Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

As the title says what is the concensus of opinion on here of the police handing out on the spot fines to pedestrians then.

Dream Weaver

A lot of folk will suddenly be called John Smith and live at 1 Main Street (in whichever town you are in)

Worked for me once

DW

astraboy

Innit. go out and drink 25 pints without ID then learn another name and address off by heart.

astraboy.

Katana

I think this is a good idea. It'll take the heat from us motorist for a while..

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Am I right in thinking that I heard the reporter say if you get stopped and don't have any ID on you, you will be arrested and taken down the nick???? surely it is not a crime in the UK to not carry ID or has that changed aswell.????

dogmaul

i think its great due to the fact i wont get one granted they should give this job to traffic cops and let the beat cops get on with other stuff

Reffro

The new tickets willonly be issued to those people who can verify their ID on the spot. If you are unable to verify your ID you will then be arrested and taken to the station, as you would have been previously with or without ID. The idea is to deal with the minor offences more quickly, rather than going down the arrest, paperwork and up before the magistrate in the morning route.

And that's where the scheme I think sucks, provided your carrying ID and most people do nowadays, they can start issuing these tickets like confetti. Previously it was more hassle than it was worth, to arrest, detain, write the report etc etc so you probably would have got a verbal warning and told to p*ss off home. So the easy way round it is to make it more hassle than its worth for them, and refuse the penalty ticket and ask to be arrested and then charged. They'll only do this is they think its worth their while, i.e. just as before.

Hanley

I'm probably going to get slated for this but I think it may be a good idea.

Even if it isn't where is the harm in at least trying it for 1 year.

If you are a thuggish lager lout and get bevvied every night and have fights etc then normally you'll be in front of the magistrate getting a little hand slap.

If, however, he is fined £80 - this is a substantial chunk of his beer money for the week and he'll be gutted. He'll definately think twice about it next time.

Only my opinion but I think that it may be worth a try

Paul


[Edited by Hanley - 8/13/2002 11:24:10 AM]

Reffro

That's a fair argument, but after appearing in front of the magistrate you're going to get a similar dent in the beer fund from the inevitable fine and court costs.

My fear is all this scheme will do is operate just like the Gatso camera, by increasing the number of fines it is possible to levy, without any other benefit. Plus I don't know this bit or not, but by receiving this fine do you then have a criminal record?????

You certainly will if you are brought up in front of the magistrate, and the offences haven't changed, just that you plead guilty and pay a fine more quickly (just like with gatso tickets), so in theory you should have the criminal record too. Now I certainly don't think we all want that one brought up in our next interview or job application.................

[Edited by Reffro - 8/13/2002 11:33:16 AM]

dogmaul

its really just like the having to carry id and things you only need to worry if you know you are gonna get done for it so whats the point of it do you really see the need to go out and get so pissed that you need to hurl abuse at everyone, smash up things and fight if so why ?? I find i have a great night without the need for smashing up a bus shelter or trying to pick a fight with everyone i meet on the streets.

ian/555

Anyone who believes that this new power will not be misused once it becomes widespread must lead a very sheltered life.

ian

NotoriousREV

What happened to innocent until proven guilty? It will be abused ny the police, no doubt about it.

Picture the scene, you're milling about after a night of clubbing, it's gonna be a couple of hours before you find a taxi. You're messing about with a few mates, PC Plod decides he doesn't like the look of you and bam, you all get issued with tickets for nothing other than drunken high spirits.

It's BS and should be stopped immediately.

dogmaul

well i have never been in that situation maybe im just lucky that i manage to keep myself out of harms way on nights out, maybe it will just get people to be better behaved when they are out i dunno but i dont really give a stuff it aint been used in York yet

Jerome

I suspect it will be very successful in terms of revenue generation, so regardless of any complaints, it will become a commonplace practice all over the country.

boomer

The first guy in Brum to be "ticketed" was a 65 year old pensioner who was spoiling for a fight with the Police after drinking too much.

Thus he was served with the £80 ticket at the local police station and then spend the night in the cells sleeping it off.

I can't see much police time being saved there?

mb

Luke

School prefects the lot of them..........

BuRR

ACAB!

The ticket would amount to a summary offence, so if there was no way to confirm someone's identity, then Section 25 of PACE (1984) applies, resulting in the arrest of the offender until their true identity can be determined. Once this has been confirmed, they are released.

Scooby-Doo

I believe it is "drunk and disorderly", so hopefully I can still keel over at London Bridge after a night out and claim I was in no fit state to be disorderly

ian/555

I read earlier that if you stump up the money you will not get a criminal conviction.
If that is the case then the people they are supposedly targeting will be repeat offenders after a couple of months with no Friday night fight action at the kebab van.
This is going to turn into a free for all! Especially if in the future it is linked to performance related pay for the police. Think of it this way, if you are presented with the choice of £40 on the spot fine or goto court and get convicted anyway, and end up with a criminal record, which would you choose? Exactly and the government know it as well, which is why it is going to be adopted all over the country by police forces who can't wait to generate extra income. Which will be used to provide more "policing at arms length" luxury "safe" patrol cars and Gatso's to catch all us bad dangerous taxpayers err sorry I meant criminals, who happen to be easy to trace and extract money from.

ian

boomer

BuRR,

what do you need to confirm identity?

Just wondering, 'cos i don't carry any photo-ID, so my credit cards and SIDC membership could just be from a stolen wallet!

Cheers,

mb

Dracoro

To do this, police need to be out on the streets patrolling. This IS a good thing as it's what people are always complaining about (police never seen anywhere etc.) so to give the fines, the police have to be there on the streets anyway.

I don't really care if they put the fines into operation or not. I'll be fine as I don't act in an antisocial way.
They are trying to introduce this to stop ***** making the streets a dangerous place to be at night. Like many people, I'd like to go out, have some food & drink, go to the cinema, meet some people, have a laugh etc. without fear of some idiot trying to cause me physical harm just because they're arseholes tryiong to blame it on the fact that they are drunk (I get drunk but never get in fights, just have a laugh. If I did get agressive when drunk then I'd not drink as I don't want to be a danger to others)

Regarding police abusing the powers. Well this happens in all areas of law so should we have no laws because some police abuse this. Of course not, that'd be stupid. If a particular policeman abuses his powers, then complain as you would if you got grief in any other fashion form the police. Remember, policemen/women are subject to the law as well if they abuse it.

It's about potentially saving police time, and therefore they'll be out on the streets more if they can deal with idiots quickly then they can spend more time stopping your car getting nicked, after the rapist of your sister, the burlgar who ransacked your parents house, the murderer of your mate etc.

ian/555

The key here is anti-social and the way the police officer wants to interpret what he feels to be anti-social. Sure it all sounds good before you see it in action. I can see this wrongly being used when people are on a legitimate demonstration. Of course the police as a group let alone individualy, never act in a dubious way against legitimate demonstrators, such as holding them for 4 hours without reason when the demonstration is over. Or arresting them for demonstrating against the Chinese government as the powers that be do not want to be embarrassed by their inability to control the population and so lose face. It is the way that this new power can and will be misused, not how it should be used that is the concern here.

ian

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I can't believe this post on got 20 replies, you lot are usually alot more verbal about lesser subjects.

Molds

Will further the gap between the public and Police.

Bad.

johnfelstead

wasnt this idea put forward 12 months ago and abandoned because it couldnt work. There was talk then of marching "offenders" to the cash point to extract the fines.

This is a very bad idea. The police will abuse this power.

Just going back a week with the police holding a group of car enthusiasts for 4 hours, no doubt each of those people would have been fined if this were law at the time.

where is the info on this, i was under the impression this idea was shelved?

BuRR

re identities.... most people will be fine...... how many of us carry bank cards on us with our names on them?

Molds

bugg3r i cant remember my PIN nr

Edited to say my card has now been swallowed

[Edited by Molds - 8/14/2002 7:43:43 PM]

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

John not sure where the info is but it was reported on Sky news aon Monday saying that as of today it will be inforce. Wonder if they will ticket no UK residents.