Euro join or not
12 January 2003, 08:48 PM
#1
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I do not think that joining the Euro will make us better off, if owt we will be worse off. Apparently Italy want out, Germans arnt to happy with it. Most counties are saying they had price rises, well rounding off on the up side. If they rounded prices off here to the nearest high £, We would all be skint. Blair the liar must go sooner the better. He can go and sit on Bush's knee for me. 2 To$$ers together.
12 January 2003, 09:46 PM
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providing the 5 economic tests are met (& not fudged) and providing the country is in favour. 
personally I don't mind in principle but I don't think it's in the interests of this country at the mo. Don't forget these 'new' countries joining the EU, their economies will be joined to the european pool that makes up the Euro currency. That is a bt worrying.
personally I don't mind in principle but I don't think it's in the interests of this country at the mo. Don't forget these 'new' countries joining the EU, their economies will be joined to the european pool that makes up the Euro currency. That is a bt worrying.
12 January 2003, 10:16 PM
#5
The sooner the people of this country can see a DIRECT comparison with other european prices for the same article, the sooner questions will be asked as to WHY we pay so much more for petrol, diesel, wine, ****, beer, whiskey, cars, electronics, food, tools, garden equipment etc etc etc etc etc.
RIP OFF BRITAIN: R.I.P.
Alcazar
RIP OFF BRITAIN: R.I.P.
Alcazar
12 January 2003, 10:36 PM
#6
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Look far enough into the future and the Euro is inevitable. The problem is that its a fact now and if we try to compete with it (and the many countries involved in it) we can't win. We have to join the Euro or we could do what many other countries do and use Dollars!!!!!
Personally I like our old fashioned English pounds with the pics of the Queen on them- very tasteful compared to the bland Euro mnoey.
Personally I like our old fashioned English pounds with the pics of the Queen on them- very tasteful compared to the bland Euro mnoey.
12 January 2003, 11:17 PM
#7
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Absolutely NOT join.
The Germans were the most enthusiastic about the Euro and every day more and more of them become seriously disillusioned with the Euro. It has increased prices massively and is also stifling the German governments ability to manage their economy. The only countries that benefit being in the Euro are the poorer ones. Aren't we taxed enough without funding motorways in Spain?
I still haven't seen or heard one even mildly convincing argument for us to join. Is the UK being affected by not being a member right now - a year after it came into being? No.
The Europhile politicians keep talking about exports to the continent being affected if we don't join. But, the last time I looked, we imported more from the continent than we exported. In other words, they will not impose trade tariffs because they need our custom.
Even if a convincing argument could be made for the short term, what about in 25 years time? It may cripple the UK economy then for all the europhiles know. I very much doubt that continuing with sterling will harm this country in the same way.
A bunch of cobbled together countries that only have geographic location in common having the same currency seems lunacy to me. Each country has a different economy but they have all signed up to be held within constraints that may harm them immeasurably.
No, no and thrice no!
The Germans were the most enthusiastic about the Euro and every day more and more of them become seriously disillusioned with the Euro. It has increased prices massively and is also stifling the German governments ability to manage their economy. The only countries that benefit being in the Euro are the poorer ones. Aren't we taxed enough without funding motorways in Spain?
I still haven't seen or heard one even mildly convincing argument for us to join. Is the UK being affected by not being a member right now - a year after it came into being? No.
The Europhile politicians keep talking about exports to the continent being affected if we don't join. But, the last time I looked, we imported more from the continent than we exported. In other words, they will not impose trade tariffs because they need our custom.
Even if a convincing argument could be made for the short term, what about in 25 years time? It may cripple the UK economy then for all the europhiles know. I very much doubt that continuing with sterling will harm this country in the same way.
A bunch of cobbled together countries that only have geographic location in common having the same currency seems lunacy to me. Each country has a different economy but they have all signed up to be held within constraints that may harm them immeasurably.
No, no and thrice no!
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12 January 2003, 11:40 PM
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But, the last time I looked, we imported more from the continent than we exported.
Join now while we still have some manufacturing and exporting firms left.
Lee
13 January 2003, 06:58 AM
#10
Agree with Logiclee: our exports are being harmed by the over strong pound.
Another point is that every time you buy anything from abroad at the moment, some anonymous banker somewhere is making lots of money out of you just for changing from pounds to Euros/dollars/yen etc.
You'd be surprised at how much it is:about 8% at the last time I checked!!!
Just think, if we knocked 8% off all imported goods from the EC? Or gave the 8% straight to industry?
I'd rather do that than line some bank's pockets.....AGAIN!!
Alcazar
Another point is that every time you buy anything from abroad at the moment, some anonymous banker somewhere is making lots of money out of you just for changing from pounds to Euros/dollars/yen etc.
You'd be surprised at how much it is:about 8% at the last time I checked!!!
Just think, if we knocked 8% off all imported goods from the EC? Or gave the 8% straight to industry?
I'd rather do that than line some bank's pockets.....AGAIN!!
Alcazar
13 January 2003, 08:57 AM
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There's nothing wrong with using the same notes, its all the financial controls that we would have to adopt that I am against.
Its about whether you want your interest rate, tax and spending levels set by the elected governement or a panel of unelected European bankers.
Its about whether you want your interest rate, tax and spending levels set by the elected governement or a panel of unelected European bankers.
13 January 2003, 09:16 AM
#14
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And the colour of the money in your pocket is just one small thing in what really happens if we give up the £
Ask the complete opposite in: "should we stay in the EU"? With more and more poor countries set to join, just ask the simple question of who is going to pay for it all?
Ask the complete opposite in: "should we stay in the EU"? With more and more poor countries set to join, just ask the simple question of who is going to pay for it all?
13 January 2003, 09:42 AM
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Nope, not in favour.
As has been said, there are almost certainly a few countries' populations who envy the UK's position of being outside the Euro right now.
And the bigger it gets, the harder it is to manage.
It's an economic ideology that has been turned into a political football.
As has been said, there are almost certainly a few countries' populations who envy the UK's position of being outside the Euro right now.
And the bigger it gets, the harder it is to manage.
It's an economic ideology that has been turned into a political football.
13 January 2003, 10:23 AM
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The advantages of joining the euro are all good time related. The problems in controlling inflation have been well documented in Ireland, where their economy was in a trough whilst mainland europe was peaking.
The labour govt have found that economies work in cycles, there are so many factors that influence the world economy that are uncontrollable, for example the weather and its affect on harvest. As opposition Labour refered to it as boom and bust!!
The labour govt have found that economies work in cycles, there are so many factors that influence the world economy that are uncontrollable, for example the weather and its affect on harvest. As opposition Labour refered to it as boom and bust!!
13 January 2003, 10:34 AM
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Join.. the USA and take on the dollar
Bottom line is the EU need us more than we need them at the moment, but this (hopefully) will change.
I have no concernes about loosing the £ as a currency, my only concers are 1) the mechanisms for controlling the economy will be out of uk government hands (not a bad thing some may say)
How can economies such as UK work with (proposed) new members Turkey and Poland (something has to break)
Bottom line is the EU need us more than we need them at the moment, but this (hopefully) will change.
I have no concernes about loosing the £ as a currency, my only concers are 1) the mechanisms for controlling the economy will be out of uk government hands (not a bad thing some may say)
How can economies such as UK work with (proposed) new members Turkey and Poland (something has to break)
13 January 2003, 11:11 AM
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do not join.
ultimately, merged economies can only be as strong as the weakest link in the chain. sure the italian, greek and portugese economies will benefit (as the weakest) - but at the expense of the stronger ones. we are already a net contributor to the EU - why should we exacerbate this position? the german economy is still groaning dangerously under the weight of re-unification.
merging monetary policy means handing over critical economic (and therefore political) policy decisions to the EU/European Central Bank. that is control over interest rates and inevitably, tax raising powers.
until the EU is a democratically elected body - which it currently isn't - i cannot see why we should erode our sovereignty and rights of self-determination by handing over critical decision-making to a group of self-serving, unaccountable, unelected bureaucrats proven to be institutionally corrupt.
lastly, we undertake 50 to 53% of our export trade with the US/RoW - EU export trade is under 50%, ergo there is insufficient economic justification. this is according to the DTi - do not believe it when cretinous politicians like robin cook try and pretend that the majority of our business is done with the EU. it's a bald lie.
we need at least ten years or so to monitor performance of the euro before its success or failure can be judged resonably.
however, without fundamental democratic reforms of the EU, i want nothing to do with it - least of all to flatter blair's political vanity. we have the fourth biggest economy in the world. i'm happy with that.
ultimately, merged economies can only be as strong as the weakest link in the chain. sure the italian, greek and portugese economies will benefit (as the weakest) - but at the expense of the stronger ones. we are already a net contributor to the EU - why should we exacerbate this position? the german economy is still groaning dangerously under the weight of re-unification.
merging monetary policy means handing over critical economic (and therefore political) policy decisions to the EU/European Central Bank. that is control over interest rates and inevitably, tax raising powers.
until the EU is a democratically elected body - which it currently isn't - i cannot see why we should erode our sovereignty and rights of self-determination by handing over critical decision-making to a group of self-serving, unaccountable, unelected bureaucrats proven to be institutionally corrupt.
lastly, we undertake 50 to 53% of our export trade with the US/RoW - EU export trade is under 50%, ergo there is insufficient economic justification. this is according to the DTi - do not believe it when cretinous politicians like robin cook try and pretend that the majority of our business is done with the EU. it's a bald lie.
we need at least ten years or so to monitor performance of the euro before its success or failure can be judged resonably.
however, without fundamental democratic reforms of the EU, i want nothing to do with it - least of all to flatter blair's political vanity. we have the fourth biggest economy in the world. i'm happy with that.
13 January 2003, 11:11 AM
#20
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Is the fact that we have multiple different languages accross Europe the biggest barrier to free trade between the various countries?
We should only join the Euro, if everyone else signs upto English been the 1st spoken and taught langauge. It would be worth the sacrifice then
We should only join the Euro, if everyone else signs upto English been the 1st spoken and taught langauge. It would be worth the sacrifice then
13 January 2003, 11:22 AM
#21
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Join now while we still have some manufacturing and exporting firms left.
I can't help but think that this will bite us sometime in the future...
Regarding the euro, I really could be convinced either way. I am worried about giving control of part of our economy to a central council, and also more worried about the new entrants to the EU wanting the Euro for the "stability" it brings. Turkey? "Eek", financially speaking...
We should find out what the 5 economic tests are, then hopefully we will start making a decision. IIRC, this year is when Tony announces what they think...
13 January 2003, 06:30 PM
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So lets take a fleeting look......
Germany unemployment rate 9.7%
France unemployment rate 8.9%
Italian unemployment rate 9%
Spanish unemployement rate 10.6%
UK unemployment rate 4.2%
Germany is facing strikes by 2.8 million public sector workers which will further cripple their economy.
In terms of inward Investment (Ernst and Youngs European Investment Monitor Jan to June 2002) the Uk still receives the largest number of projects, 16% vs France in second of 13%, and London is still the top recepient of projects with 6% of the total.
I suspect both of the above are in part due to the good labour relations we have seen in the UK since the miners strike and some in part due to the fact that we have been selective over the parts of the social chapter that we sign.
We maintain control over our interest rates. If housing demand doesn't flatten we may be faced with an interest rate rise. Whether or not you agree the right for our central bank to adjust rates as they feel fit for our economy is important.
Consider the number of countries entering the EU, many from the former Eastern block. One has to raise the question that we will all end up providing cash for these countries to develop, much as Germany has done with the former East German. Whilst very noble I am a believer in charity begins at home.
Prices of goods still differ from City to City so no one can say it has levelled prices across the zones.
We are already a net contributor to the EU and I don't feel they should be getting more of our money. Thank heavens for Maggie and her EU rebate.
On a final note I blame some of the crime rate increases on the European Court of Human Rights, which has softened the line we are able to take with Criminals. Since when did a murderer have any more right than the person they murdered. Political correctness has run wild because of these people... ironically we seem to be (although I have no evidence of this) one of the few states that panders to their every whim.
In conclusion after 3 years of the Euro I don't see how Eurozone countries have any real economic advantage over ourslelves.
In all honesty if push came to shove and we were to align ourselves to anything I would rather see us become an American State rather than a Eurostate. I feel our culture ties in much more closely with theirs.
For your information the following thirteen applicant countries are presently engaged in the process of trying to become members: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Romania, Bulgaria, Malta, Cyprus, Turkey.
Dave
Germany unemployment rate 9.7%
France unemployment rate 8.9%
Italian unemployment rate 9%
Spanish unemployement rate 10.6%
UK unemployment rate 4.2%
Germany is facing strikes by 2.8 million public sector workers which will further cripple their economy.
In terms of inward Investment (Ernst and Youngs European Investment Monitor Jan to June 2002) the Uk still receives the largest number of projects, 16% vs France in second of 13%, and London is still the top recepient of projects with 6% of the total.
I suspect both of the above are in part due to the good labour relations we have seen in the UK since the miners strike and some in part due to the fact that we have been selective over the parts of the social chapter that we sign.
We maintain control over our interest rates. If housing demand doesn't flatten we may be faced with an interest rate rise. Whether or not you agree the right for our central bank to adjust rates as they feel fit for our economy is important.
Consider the number of countries entering the EU, many from the former Eastern block. One has to raise the question that we will all end up providing cash for these countries to develop, much as Germany has done with the former East German. Whilst very noble I am a believer in charity begins at home.
Prices of goods still differ from City to City so no one can say it has levelled prices across the zones.
We are already a net contributor to the EU and I don't feel they should be getting more of our money. Thank heavens for Maggie and her EU rebate.
On a final note I blame some of the crime rate increases on the European Court of Human Rights, which has softened the line we are able to take with Criminals. Since when did a murderer have any more right than the person they murdered. Political correctness has run wild because of these people... ironically we seem to be (although I have no evidence of this) one of the few states that panders to their every whim.
In conclusion after 3 years of the Euro I don't see how Eurozone countries have any real economic advantage over ourslelves.
In all honesty if push came to shove and we were to align ourselves to anything I would rather see us become an American State rather than a Eurostate. I feel our culture ties in much more closely with theirs.
For your information the following thirteen applicant countries are presently engaged in the process of trying to become members: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Romania, Bulgaria, Malta, Cyprus, Turkey.
Dave
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