uncle buck

Underpaid public servants or bullying morons?

I know what I think, just wondering about anyone else?

RaZe-=Buzz=-

i think if they saved my life or my wifes or my sons they could have whatever they wanted.

I'd rather pay them "in case I eve need them" than act like an ostrich because "it'll never happen to me".

ScoobyTal

in a perfect world i would say pay the 100k a year

I have great respect for them and they do a great job

But so do nurses ect

and they work alote more hours

the money has got to come from somwhere

outside of London 22k a year is a good wage, many many qualified people get payed less for many more hours.

Plus the shifts they work in some industries is classed as part time I average about 60 hours a week


Tal

davyboy

If they do get their 30k, expect your council tax to increase next year!

marty_t3

They should take the money from the already over paid tube drivers and give it to the firemen...

MooseRacer

I have to say that demanding a 40% payrise is just stupid. It is never going to happen.
And why, when they have been offered an independant review of their salaries, have they refused it?

Not too much sympathy from me.

AndiThompson

I think they're worth it, cracking job, and we'd be pretty much buggered without them!

uncle buck

They know that, that's why they are bullying morons. Sack 'em all and replace them. That would teach them to try it on!!

If they spent all day every day fighting fires then yes, they may be worth it. But they spend most of the time sat on thier *****. From what I've seen most 'fire fighting' is hosing down old motors that have been torched by scummy kids.

Ok, they deal with the occational emergency and one or two may save the odd life, but that needs to be set against what they do the rest of the time, like posing for calanders and entering the sexiest man in Britain contests and the like.

There are far more deserving cases. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

uncle buck

p.s. if you want to earn 30K for sitting on your ****, get a job in IT

zoog

they get a week off too every third week or something similar, that's why most have second jobs. With annual leave their working year adds up to less than 26 weeks. So £20 doesn't look so bad after all.

Yes they run risks, but why is there a waitling list to join the fire service if it is so bad? No-one leaves voluntarily either. It is in the grip of a cosy little mafia of family connections etcetera, if your face doesn't fit you won't stand a chance of getting a job. They are one of the last unreformed sectors, reminiscent of the print and coal indistries of the 70's and 80's.

Coogie

Sack, and replace them all? - what with people like you UB?

I'm sure the entire country would really appreciate that!

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i assume from you're comments that you've never actually spent any time on an operational fire station, let alone seen the huge amounts of physically and mentally demanding work that these guys carry out?

I tell you what, YOU try coming out in the middle of the night, pitch black, freezing and wet weather conditions, to try and save people's lives, and then remove the not so lucky ones, from burning cars and buildings, and then tell me these guys aren't worth more.

Edited to say - quote - "may save the odd life" - what if that "odd" life was one of you're family (i sincerely hope it's not) - would you're comments be the same?

Nick.

[Edited by Coogie - 10/18/2002 8:02:56 PM]

sebastian

physically and mentally demanding work that these guys carry out?


- What, sitting around in the station reading the Sun and periodically working out with a bench and freeweights to wile away the hours in time for the next calendar or male stripper gig??

They are opportunistically milking the post 9/11 sympathy vote.

[Edited by sebastian - 10/18/2002 8:03:38 PM]

uncle buck

Well, as of next week and for the foreseeable future they aren't going to be around anyway, so it seems practical to replace them rather than put everyone at risk from thier selfish actions. Especially as there is apparently a waiting list to sign up, why not?

Coogie

It's called being on call mate.

Do you really expect buildings to be burning every minute of every day? - if they were - there'd be nothing left already!

uncle buck

Still can't quite grasp why that is physically and mentally demanding though?

Taxi drivers are 'on call' but they don't earn while they wait. They earn when they work.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

About 15 years ago the average fireman brought home 17k, they now earn 21k as an average, if you think that 250 quid per year is a good payrise then you must be mad i bet that you wouldnt like having a 4k payrise over 15 years would you?
Like the armed forces, these guys have been left out, money has been going else where whilst public servants get nothing its a mockery really if you think about it so i think they do deserve a decent payrise to bring them into a bracket where they can live a little more comfortably than they do now.

Tony

Coogie

So it's ok for the Retained service to get rise, but not the WholeTime?

(Retained FireFighters get paid only when they work)

MooseRacer

I'll say it again,

If firemen accepted the independant review of their salaries then they'd get a whole lot more respect.
Demanding 40%, they don't IMHO

Wonder why the review doesnt appeal to them?

ozzy

Following on from the "there worth x number of pounds if they save my families lives" theme, shouldn't we start paying Nurses, Doctors, Surgeons, Paramedics, Life Guards, Lifeboat Crews, etc.. as much money as they want becuase the *may* save a life some day?

In fact, for the sake of money they are prepared to put peoples lives at risk.

Do they deserve a good wage? Yes, but I don't agree with the way they're going about it. And don't start greetin when Taxes go skyward to pay for the 40% increase.

I don't here any of the armed forces asking for £30K a year In fact, I would happily pay the Government for my part-time job.

Stefan

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I seem to remember these people holding the country to ransom 25 years ago, winning, and being WELL satisfied with a good payrise, and a deal that tied future wage rises to the average working man.
If they aren't satisfied now, what happened? Has the average working man taken a pay cut? And if not, then why isn't the average working man about to hold the country to ransom now?
And while I'm in rant mode, why are we expecting the army to take over from these people using out-dated technology, while modern technology lies idle at firestations all over Britain? Why can't the army just walk in and take over the firestation, and all it's technology? It doesn't belong to the firefighters, FFS. If it belongs to anyone, it's ours!
Alcazar [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

marty_t3

Ozzy... contrary to your belief, the armed forces actually pay very well. Friend of mine joined up (Signals) about 5 years ago and is now on just over 28k. He's expecting to be on over 35k in the next 2 to 3 years. On top of his 28k he gets free food, free housing and tax breaks for anything bought on his base (hence he has bought 3 new cars and 2 new bikes in the last 3 years all at massive discounts).

He has admittedly moved up the ranks slightly quicker than most but he joined at the bottom. The money is there if you're willing to work for it. (I would have joined up myself except i'm lazy so got a job in IT)

fatherpierre

Ozzy: you don't hear the armed forces asking for £30k per year because once you've done a few years in the Forces and got on you'll be earning around £30k per year if not more.

[Edited by fatherpierre - 10/18/2002 9:41:53 PM]

marty_t3

Alcazar. I don't think tha army would be using out dated technology. Some of the kit they have now is way ahead of industry standard. On top of that you'll probably find that they are as well trained (if not better) than the firemen we have now.

uncle buck

the proposal is that they will use 1950's green godess machines. I agree they should take over lock stock and barrel - everthing down to clothing and teabags [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

One fireman I saw interviewed called the army guys "squaddies
" - bloody cheek [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

[Edited by uncle buck - 10/18/2002 9:47:18 PM]

fatherpierre

Marty: they are using outdated equipment - Green Goddess circa 1948 with a top speed of 43mph and only a hose on board. As for the training - 5 weeks training for the poor b@stards knobbled to do it.

The RAF was the only service with dedicated, properly trained firemen, but there were only a small number of them at op stations. Their trade has now been chopped and replaced with similarly qualified firemen who aren't allowed to operate off service installations. It's a complete farce. A few friends of mine are on stand by from Monday to do the firemen's job. None of them have a clue what to do, and are genuinely afraid of coming up against a life threatening situation. Some have said they will refuse to risk themselves or even risk treating someone if they don't feel competent.

fatherpierre

They're not allowed to use the Fire Brigade's equipment because that would be seen as breaking the strike!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I rest my case.
Alcazar :

ScoobyK

There are pros and cons to this arguement. All that strikes (excuse the pun) me is Roy Keane gets fined £150,000 which equates to 11 days pay...........and a fireman earns £22,000.

With this and other items that have been in the news recently, it does make you wonder if "great" Briton has lost the plot a little.

Ah well....the weekend is here...

Chip

Why has this demand for a 40% rise come about all of a sudden. They didnt ask for it last year or the year before, or the year before that. Were they happy then?

Whats changed over the past few years to justify this massive increase. Not a lot. So why now.

New Militant union leader I suspect.

Chip.

ozzy

marty_t3 and fatherpierre,

I've first hand experience of the forces myself and know if you work up the ranks, then expect a good wage and a nice pension at the end.

As a rifleman, then it's not quite as rosey. I can only speak about the RM lads, but none of us ever complained about money being our motivation.

Stefan


[Edited by ozzy - 10/18/2002 10:21:24 PM]