen in order to preserve the riders life...

Watching how the Americans rams cars seems to work more often than not........

Merc_Cosworth

I have considerable respect for traffic cops - I wouldn't want their job in a month of Sundays...

Whenever possible, I'll help the traffic lot in their job (reporting debris on the motorway etc etc)

But I certainly wouldn't put my life in danger for the sake of a pair of retards in a stolen car.

Weigh up the options, is anything worth what could turn out to be the supreme sacrifice?

Luke

Pulled out in front of the first Police car.

scooby-si

should use USA tackticks if they dont stop ram them

Phil Harrison

I'm going to take the opposite view. TC's position is based on the (generally) false premise that the person being chased is rational enough to have rationally rejected the option to stop. Given the prevalence of drugs/alcohol, personality/behavioural disorder (implicit in criminality) or immaturity in such circumstances, this cannot be assumed. Far from it, innocent members of the public are put at risk by such police action which, though now more tightly controlled still escalates out of control occasionally (note the inappropriate "squad cars" mixing with T5s and "Senators" (really?? Still??? Unlikely) in the original post). You only have to watch the TV programmes about police pursuits to ask oneself "who is creating the greater danger here?" Even for a murder or a rape, I don't volunteer my wife and kids as a hostage to the pursuit. Note the irrationality of ramming the artic....irrationality is not a crime such that one should be pursued "to the death".

Indeed, there has been a recently reported case of members of the public killed by a police car braking down from a substantial 3-figure speed "practising" on the public road. 5 years chokey for me, were I to do that.... nowt for them, tho'.

I'm not so sure..

Phil
NB: this is a debating post, not a police-slagging post!

markwild

sorry about the senators part - I do of course mean Omegas - they're both Vauxhauls !

Nothing in the local paper about it tonight, but I'll update the post if I find anything..

Suffice to say that my wife is glad I didnt get rear ended into 'the next life' !

I think that I'll settle that I did what I could at the time..

Mark

TopBanana

Lucky you didn't get shot - pull over next time

T.C

Phil Harrison, what force do you or did you serve with?

jbryant

Pull into their way? No chance. For all you know they could have a shotgun and be on the way from a post-office job or similar.
Bye bye cruel world.

I would take the first opportunity to pull aside and let them past, especially with the bizzies in close attendance behind.

Joolz

Phil Harrison

TC,
YHM.

Phil