Labour Proves Power Corrupts?
10 July 2002, 07:26 PM
#2
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Even worse [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] Traffic lights in London are being set to increase congestion and then, as if by magic will be put right again when congestion charging comes in. Therefore proving that congestion charging works.
In buisness this would be called fraud!
In buisness this would be called fraud!
10 July 2002, 07:34 PM
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Very good thread.. Dont be suprised if you get the "if you dont like it Thuck off replies"... My accounts are/will be set up that not one single penny will go to any goverment when I die.I am paying more tax that is required... like most self employed on "Scoobynet" I'm sure its not easy...The people of this country are the reason the Goverments get away with it.. We are weak and dont stand up to them.
10 July 2002, 08:12 PM
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Totally agree. When Blair first came to be head of the Labour party I thought he was a slimy piece of work and not to be trusted and lo and behold that's exactly what he is.
He is only interested in two things - firstly to take us into the Euro come hell or high water, and his ultimate aim is to be President of Europe.
I shan't even bother with the cronies.....
What worries me most of all is that there are a lot of gullible people out there that have now voted him in not once but twice. I fully expect him to serve a third term [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] because of these people, and I expect all these people will also vote yes in the Euro referendum
This country is becoming a laughing stock - I used to despise the French for their attitude; having spent a fair bit of time in France over the last few years I now understand their attitude and admire them.....
He is only interested in two things - firstly to take us into the Euro come hell or high water, and his ultimate aim is to be President of Europe.
I shan't even bother with the cronies.....
What worries me most of all is that there are a lot of gullible people out there that have now voted him in not once but twice. I fully expect him to serve a third term [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] because of these people, and I expect all these people will also vote yes in the Euro referendum
This country is becoming a laughing stock - I used to despise the French for their attitude; having spent a fair bit of time in France over the last few years I now understand their attitude and admire them.....
11 July 2002, 02:29 AM
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Well you only have those who voted for him to blame. Did you all actually believe all the bullsh1t that came past those big false smiley teeth before election??? Dictator springs to mind.
The sooner blair is out of government, and all his fat cronie the better it will be for everyone.
The sooner blair is out of government, and all his fat cronie the better it will be for everyone.
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11 July 2002, 08:36 AM
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Agree totally. It's almost like Tony's having a larf thinking "Everybody must hate the Tories so much if we can dump on the public like this and still get away with it"
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
11 July 2002, 08:52 AM
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Diesel: I totally agree mate.
Have you seen the latest plan that Labour has (accidentally leaked to the press)?
They intend to charge for rubbish collection!
£1 per bag is the current suggestion.
Hang on, don't we pay Council Tax for that?
They say they are doing it to 'reduce the amount of household waste'. Do they really think people will cut down on generating waste because of this, they are more stupid than we gave them credit for.
So say they really are stupid enough to bring in this 'rubbish tax', can you imagine the mess the country will be in because people don't want to pay for the collection so they go all over the place dumping bin bags of their crap? (I'm assuming you would also be charged if you took them to the local tip).
Labour has lost control of it's budgets, is back to it's old tax tax and more tax ways.
This country is dying, and it breaks my heart.
Have you seen the latest plan that Labour has (accidentally leaked to the press)?
They intend to charge for rubbish collection!
£1 per bag is the current suggestion.
Hang on, don't we pay Council Tax for that?
They say they are doing it to 'reduce the amount of household waste'. Do they really think people will cut down on generating waste because of this, they are more stupid than we gave them credit for.
So say they really are stupid enough to bring in this 'rubbish tax', can you imagine the mess the country will be in because people don't want to pay for the collection so they go all over the place dumping bin bags of their crap? (I'm assuming you would also be charged if you took them to the local tip).
Labour has lost control of it's budgets, is back to it's old tax tax and more tax ways.
This country is dying, and it breaks my heart.
11 July 2002, 09:40 AM
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Diesel
Most of your gripes seem to be English problems (particularly London)...which is nice
Blue
Oh, and my heart bleeds that stamp duty on property takes a hike after £250,000
Most of your gripes seem to be English problems (particularly London)...which is nice
Blue
Oh, and my heart bleeds that stamp duty on property takes a hike after £250,000
11 July 2002, 10:16 AM
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Completely agree with everything (bar a certain scots anti english post). Especially Sheepspliters quote.
"This country is dying, and it breaks my heart."
**** you Tony Blair. **** you Labour. The WHOLE country HATES YOU!! Why don't you **** off back to being Bush's Lap dog, or Having your dignity shafted by Brussels. YOU ****. YOU ****ING SELL OUT!
). Especially Sheepspliters quote."This country is dying, and it breaks my heart."
**** you Tony Blair. **** you Labour. The WHOLE country HATES YOU!! Why don't you **** off back to being Bush's Lap dog, or Having your dignity shafted by Brussels. YOU ****. YOU ****ING SELL OUT!
11 July 2002, 10:30 AM
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"Man that's one chip on your shoulder you have there. "
Not really.
A 1/4 million would buy you a 6bed/4bath mansion up here.
Sorry but i've just had enough of Londonites that can't see past their own nose and do nothing but moan about current affairs.
If you don't absolutely need to live in London, stop moaning or get out!
Blue
PS I'm not anti-English, I just don't like them very much
Not really.
A 1/4 million would buy you a 6bed/4bath mansion up here.
Sorry but i've just had enough of Londonites that can't see past their own nose and do nothing but moan about current affairs.
If you don't absolutely need to live in London, stop moaning or get out!
Blue
PS I'm not anti-English, I just don't like them very much
11 July 2002, 11:07 AM
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SD Blue
You miss the point - the housing market is to blame for silly figure houseprices, err not people from London; this as the government sat back and watched.
Whilst you clearly dont give a sh#t for all us clobbered in the South East, I however hope the same does not happen to you, as you too will be forced to swim with the tide, or maybe opt out and live in a cardboard abode..? Then again I may sell up in 10 years pop up there and buy your street; your house I shall turn into a jukebox or maybe a red wine cellar.
I dont need your sympathy (or cynicism either actually) but you would be wise to take note - it could happen to you.
D
You miss the point - the housing market is to blame for silly figure houseprices, err not people from London; this as the government sat back and watched.
Whilst you clearly dont give a sh#t for all us clobbered in the South East, I however hope the same does not happen to you, as you too will be forced to swim with the tide, or maybe opt out and live in a cardboard abode..? Then again I may sell up in 10 years pop up there and buy your street; your house I shall turn into a jukebox or maybe a red wine cellar.
I dont need your sympathy (or cynicism either actually) but you would be wise to take note - it could happen to you.
D
11 July 2002, 11:39 AM
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I don't live in London (in fact, I live pretty near Dave T-S ). But you have to pay stamp duty on any house over £60k -- round my way you can't actually buy a house (or flat) for £60k. There are 1 bed flats going for >£100k so for someone to get to the first rung on the ladder they're going to need to be earning around £29k 
(and have to pay a grand in stamp duty). And now when you're selling you have to pay for this 'sellers report' or something, which doesn't have to be performed by a Surveyor. So although you've paid for it, and the person you're buying off has paid for theirs, you still need to get a survey done on the property you're buying becuase you don't trust their seller's report 
). But you have to pay stamp duty on any house over £60k -- round my way you can't actually buy a house (or flat) for £60k. There are 1 bed flats going for >£100k so for someone to get to the first rung on the ladder they're going to need to be earning around £29k (and have to pay a grand in stamp duty). And now when you're selling you have to pay for this 'sellers report' or something, which doesn't have to be performed by a Surveyor. So although you've paid for it, and the person you're buying off has paid for theirs, you still need to get a survey done on the property you're buying becuase you don't trust their seller's report
11 July 2002, 11:51 AM
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Dont bottle it mate - let it out, but dont lets hijack this into a Scots v English debate will you? Your grandfather did actually sign the Act of Union as it was in his interest to do so many years ago, and you do pay less stamp duty on quaint stone cottages...
D
D
11 July 2002, 11:57 AM
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I'm an accountant.
One of the things I know well is that I can boost the profits of the company very simply, by simply not investing. Instead of buying new company cars, I just run the old ones for a few more years until they're clapped out.
But hold on a minute, isn't that more expensive? In the long run, yes. Everyone knows that if you don't invest for a long time that when you eventually come to fix things it will cost more overall.
On a macro level, that's exactly what's happened to this country. Schools, roads, rail ... all were raped by the Tories. Sure, they gave you tax cuts, but what they didn't tell you was what the long-term effects would be. The Tories privatised everything, spent the oil revenue, and have left us in the mess to sort it out.
Don't take this as some sort of massive endorsement for Blair et al (this voter LEFT the Labour Party when he was elected) but it's a little unfair to heap the woes of the world solely on his head.
I don't like the fact that I pay 40% tax then have to pay again to get a decent education for my daughter. Then again, I see that company car tax (for me) has halved, that the NHS is working (don't laugh, I've needed hospital treatment several times over the last few years and EACH TIME it's been excellent) and that there are fewer poor (properly poor, not 'I can't afford a new spoiler AND new wheels for my Scoob this month' poor)people in this country than ever. We've got low inflation and practically full employment.
Am I happy? No - I'd like the education service to improve and I'd like public transport to work properly. Thing is though, I recognise that everything costs money. NOTHING is for free. The local education service spends about £1000 per nursery-age child per year in my area - my daughter's school fees are more than that per term! Then again, I see the difference and I'm prepared to pay for it, though I'd rather pay more in taxes so everyone could benefit from a really good education service.
And taxation really is the only way people listen - if you don't believe me, look at the number of people switching to diesels as their company car. Better for them (pay less tax, even allowing for the diesel surcharge), better for the country (OK, more soot, but less oil usage overall). It's all come about because of the recent tax changes.
I don't agree with this government about speeding, I don't agree on cannabis decriminalisation ...... there are a vast number of things I don't agree on. But to see all other countries as some sort of panacea is, I'm afraid, an exercise in self-delusion.
Bros
PS Don't even start with the 'untrustworthy' tag re the current government. Do the names Hamilton, Aitken and Archer mean anything to you?
One of the things I know well is that I can boost the profits of the company very simply, by simply not investing. Instead of buying new company cars, I just run the old ones for a few more years until they're clapped out.
But hold on a minute, isn't that more expensive? In the long run, yes. Everyone knows that if you don't invest for a long time that when you eventually come to fix things it will cost more overall.
On a macro level, that's exactly what's happened to this country. Schools, roads, rail ... all were raped by the Tories. Sure, they gave you tax cuts, but what they didn't tell you was what the long-term effects would be. The Tories privatised everything, spent the oil revenue, and have left us in the mess to sort it out.
Don't take this as some sort of massive endorsement for Blair et al (this voter LEFT the Labour Party when he was elected) but it's a little unfair to heap the woes of the world solely on his head.
I don't like the fact that I pay 40% tax then have to pay again to get a decent education for my daughter. Then again, I see that company car tax (for me) has halved, that the NHS is working (don't laugh, I've needed hospital treatment several times over the last few years and EACH TIME it's been excellent) and that there are fewer poor (properly poor, not 'I can't afford a new spoiler AND new wheels for my Scoob this month' poor)people in this country than ever. We've got low inflation and practically full employment.
Am I happy? No - I'd like the education service to improve and I'd like public transport to work properly. Thing is though, I recognise that everything costs money. NOTHING is for free. The local education service spends about £1000 per nursery-age child per year in my area - my daughter's school fees are more than that per term! Then again, I see the difference and I'm prepared to pay for it, though I'd rather pay more in taxes so everyone could benefit from a really good education service.
And taxation really is the only way people listen - if you don't believe me, look at the number of people switching to diesels as their company car. Better for them (pay less tax, even allowing for the diesel surcharge), better for the country (OK, more soot, but less oil usage overall). It's all come about because of the recent tax changes.
I don't agree with this government about speeding, I don't agree on cannabis decriminalisation ...... there are a vast number of things I don't agree on. But to see all other countries as some sort of panacea is, I'm afraid, an exercise in self-delusion.
Bros
PS Don't even start with the 'untrustworthy' tag re the current government. Do the names Hamilton, Aitken and Archer mean anything to you?
11 July 2002, 12:10 PM
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Agree with a lot of the sentiment on here. Not being overly politically minded, I just wish all the different political parties would stop bitching and blaming each other and sort the sodding problems out [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Yes, other countries round the world need our help, but wouldn't it be good advice to also sort our own problems out first?
Miffed....
Yes, other countries round the world need our help, but wouldn't it be good advice to also sort our own problems out first?
Miffed....
11 July 2002, 01:38 PM
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Bros,
I understand where you're coming from.
BUT the big problem I have with the current administration is that they made many promises about improving services, ending sleaze etc and it just isn't happening. Now there are many reasons as to why certain promises haven't been kept - and though never having supported Labour I can fully appreciate that no government can keep every 'vote for me' promise - why the f*ck then employ so many weasily PR spin-doctors / political 'advisers' to try & pretend that promises have been kept? Why am I paying for these people to tell me what I already know to be untrue??
Hugh
I understand where you're coming from.
BUT the big problem I have with the current administration is that they made many promises about improving services, ending sleaze etc and it just isn't happening. Now there are many reasons as to why certain promises haven't been kept - and though never having supported Labour I can fully appreciate that no government can keep every 'vote for me' promise - why the f*ck then employ so many weasily PR spin-doctors / political 'advisers' to try & pretend that promises have been kept? Why am I paying for these people to tell me what I already know to be untrue??
Hugh
11 July 2002, 02:26 PM
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Bros good answer mate - but it does not change my perception that I am being screwed every which way possible.
Was thinking as I was riding safely but illegally in the new Marleybone bus lane on way to work that it was my road fund licence (well the small percentage of it that actually goes on roads) that paid for it, but I'm now not allowed to use it. 'Weave your way through traffic young man & hope you dont get clobbered, there ist no way ye shall use the bus lane forthwith'. Of course commercial enterprise is allowed to use the lane exclusively - if you have sufficient resources to privately hire the most expensive cabs in Europe, then this is now your lucky thoroughfare. Preach road safety with a £££ camera at every corner but make bikes and scooters wrestle their way through traffic - great logic!
As you are an accountant is there a way to minimise the 'having a home' tax (stamp duty)? If the missus bought the house for £249,999 and I bought the lovely double garage for the balance, would this avoid the 3% penalty that will cost me £50 a month for 25 years? Need a clause to say that neither could be sold separately though...
Maybe I should give up and move to Scotland - but NO! I think I'm angry enough on these issues to do more than just rant here. Fight like Wallace the Braveheart covered in woad! Parliament Square here I come!!!
Was thinking as I was riding safely but illegally in the new Marleybone bus lane on way to work that it was my road fund licence (well the small percentage of it that actually goes on roads) that paid for it, but I'm now not allowed to use it. 'Weave your way through traffic young man & hope you dont get clobbered, there ist no way ye shall use the bus lane forthwith'. Of course commercial enterprise is allowed to use the lane exclusively - if you have sufficient resources to privately hire the most expensive cabs in Europe, then this is now your lucky thoroughfare. Preach road safety with a £££ camera at every corner but make bikes and scooters wrestle their way through traffic - great logic!
As you are an accountant is there a way to minimise the 'having a home' tax (stamp duty)? If the missus bought the house for £249,999 and I bought the lovely double garage for the balance, would this avoid the 3% penalty that will cost me £50 a month for 25 years? Need a clause to say that neither could be sold separately though...
Maybe I should give up and move to Scotland - but NO! I think I'm angry enough on these issues to do more than just rant here. Fight like Wallace the Braveheart covered in woad! Parliament Square here I come!!!
11 July 2002, 02:28 PM
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Huge,
Not saying I disagree with your stance, though to be honest I think the 'spin' thing is probably overblown by the papers. However, I'd take 'spin' over 'sleaze' any day.
I wonder, though, whether the reason that many of us (myself included) are so disappointed is because we were so fed up with the last government, and genuinely thought that things could change quickly. Maybe the government even believed it themselves.
But you just have to look at the open sore that is Railtrack (or whatever it's called now) to realise that the scale of the problems was WAY beyond what everyone believed possible. It's fair to blame Labour for the way they've dealt with the issue (and especially the way they communicated this) but hardly reasonable to have a go at them for what they picked up.
Governments have always lied. They probably always will. A lot of voters genuinely believed that this government was somehow different, and I suspect it's these people who are the most disappointed.
But look at it in the cold light of day. Cynically, Labour may well think that they don't really care about your vote. Where are the dissatisfied Labour voters going to go? Some to the Tories, sure, but most people still don't know who their leader is (another Hague, soon to be discarded), and some (but not enough to make any difference) to the LibDems. Like him or not, Blair is a world-level statesman and as such is the only game in town at present.
Bros
Not saying I disagree with your stance, though to be honest I think the 'spin' thing is probably overblown by the papers. However, I'd take 'spin' over 'sleaze' any day.
I wonder, though, whether the reason that many of us (myself included) are so disappointed is because we were so fed up with the last government, and genuinely thought that things could change quickly. Maybe the government even believed it themselves.
But you just have to look at the open sore that is Railtrack (or whatever it's called now) to realise that the scale of the problems was WAY beyond what everyone believed possible. It's fair to blame Labour for the way they've dealt with the issue (and especially the way they communicated this) but hardly reasonable to have a go at them for what they picked up.
Governments have always lied. They probably always will. A lot of voters genuinely believed that this government was somehow different, and I suspect it's these people who are the most disappointed.
But look at it in the cold light of day. Cynically, Labour may well think that they don't really care about your vote. Where are the dissatisfied Labour voters going to go? Some to the Tories, sure, but most people still don't know who their leader is (another Hague, soon to be discarded), and some (but not enough to make any difference) to the LibDems. Like him or not, Blair is a world-level statesman and as such is the only game in town at present.
Bros
11 July 2002, 02:47 PM
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Hence the snazzy thread title guys - it is not being Tory or Labour that corrupts - it is power, selfishness, and the desire to hang on to power. Always has been, always will be...
11 July 2002, 04:02 PM
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It says something about the way we get treated by our government, whoever is in when, due election time, I always vote for another party! I do, however, think that Labour have been by far the worst for as long as I can remember..... Every day, it seems, you hear of another way they want to screw you.....
11 July 2002, 04:12 PM
#30
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I do, however, think that Labour have been by far the worst for as long as I can remember.....