Dr Hu

Well as its quiet on the NSR Forum what do we think of all this then?
Blanket 20mph in all towns in Wales from Saturday!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66774380

News reports saying Welsh Labour, headed by Mark Drakeford - have lost the plot - Penny Mordaunt of the Tories calls it insane...
It WILL increase emissions and driving time, costing Billions according to Wales own Parliament.

Seems similar to the ULEZ arguments running in London and elsewhere currently, seems to be becoming a massive political football - with pundits saying the General Election may be won or lost on the 'War on the Motorist'.
Rishi Sunak seems to be getting cold feet on the 'green crap' as David Cameron called it - and you can sort of see why...
Angela Raynor of Labour says she wants to see a ULEZ in 'every town and city in the country' if Labour win the GE.

Plus the upcoming proposed ZEV MANDATE, where all UK car manuafactuers will be fined £15,000 per ICE vehicle they sell not inside the arbitary BEV target. (£18k for vans/pick-ups!)
2024 - 22% of all registrations per manufacturer to be full BEV
2025 - 28%
2026 - 33%
2027 - 38%
2028 - 52%
2029 - 66%

What about Manufactuers who don't yet have a full BEV range? Toyota? - considered leaders in the electric area only have one model full BEV - Hybrids don't count at all to the ZEV Mandate...
Suzuki, Alfa, Land Rover, Dacia, Bentley, Honda, Aston, Rolls, Seat, plus nearly all exotica - none of these have a BEV? - many BIG manufacturers have tiny range of BEV, Ford? Mazda?, Jeep, even Subaru... how many manufactuers will simply leave the UK market, rather than get fined £15k per ICE vehicle they sell?
They simply will not WANT to sell you an ICE vehicle - so massive UK vehicle supply crisis incoming......

Vans and Pick-ups even worse - full BEV Transit anyone with next to no payload left?, Farmers Pick-Ups towing tri-axle trailers full of livestock?, Tradesmen, Plant Hire movers... electric vans/pick-ups? - hahahaha
And how do you actually charge a car towing a Caravan mid-journey?, a Pick-Up towing livestock trailer? not on an public chargers you dont... charger layouts like this don't exist! Heck, no 4x4 BEV Pick-Up exists in Europe!

War on the Motorist? - discuss!

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

What is BEV and ZEV Mandate?

Dr Hu

BEV = Battery Electric Vehicle (i.e Full EV)

ZEV Mandate - Zero Emissions Vehicle Mandate - basically the UK govt have promised they will go full EV by 2030 (5 yrs ahead of EU) and are now trying to force the entire worldwide Motor Industry to produce EV vehicles quicker than their natural model cycle (because we're the UK right...!) Conveniently ignoring the fact that globally we are a tiny RHD only market)

IdonthaveaScooby

Everybody will go 25 instead of 35 , job done

(they are not prosecuting for this )


its not true that its is ONLY a few people that ingnore 30ph zones , it is the VAST majority in fact


my 22 y/o 2l petrol goes through ulez , and probably will on next time too

I dont really have any sympathy

IdonthaveaScooby

Would we havre had more battery plants if the public were not daft enough to be duped into Brexit

remind us all again which party/ leader pretended it was a good idea

IdonthaveaScooby

Your tories now happy to flout not only air quality but water quality laws for then benefit

their shareholder mates

JdmSti2006

does not matter who is in charge ,lobby will find a way to them

IdonthaveaScooby

Penny Mordant has / is intent on prolonging an insane war with Russia , no compromises no discussion , just feathering the beds of those who profit

JackClark

Good, do it in my town please and put cameras up.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I'll just drive round in 1st gear everywhere; Much easier to keep it below 20mph then.

I'm sure they'll love the noise.

domino46

we have had it at 20mph in bristol for years now ,,, right pain in the **** but most still drive at a regular speed

IdonthaveaScooby

so they do 30 in a what was a 30, instead of 45 ??

domino46

no they do 30 in a 20 ,, who drives at 45 in 30 zones as I know I don't lol

BMWhere?

Unfortunately far too many people drive at 40/45 in a 30 zone. They are usually the one's who then continue to drive at 40/45 in a 60 zone!

trails

iTrader: (41)

Should be 20mph in all residential areas...hopefully it will stop the ejits driving around at 35 in them.

apac

iTrader: (2)

I live in Cardiff. On the first days a few law abiding citizens drove at 20mph, until even they realised it really is too slow. Now everyone seems to be back to driving like before. In residential streets, it's common sense to drive slow. It's not needed on main roads. Blanket ban is daft.
it will only change if it begins to be enforced by mobile and static traps. Then word will get around and everyone will be more cautious.

I'm fine with it, in fact it's better than before, I can now overtake three cars in front of me and not just the one. But seriously, it ain't going to stop people who drive fast from driving fast unless there's a camera van at the end of every road.

Governments will inevitably keep rolling back mandates on ICE production as the income from this is too big, and infrastructure too small for EV. But alas, the everyday motorists will be flogged further so governments can say they are tackling things, even though it's not really doing anything.

IdonthaveaScooby

Cant really make head tail this , So youre voting tory ??

I doubt this was ever about crazy drivers , more about people dissuading people from doing 40 in a 30/20 area

apac

iTrader: (2)

I don't vote politically on how fast or slow I can drive. Tories are using this as voting strategy , not me.

According to Mark Drakeford it's to lower bills and pressures on the nhs and to save seven lives a year.

IdonthaveaScooby

Seem to be rather more than this seriously injured

https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/...s-2022-681.pdf

nothing compared to those dying as a result of vaccine mandates of course , from untreated ailments brought on by bad diet at the behest corporate greed

BMWhere?

As I understand it, its not a blanket ban per se. Major roads through towns and villages remain 30mph, it's only actually the residential roads that are restricted to 20mph. I feel the Tory controlled press have been somewhat misleadingly pushing the "blanket ban" line without highlighting the fact that main roads don't change.

20mph is perfectly ok for residential roads IMHO, 20mph on major thoroughfares would be ridiculous, which is why they have been left at 30mph!

apac

iTrader: (2)

within a city or town, majority of roads are residential. But yes, some Major roads remain 30mph. I agree that when driving through streets and estates common sense tells you to drive 20mph, I always have and always will. However, all roads without mph sign or roads with street lights you MUST assume are 20mph. In Wales, that is a lot of roads.

hedgecutter

iTrader: (5)

We've had a street in St Just, Cornwall that's been 20mph for over 25 years. That's because a 4 year old child was killed there, running out of one of the terrace alleyways.
Two months ago, an 11 year old Ukrainian refugee cycled out of one of the alleys in front of me, into my wing. No helmet. Listening to a speaker in one hand.
He was unharmed because I was going 18mph.
If you think it's ok to do 30 in a 20, or 40 in a 30, you need to grow up, and get some perspective on your own selfish attitude.

IdonthaveaScooby

Well yo only need see stopping distances , per 10 mph of speed - even if you are a driving god / right on the button mentally


Mind you - I dont think im imagining it , there seems to be a lot more people walking around with those full headphones on these days

maybe its to shut off the possibility having to talk people , who knows

just hope they not shutting off traffic too

apac

iTrader: (2)

Jesus man, that's a bit harsh. The roads have been 30mph up to now for decades, but suddenly anyone doing over 20mph is a selfish child with no perspective? Anyway, you just sold me a decat downpipe so I can go faster....., I think that's a bit irresponsible of you.... lol

So all roads to 20mph in England soon?

hedgecutter

iTrader: (5)

Just saying that there is a statistical reason for lowering to 20mph on residential roads. There is a much higher chance of survival at 20mph for a child. This is the second time in my life that I have witnessed a child being knocked down; the 1st was in my previous village, where a local van hit a kid messing about on a bike. He had children himself in that road, so was going 20 in a 30. Kid was knocked out but otherwise unharmed.
It's harsh enough to knock a kid down doing the limit. Even harsher for the family and driver if the kid dies.

IdonthaveaScooby

I can understand youthful exuberance / the pressure on delivery drivers
find it baffling that Mothers with children / grandparent age people push to go 40 plus in a 30

apac

iTrader: (2)

I totally agree that in residential streets 20mph is more than enough. But this is a blanket change, and is so much more than residential.

Richy P1984

No issues with 20mph in the right locations where it makes sense. In fact I drive past a primary school every day, which is rammed with SRMs and cars bumper to bumper down both sides of the road, not to mention all the pulling out with out properly checking mirrors (a rant for another day). The real surprise is that the road is a 30mph, and I have to admit it feels unsafe to drive at that speed during drop off and pick up times - I do 20-25 just to be sure.

BMWhere?

Thats what gets me a lot with speed cameras, they put them where speeding is not a real problem then nothing in front of schools.

There's a village here that's 30kmh (~20mph), on a wide main road, then towards the end of the village it changes to 50kmh (~30mph) just before a public swimming pool and two junior schools. There are also three speed cameras in the 30kmh zone and nothing in the 50 zone!

apac

iTrader: (2)

20mph in Wales will be enforced from December 1st. I know this means mobile speed camera's, I am assuming that all permanent speed traps that were 30mph will become 20mph. 24mph will get you fine and points.