Squizz

Okay, I may be being dim, so someone enlighten me...

*IF* Their mobile phone is still charged and turned on, can't a call or SMS message be sent and the service provider tell the police which CELL the phone is in?

Don't phones contact their CELL every few seconds, anyway?

I know for a fact that a call from my mobile to Vodafone traffic reports knows which area I'm in.

Anything to help provide a clue as to where they/the phone might be - Even if just a general geographic area??

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

IIRC this was one of the first things they did but they couldn't pin-point the exact spot, just a rather broad area of Cambs.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yup a cell can cover a quite a few square miles, normally in the region of 12 square miles so its quite hard to get an exact location

Tony

MarkO

You're missing one vital detail: only one of the girls had her phone with her when they went missing, and according to the service provider it's not been turned on since they disappeared.

Claudius

You can locate a mobile phone within a radius of 100 metres or less (if it's switched on).

Grottbags

The problem they found in that area was that the three masts used by the phone company to "pinpoint" the location created something like a 20 mile area that the phone could be in.

It would work quite well due to how close transmitters in cities are, if that's where they were, but in rural areas they are just too far apart.

MarkO

FFS. Nobody's listening to me, I take it?

The problem they found was that the girls' phone was switched off!!!! So the number of masts, the cell size and everything else was completely irrelevant!!!

Grottbags

I'm listening to you, but I was in the middle of typing my reply when you posted

You're correct of course, it helps if it's switched on.

I suspect they'll be keeping an eye open for it in case said abducter switches it on today to read the text message that's been sent.

If he's in a rural area though, they'll have trouble finding him.

MarkO

A masterful piece of understatement.

I suspect that the abductor will be smart enough to figure out that if he turns on the phone, they'll use it to narrow down his location. I suspect he's probably destroyed the phone by now.

Much as it pains me to admit it, I don't hold out much hope of the two girls being found intact now. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Grottbags

I'll admit to being surprised when those patches of disturbed earth were nothing sinister after all.

And he/she may just be stoopid enough not to realise they'll be able to track them when it's switched on.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

I would imagine that is why the newsies didn't explain the significance of the "personal" message to the general public. Nothing the copper is going to say will make him change his mind. He'd better not read SN!

It may be possible to triangulate on signal strength & I would imagine that there would be a few extra scanners in the general area now.

Let us pray that the ****** is not IT literate.

easilybored

I would imagine we are talking about more than one ******.
It is unthinkable what monsters there are in this world.

We can only hope for them and their families.

EB

Squizz

Oops, wrong forum originally - apologies.

Just call me Sherlock Holmes (NOT)

Here's hoping stupidity wins out, and the girls are unharmed...

nichop

From experience the Mobile Service providers are not very quick to help police. When I was car jacked a few years ago my mobile phone was still in the car, hidden and switched on. The police requested Orange to locate the phone. 2 hours later still no response from Orange (by which time its probably been found and switched off) The Police told me this is typical of the Network providers and, not only that, they charge the police £70 for each request. Pathetic !!!

MarkO

I'd imagine that recovering a stolen car would be put at a slightly lower priority than finding two abducted 8-year-old girls who've been missing for a fortnight, though.....

NotoriousREV

I think the police know far more than they're letting on. There's more than the usual hope associated with these personal appeals, it appears they know exactly what they're dealing with. I suspect they've even had some kind of contact with the animal. As for being IT literate, I think the police beleive the gils met this person in an on-line chatroom. All speculation of course.

I hope they find them alive and unharmed.

Tiggs

if the police know something they would hint this to the press- cause right now they are getting hammered by the media and thats no good for them.

as for the chatroom thing i think this has been discounted...in fact it always seemed odd to me- have there EVER been any cases of paedophiles meeting kids via chat rooms??? it seems a very weird way of meeting anyone- you have to hope you meet someone local, some one young, someone daft enough to meet you. i would imagine there are far easier ways to meet kids than that...in fact it reminds me of ppl on here blanking out reg numbers becasue they belive car crokks are scanning the web for targets!

T

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Why do people think that you can find someone by trying to triangulate using cells?
Its pretty much impossable, it tells you which cell it uses and thats it, it finds and keeps the strongest signal, if it cannot find another cell to go to it cannot be tracked as cells are omnidirectional in most cases and cover a radius, you try finding a needle in a haystack, pretty impossible but you know its there.... The cell cannot tell how much power your phone is using but it can tell that its within its area, damn you could be right next to the mast and it wouldnt know
Sorry peeps but you lot watch too many american spy films

Tony

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Yep there have, I remember reading an article ages ago of some real-life scenarios where teenage girls were lured into meetings with supposedly teenage boys only to find out they were middle aged pervs. It happens

Sal

NotoriousREV

Watch the appeal made by the copper in charge. Have you ever seen an appeal like that being made in other abduction cases? I think they had some line of communication with the scumbag which they lost. They were clearly trying to re-open that connection they had.

All IMHO, of course, I could be wrong, but this case does seem very different to the "usual" kids-gone-missing scenario.

As for the paedophiles in chat rooms, I'd say that it does happen regularly, it's very easy to be someone you're not on-line, especially where kids are involved. Not that I've tried, of course.

Barnaby

I think the police are being quite sneaky at the moment. They have suggested the abducter makes contact using the girls mobile.

And as soon as he switches it on....

Paul78

Apparently the tracking is much more accurate than we think, as the cell is subdivided into 3 x 120degree segments ( ie in three triangles ) which they can see. The cells will usually overlap each other as well, so if the radiating concentric circles overlap, then they can almost pinpoint the location ( easier with diagrams ).
Plus the cells vary in size from 5km to 30km, they are not all the same size !

Rgds,

Paul

ChrisB

Tony,

Surely if the phone is on and it's radiating some form of unique ID, then you can nail it with the right equipment?

BuRR

I wouldn't over-estimate the abilities of the mobile phone companies, as Tony rightly states.

krankyd

You can triangulate the position if the phone is being used and a neighburing cell can pick up on the position. Usally there is some overlap, but the modern mobile phones are quite powerfull and can usally pick up a couple of cells at any one time???

AndiThompson

The police know more than there letting on, they seem to be pretty confident they're still alive..

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The cell even though the antenna is broken down into segments cannot spot 1 area as they are all connected together....
You will only have 1 imput to the equiptment (and maybe 1 standby incase of failure of the master) but you cannot segegate any one part of the antenna...
What most people are thinking of is triangulation using detection equiptment, this is easy but using a mobile phone even with its unique id which will still only let you do certain things, unfortunately wont let you pick that certain phone out....
The phone can still be able to pick up 2 or more cells though, it will use the strongest signal, this doesnt have to be the closest cell!!
A large cell will produce more power over a smaller cell, that large cell may inevitably give better reception as the small cell could be in a city centre and the larger cell in a less urban area and if your on the edge of the centre it will find that the flatter clearer area better....
Just think about this for one minute...
how many people have mobile phones?
in 1 square km how many people are going to be on that same network?
Most if not all mobile phones (or associated equiptment) use some form of code division so that more than one can use the same frequency... that complicates matters...
Trust me, this is alot more complicated than triangulating a normal radio transmitter/receiver, they are normally static, mobile phones are not... you can get a rough area but that area can cover alot of square miles

Tony

nichop

Certainly in some areas you can pinpoint quite accurately. I know of two software projects ongoing at the moment where they are using the Mobile cells to locate a person sufficiently well in order to meet them.