Luke

To hell with it!!!
Ive paid enough tax for my car to be on the road in London.
If there is a full on mass "Non payment" the Goverment will give up and come up with a better and cheaper idea.
Allow this and what next???

So how to avoid???
1. By a cheap car and not register it
2.False plate
3.obscure the plate
4.Trash the cameras!!
5. Find the "nerve Centre" and let the public know the Address. "Do I smell smoke??"


Anymore??

zoog

Yea, I'm dissappointed everyone seems to be just taking it lying down. Makes you wonder just how far you can actually push the British public without them standing up for themselves. I'm also surprised there aren't riots at train stations with the appalling services. A more "Latin" tempered nation would have none of it.

It is this sort of exploitation and ill treatment of normal working people that makes them consider breaking the law.

Would I lose any sleep if the cameras were vandalised, perhaps by air rifle pellets? Only through laughing so much.

Jerome

There is a web site that is anti the congestion charge and details loads of routes where you can get into the zone without passing a camera (I knew a few myself ). When I get a second I'll dig it out.

I think there will be a black market in false plates emerging very soon...

BOB.T

I know for certain I will deffo not be paying it[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

(considering I've only been to the village 3 times it's hardly surprising though)

It's about time we stood up to the goverment, they're being waaaaay too heavy on motorists, they're just taking the p*ss now

I had a weigh up the other day, for me to get to work takes no more than ten minutes in the car, it's about 8 or 9 miles. The only public transport alternative is by bus, sorry, two buses cos there's no direct route. The nearest route, to get me there on time involves walking half a mile, then I'd have to swap to another coach firm, which can only drop me, again, half a mile from where I want be God only knows how long this would take, having to go through the town centre and how much would two buses cost? I'm certainly not interested in finding out!

There'll be big time trouble if I get forced out of my car[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

cookiemonster

I live and work in London. My view - I cant understand why its taken so long. I can finally walk through trafalgar square without having traffic pass by me by 2 foot at 50 mph.

I'd go further: pedestrianise soho & covent garden for starters.

I'm a commited petrolhead - but London & cars dont mix.

mj

I saw this on newsnight last night, they said the location was to remain top secret.

If anyone's interested its in coventry.

what would scooby do

so they will just change it's name and you will continue paying then !

chiark

Trash the cameras? I reckon you'd find yourself in more hot water than you imagined.

The "ring of steel" around the city has cameras that read plates, cross reference against known hot cars, and give a notification within a few seconds as to whether to take action or not. For protection against terrorism.

If this system is the basis of the conjestion charging, mess with those cameras and you could find yourself on anti-terrorism charges.

Again, this is taking the extreme view, but I really really wouldn't recommend trying to mess

Ray T

You'll find the main data center is in brick lane london with an out of town mirror center, there saying that a car travelling through the zone is recorded on average 8 time.

Red Ken is not too worried about scraping the "Congestion charge", if it proves to be unsucessful as he already has a buyer in the shape of the Met police lined up to buy the system . Big brother gets even closer!!!

andrewdelvard

Sorry I'm a bit behind with all this. What area of London does this cover?

cookiemonster

pretty much the city & the west end

I dont see the issue - cars dont work in London; it's congested, it's noisy and it stinks in the summer. The problem is too many cars, the solution is to reduce the number of cars in the centre.

I cant think of another way to do it, apart from a flat ban.

Whats the problem ?

andrewdelvard

Blimey Guvna! I didn't realise this was the coverage area...

http://www.disabled.driverinfo.btint...uk/lonmap.html

[Edited by andrewdelvard - 1/14/2003 10:20:18 AM]

Jerome

Red "Car hating" Ken was saying yesterday that he will keep on increasing the charge until he gets his 10-15% reduction in traffic. God knows how much it could end up costing, £10, £20, £30???

The guy is fool (I'd prefer to use a word rhyming with hunt). People avoid Central London because it is congested. Does he honestly think people make unecessary trips around the capital? Oh I think I just go for a spin in town and spend 2 hours stationary. If I ever see him, I dread what I might end up doing to him.

As for messing with the cameras, don't forget a ladder. Most of them are 20 odd feet up a very large pole. I also wouldn't recommend taking pot shots at them with an air rifle. Heavily armed anti-terrorist Police are never far away in the City.

Popeye P1

I don't live in London. Obviously you southerners earn too much money as no one seems bothered about this fee.

Adam M

has anyone thought what it might to do house prices just outside the zone, or on routes which were formerly rather quiet but will now be detours to avoid the inner ring?

Personally I think its a good idea too.

Congestion is a massive problem and the only way to reduce it, is to reduce the number of cars. So long as they put the money into improving public transport in london to make it a viable. Ken said he is unhappy with the scheme but if someone can come up with a better idea he will go for it.

RobinSherwood

Dear cookiemonster and others,

Some people DO have to drive into Central London

I repeat what I posted on a previous thread on this topic

"I work in the 'medical mile' and many of our patients travel from all over the UK to see us. Many of these people are not fit enough to travel by public transport so have to be brought by car. They already have to pay nearly £5 an hour parking to Westminster and another £5 for the CC is going to be tough on these people. It would be easy to say if people can afford private medicine they can afford an extra £5 but I can assure you this is not the case, many patients struggle to pay the fees and whilst we try never to turn anyone away because they can't afford it ultimately there is only so far we can go as we are a business and not a charity. The treatement we offer is also not available anywhere else in the world.
Ours is not the only practice whose patients will be affected in this way."

Regards

Robin

Richard Askew

www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=167138


..can those who are affected by the charges post on here saying how much they're affected and what it will cost them a month..


Cheers

R

cookiemonster

Robin - fair enough, there are a very small fraction of people that will be severely inconvinienced. What's the alternative ? that no efforts are made to curb central London congestion due to a small number of folk ? They appear to be making a huge effort for residents, disabled, etc, so concerns like yours are being acted upon.

The problem is that there is no easy, quick, cheap solution that benifits everybody - no other city has managed to solve the congestion issue and its been with us since the days of horses and carts.

I reckon this is as good as we're going to get.

BOB.T

Well, how's about installing decent, affordable and on time public transport before turfing folk out of their cars!

Plantie

Bob, can you suggest how can you get a decent on-time public transport service with so much congestion.....????

I dont agree with this.... however how else can it be sorted????

BTW it doesnt affect me at all as I dont go into the city ay all..

BOB.T

I don't go to the city either but...

From what I gather the tube is always packed out, as are trains, surely more trains could be run and as a result, more passengers carried... less cars. I'm also lead to believe that traffic lights have been set to cause the maximum of congestion, also, road works should be more tightly controlled so the roads we have and pay so much for can be used. Schools should be encouraged to run a bus service and not have a billion 4x4's parked outside. That should see traffic moving a bit more

What about improving bus lanes, reinstalling trams. Obviously this is gonna take massive investment but that's only due to succesive governments/councils being so short sighted. A little investent every year would prevent mahoosive one off bills!

I understand something must be done but it's just not fair to keep dumping more charges on the motorist, we pay enough already without toll roads[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] If there was a cheaper, more effiecient method than cars, people would use it, lets not forget we have probably Europes worst and least invested in,transport system

What about the effect on trade, hauliers will pass the charge onto shops who, inturn will pass that onto the public who've already paid it What about people who work in the city, why should they have to pay the extra, just to get to work?

speedking

1. Move the government out of London to somewhere that needs the cash, Middlesbrough or similar. This will drag a lot of media with it reducing congestion at a stroke.
2. More incentives to encourage banks (specialist medical centres) etc. who do not need to be in London to relocate.

Alternatively:
3. Market forces. Remove all waiting restrictions, traffic lights, bus lanes etc. Soon people will not be arsed to take their cars. Surely the situation can't get any worse than it is now and people will feel that they are getting something back.

Jerome

Plantie,

Public transport isn't just buses. There is the tube, Docklands Light Railway and overground trains. As far as I'm concerned, buses contribute massively to the congestion. The average number of passengers on a double decker bus? Nine. Yes nine. What they need are large buses during the rush hour and smaller buses outside of it. But that would cost the bus companies money they will not get from Red Ken. I've even seen two No. 507 extra long "bendy" buses in convoy with 1 passenger between them FFS!!! Buses are also one of the most unpleasant (not to mention slow) ways to travel around London. Many bus journeys require changing buses. It is extremely difficult to work out where to change, and then where the next bus you want leaves from.

The Underground is dire at the moment. I use the Circle line and there is normaly 12-15 minutes between each train. Then there are two circle line trains about 2 minutes apart. How difficult can it be to space them out FFS. One points failure/broken down train/passenger taken ill on a train/snow(much of the underground is outside)/security scare etc at a key station can virtually paralyse several lines. The trains when they run "normally" are packed to the gills in the rush hour.

I've only used the DLR a few times, but each time it has been an extruciatingly slow and poor service. Just about any journey requires changing trains. I also think, after dark, it is very dodgy.

I only use the tube because parking costs a fortune (£15-25 per day) and offers little or no security. The door to door journey by tube is 45 minutes (at the very best). By bus would require several changes and would take about 1.5 hours. Cycling, even if the weather is good, is a very hazardous method of travel in central London. Black cabs are ridiculously expensive (especially compared to NY & Toronto). Driving would take me 20-25 minutes in the rush hour. Make no mistake, if I had a parking space at work I would drive.

RobinSherwood

But is it fair that that in this area the vast proportion of the 'small proportion' of people who will be inconvenienced will be people who are ill?

Why not just draw the boundary so that one of the most famous districts in the world for medical services is left outside the boundary?

Simple because the people who thought this (farce) up are anti private medicine and do not realise that many people have NO CHOICE but to come to us or other private doctors if they want to be helped in a resonable time frame, or in the case of those practices like ourselves who offer something leading edge, cured at all.

We would happily set up a unit in the NHS by the way and it has been estimated what we do would save the NHS 3 billion a year if applied countrywide. Why did it all fall through? Because the goverment would not invest £90,000 to set up the first unit........

On another note a licensed taxi driver we know has been told it will take ONE year to process his application for exemption to the charge because of an adminstrative backlog, what is all that about FFS.

I agree something has to be done. I do ot personally agree with this charge. Even if a charge is the right way to go it needs to be better though through and administered than what this bunch of clown have in mind'

Kind regards

Robin

what would scooby do

I use public transport to get to london and get around london (train and tube).. the whole system is at breaking point and if car drivers start to use public transport it will be a disaster.

At peak times the underground has already had to close various stations because of overcrowding.

boomer

Doesn't it seem a bit strange that the congestion charge control centre is one hundred yards outside of the charge zone boundary, thus saving the workers from having to pay their daily fivers

Oh, and the call handling centre (run by Crapita) which will create 800 jobs is to be in the West Midlands. Nice of Red Ken to create some local jobs!

Still, fatty two-jags won't have to pay any congestion charge when he is in his chauffer-driven limo - so he's not complaining [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

mb