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I do not really want to have a set of summer and winter tyres so what are all-year-round tyres like in reality? a reasonable alternative to two sets of tyres?
I do not really want to have a set of summer and winter tyres so what are all-year-round tyres like in reality? a reasonable alternative to two sets of tyres?
cheers
There are plenty of very good all-season tyres available now, from pretty much every major (and not-so major) manufacturer. You'd need to read the reviews for the exact size and spec you need, but Bridgestone, Michelin and Good-Year seem to come out close to top in most.
Oh, and be prepared to wait a good couple of weeks for the things to arrive, if you decide on something particular that doesn't happen to be stocked locally (thank you Brexit and Covid).
Michelin CrossClimate on the wifes Leggy which are pretty good in general................being hyper critical they don't have quite as much wet grip as the likes of Rainsports but for ease and year round use then they are spot on
On the subject of tyres what's this new rule coming in this year on MOTs regarding the age of tyres, had to take my girls car in to my local tyre place as she had a puncture and the bloke mentioned that their gonna start checking the age of the tyre along side condition of the tyre and if a tyre is more then 5 year old it will fail the MOT summit to do with people buying part worn tyres that may of sat about for years.
I do not really want to have a set of summer and winter tyres so what are all-year-round tyres like in reality? a reasonable alternative to two sets of tyres?
cheers
Jack of all trades, master of none, if you ask me! Depends to a certain extent on the car your fitting them to, but you simply cant beat having the right tyre for the right conditions!
Set of winters on a second set of rims will only take you an hour or so to swap over and also gives you a chance to swap fronts to rear once a year to even the wear out.
As for checking the tyres age at MoT, that's a really good idea. Don't forget that tyres are the one thing that keep you on the road and should never be overlooked!
I bet they were more than willing to sell her a new tyre
Lol nah to be fair was a quick ten quid repair jobbygetting back to this new 5 year tyre age rule if true ain't great if your car ain't used much year to year mileage wise, you'll be changing tyres that have plenty of tread on in theory just coz their of a certain year of manufacture.
Lol nah to be fair was a quick ten quid repair jobbygetting back to this new 5 year tyre age rule if true ain't great if your car ain't used much year to year mileage wise, you'll be changing tyres that have plenty of tread on in theory just coz their of a certain year of manufacture.
just for MOT , then fire them back on the car. Unless the police start to check aswell.
The advantage of winter tyres are when driving on snow or frozen roads and when the temps are below 5c. If you aren't regularly driving in those conditions (which applies to 90%) of the UK, then a quality summer tyre will out perform any all-season/winter tyre in typical UK "winter" conditions ie: rain.
Michelin Cross-Climates are fine on a normal driving car but obviously a compromise on a sporty car.
I have "Michelin Cross climate plus" on the rear of my current car with "Cross Climate 2" on the front. I've had Cross Climate tyres on my last three cars. They are an excellent all season tyre.
Sure, they are not the best dry tyre, wet tyre, or snow or ice tyre, but they do the job very well. They are plenty capable on cars with a decent amount of power and torque. I have them on a BMW 335 xdrive remapped to 360bhp and 720Nm torque.
Michelin CrossClimate on the wifes Leggy which are pretty good in general................being hyper critical they don't have quite as much wet grip as the likes of Rainsports but for ease and year round use then they are spot on
I found the Rain Sports to be great at stopping in the wet but the soft tyre wall (even the XL version) collapsed in corners. I'll never use them again. I'm on Eagle F1 tyres now with no complaints.
The advantage of winter tyres are when driving on snow or frozen roads and when the temps are below 5c. If you aren't regularly driving in those conditions (which applies to 90%) of the UK, then a quality summer tyre will out perform any all-season/winter tyre in typical UK "winter" conditions ie: rain.
Michelin Cross-Climates are fine on a normal driving car but obviously a compromise on a sporty car.
Rubbish! This is the typical misunderstanding of winter tyres, thinking they are for snow driving!
Winter tyres work well on snow and ice, but they are not snow tyres. Winter tyres are designed to work for typical Central and Northern European winter conditions which generally means cooler temperatures and wetter driving conditions. Snow tyres may be studded or unstudded are are designed to work in conditions where snow and ice much colder temperatures are the norm such as in Scandinavia.
The operating range of summer tyres is generally >8°C, while winter tyres are typically <14°C. So you have a crossover between 8°C and 14°C where both tyres will work well. Winter tyres however have a huge performance advantage in the wet compared summer tyres.
Given typical British winter conditions are <14°C and usually wet, winter tyres are absolutely the best choice! They are ideal for cooler wetter British winters and will keep you going on the odd occasion it snows.
Rubbish! This is the typical misunderstanding of winter tyres, thinking they are for snow driving!
Winter tyres work well on snow and ice, but they are not snow tyres. Winter tyres are designed to work for typical Central and Northern European winter conditions which generally means cooler temperatures and wetter driving conditions. Snow tyres may be studded or unstudded are are designed to work in conditions where snow and ice much colder temperatures are the norm such as in Scandinavia.
The operating range of summer tyres is generally >8°C, while winter tyres are typically <14°C. So you have a crossover between 8°C and 14°C where both tyres will work well. Winter tyres however have a huge performance advantage in the wet compared summer tyres.
Given typical British winter conditions are <14°C and usually wet, winter tyres are absolutely the best choice! They are ideal for cooler wetter British winters and will keep you going on the odd occasion it snows.
Oh is it that time of year when we dredge up this old chestnut again
Just leave em to it Al, they do not want to be saved, you just can't help stupid and ignorant, plus they don't want to be European so why would they want our nasty European tyres?
Oh is it that time of year when we dredge up this old chestnut again
Just leave em to it Al, they do not want to be saved, you just can't help stupid and ignorant, plus they don't want to be European so why would they want our nasty European tyres?
Sadly mate yes, the annual posts from people who've never driven winter tyres claiming they're pointless in the UK
Don't forget folks, while you've got winter tyres fitted, the summer tyres are not wearing out, so they last longer and your net tyre costs are the same!
Oh is it that time of year when we dredge up this old chestnut again
Just leave em to it Al, they do not want to be saved, you just can't help stupid and ignorant, plus they don't want to be European so why would they want our nasty European tyres?
No need to be rude, self righteous and patronising at the same time. Stick to your Brexit thread if you've got nothing helpful or nice to say. Plenty of us use snow and mud tyres and understand the benefits on even wet, leafy roads. Some of us don't get to drive aboard in a continental climate, and so dont understand the benefits.
The pro-winter tyre brigade do often forget to mention how badly it affects handling on a performance car: Even in wet/damp between 5 and 10C. The PS4 Michelins will outhandle and outbrake my Dunlop Wintersport 5s in wet/damp at 5degrees ambient condition (although tyre friction means the carcass is actually much warmer), same car, same tyre size, same roads; The only time they excel is in country lanes which are covered in mud from agricultural traffic and field run off, and when there's a frost on ungritted roads.
BUT Not everything is linear with various brands and models. For example:
Wintersport 5s are far far better at gripping in damp/wet 5C degrees than Landsail or Goodrides...which oddly have M+S markings. Same goes for some premium tyres like RE050s and P-Zero Rossos which generally fall off a cliff below 10c and also harden/degrade after 3years if parked outside in the sun.
So to me it boils down to this...do I need that particular car to commute in really bad weather? Annoyingly, yes. So it has winters and I adjust my driving to the cars limitations until I can get my PS4 summers back on ASAP; The infernal Dunnys only stay on for 4months tops.
Would I run all run all-seasons? Not on a performance car. But one day I may decide to buy an AWD shed to use for bad weather commutes, transporting the dogs and hauling general shyte to the tip. Where performance/handling is going to be lower on the list of priorities. In that circumstance I will likely fit a good set of branded All-seasons.
Last edited by ALi-B; 08 January 2022 at 10:40 AM.
Ok, thanks all. And do low profile winter tyres work as well as non-low profile ones? Need to know if i need a pair of smaller winter rims.
In snow, it's an advantage to run a larger profile, thinner tyre but you will take a hit in performance on dry roads. I run Pirelli Sottozero winter tyres on 235/45R17 compared to Pirelli P-Zero on 245/40R18 summer tyres. Given the winter conditions here in the Swiss/Austria border region of Germany I find it the perfect choice; the drop in performance from the tyre size is made up by the increased performance die to weather conditions. On the occasional warm winter day >18°C then they become very squidgy (which is actually quite fun to drive), otherwise the performance of the tyres is beyond my driving talent!
If I was back in the UK (West Lancashire), then I would probably stick with the same the size as summers. I'd only fit a larger profile if I lived in a more hilly rural area where snow is more common such as Pennines, lake District or Scotland.
Just BM. My standard tyres are 19s. Was just wondering if they are too large for winter tyres or whether i would need smaller wheels to get the best winter tyres.
Just BM. My standard tyres are 19s. Was just wondering if they are too large for winter tyres or whether i would need smaller wheels to get the best winter tyres.
Winter tyres are available in most of the sizes you can get summer tyres in. Check the tyre manufacturers pages for available sizes.
As I said above, if you have generally snow free winters and no steep hills around, they you would be OK with the same tyre size as the summer tyres. If you more in the countryside, with a little more snow and less snow-ploughs or many steep hills around, they you would be better dropping a size - the general rule is -1" radius and -10mm width - the profile index usually increases by 5 as you drop the radius and width, but use a tyre size calculator to check for the optimum rolling radius - ideally you should aim to be within 1% and definitely no more than 3%!
The pro-winter tyre brigade do often forget to mention how badly it affects handling on a performance car: Even in wet/damp between 5 and 10C. The PS4 Michelins will outhandle and outbrake my Dunlop Wintersport 5s in wet/damp at 5degrees ambient condition (although tyre friction means the carcass is actually much warmer), same car, same tyre size, same roads; The only time they excel is in country lanes which are covered in mud from agricultural traffic and field run off, and when there's a frost on ungritted roads.
BUT Not everything is linear with various brands and models. For example:
Wintersport 5s are far far better at gripping in damp/wet 5C degrees than Landsail or Goodrides...which oddly have M+S markings. Same goes for some premium tyres like RE050s and P-Zero Rossos which generally fall off a cliff below 10c and also harden/degrade after 3years if parked outside in the sun.
So to me it boils down to this...do I need that particular car to commute in really bad weather? Annoyingly, yes. So it has winters and I adjust my driving to the cars limitations until I can get my PS4 summers back on ASAP; The infernal Dunnys only stay on for 4months tops.
Would I run all run all-seasons? Not on a performance car. But one day I may decide to buy an AWD shed to use for bad weather commutes, transporting the dogs and hauling general shyte to the tip. Where performance/handling is going to be lower on the list of priorities. In that circumstance I will likely fit a good set of branded All-seasons.
Sorry ALI; I normally respect what you post but this is crap "The pro-winter tyre brigade do often forget to mention how badly it affects handling on a performance car:" it is winter and you are in the UK you will have modified your driving style to the conditions so that takes the performance car part out of the equation.
However I can still throw my car around in the winter in winter conditions with winter tyres on and have a lot of fun.
Catch you next year about this time for the same conversation.
Sorry ALI; I normally respect what you post but this is crap "The pro-winter tyre brigade do often forget to mention how badly it affects handling on a performance car:" it is winter and you are in the UK you will have modified your driving style to the conditions so that takes the performance car part out of the equation.
However I can still throw my car around in the winter in winter conditions with winter tyres on and have a lot of fun.
Catch you next year about this time for the same conversation.
No...missing the point again: When it's 8 degrees outside and dry or damp (as it commonly is - even today which is a "cold snap"). I tell you now if I emergency brake or even just brake a bit harder/abruptly than normal (say a Prius doing 30mph dives into my lane without warning) whilst doing 70mph on a straight motorway the damn thing will wobble and squirm like the wishbone bushes are shot. (they aren't...replaced all the rubber suspension components during lockdown #1 boredom ). If I were to panic and over-correct (which the average driver tends to do) that would create a pendulum tank slapper.
The same conditions with PS4 no issue. No drama. It just stops clean and straight. Stopping distances are definitely shorter too (probably from less ESP involvement).
So when on the Wintersports, I have to be gentle and gradually progressive on control inputs, a bit like my series Land Rover which is on M/T crossplies, when with the PS4 I never have to think about it, even when it's cold and wet! So I'm often thinking should buy and use a shed to drive in winter instead.
Now you can argue maybe a different brand of winters or all-seasons "could" perform better. But I need to fork out another £500 to find that out. On the same logic I will state a more summer/dry focussed tyre say, RE070 will also be very bad in the cold and wet where swapping it seasonally would be more advantageous. So I'll very much say what may work for you or me won't work for everyone; Lincolnshire or the South West tends to be much more milder that the extremities of the Grampians or Pennines; My uncle and aunt are home-care support workers and trundle across mid wales in a 2WD Yeti wearing Hankook All-seasons without much issue; The OEM Pirelli P7s wouldn't even get it off my flat driveway in 5mm of snow! But that's not a performance car.
So, assuming you're part of the brigade and I missed it; Where have you specifically mentioned and warned that winter tyres may negatively and adversely affects the handling and stability of performance cars?
I will admit to being able to throw it about a lot more on lower speed bends and mini roundabouts etc. "can be fun" because it's easy to unstick the rear end now, but I'd rather it just grip to be honest, because one day doing that kind of thing will bite me on the **** typically when I least expect it. Much like not seeing the Prius or Mini (yes, I swear it's only Minis and hybrids that do this) on the slip road diving straight for lane 3 with impunity.
No...missing the point again: When it's 8 degrees outside and dry or damp (as it commonly is - even today which is a "cold snap"). I tell you now if I emergency brake or even just brake a bit harder/abruptly than normal (say a Prius doing 30mph dives into my lane without warning) whilst doing 70mph on a straight motorway the damn thing will wobble and squirm like the wishbone bushes are shot. (they aren't...replaced all the rubber suspension components during lockdown #1 boredom ). If I were to panic and over-correct (which the average driver tends to do) that would create a pendulum tank slapper.
The same conditions with PS4 no issue. No drama. It just stops clean and straight. Stopping distances are definitely shorter too (probably from less ESP involvement).
So when on the Wintersports, I have to be gentle and gradually progressive on control inputs, a bit like my series Land Rover which is on M/T crossplies, when with the PS4 I never have to think about it, even when it's cold and wet! So I'm often thinking should buy and use a shed to drive in winter instead.
Now you can argue maybe a different brand of winters or all-seasons "could" perform better. But I need to fork out another £500 to find that out. On the same logic I will state a more summer/dry focussed tyre say, RE070 will also be very bad in the cold and wet where swapping it seasonally would be more advantageous. So I'll very much say what may work for you or me won't work for everyone; Lincolnshire or the South West tends to be much more milder that the extremities of the Grampians or Pennines; My uncle and aunt are home-care support workers and trundle across mid wales in a 2WD Yeti wearing Hankook All-seasons without much issue; The OEM Pirelli P7s wouldn't even get it off my flat driveway in 5mm of snow! But that's not a performance car.
So, assuming you're part of the brigade and I missed it; Where have you specifically mentioned and warned that winter tyres may negatively and adversely affects the handling and stability of performance cars?
I will admit to being able to throw it about a lot more on lower speed bends and mini roundabouts etc. "can be fun" because it's easy to unstick the rear end now, but I'd rather it just grip to be honest, because one day doing that kind of thing will bite me on the **** typically when I least expect it. Much like not seeing the Prius or Mini (yes, I swear it's only Minis and hybrids that do this) on the slip road diving straight for lane 3 with impunity.
I've driven wintersports in the past. Not my favourite tyre, but performed perfectly well in the dry well into double figures! Sure as temperatures go up, then the performance will start to drop off, but at 8C you are well within the operating range of a winter tyre and squirming under braking/cornering shouldn't be a problem! In 20+ years on winter tyres I've certainly never experienced any worrying performance below 15C with most tyres working well up to 18C.
Well I have, can't really say any more than that. Apart from they are at their very worst when new: Taking about 3000miles to fully bed in. The first 1000miles from new is where they are at their worst, presumably it's the interlocking sipes not locking together well.
The first few days after swapping every year are the most poignant where I'm quickly reminded when I brake for my usual roundabout at the end of a 70mph carriageway. If I work on the perceived seven tenths of the car's limits it is now much lower. And yes it did catch me out a couple of times; My bad.
The big problem I have here is 9/10 of the time during winter the climate is wet or damp, above 5degrees C and below 10degrees C. I've used both PS3 and PS4 in these conditions and they work fine (other tyres:NO!); I've got a good dashcam clip of stopping on a penny in these conditions after being cut up by a taxi when using PS4 which I know I wouldn't have stopped in time on the WS4. To be fair the average shopping car or SUV would not stop in time, regardless of the tyre; But that's my minimum benchmark which I'd much prefer to exceed. So if I'm relegated to that level, I may as just buy/use a shed over winter instead.
Last edited by ALi-B; 14 January 2022 at 03:38 PM.
The vast majority of the UK now has a climate where it doesn't often get very cold for long periods. Winter tyres aren't worth the extra expense and inconvenience of changing onto for short cold snaps. Drive with a higher level of safety.
Different matter for Northern Europe or mountainous regions where it can be cold for weeks/months on end
The vast majority of the UK now has a climate where it doesn't often get very cold for long periods. Winter tyres aren't worth the extra expense and inconvenience of changing onto for short cold snaps. Drive with a higher level of safety.
Different matter for Northern Europe or mountainous regions where it can be cold for weeks/months on end
That's a classic misconception of the relative temperature efficiency of summer vs all-season or winter tyres. The thing that actually matters is the road temperature, and this stays consistently lower for far longer over the winter months than the air temperature, even in the UK.
I'd also say tyre temperature also has a influence; Tyres when driven above urban speeds, or kept in heated garage before a journey are going to work better: The RE010s on my NSX were lethal below 10degrees -even when dry! But drive for about 15-20mins the tyre heated up to around 20degree C and then they'd grip like limpets, even when it was near freezing outside (temperatures dropped suddenly on a long road trip and I didn't even notice that it was icy underfoot - no outside temp gauge! ).
But some other points...many modern tyres - even top brands don't have any useful tread below 4mm. Take this example which IIRC was on 5mm:
That's not really going to work very well in bad weather is it, it might not aquaplane, but that's about it!
Now let's go back in time....what tyre was fitted to performance cars and rated for 150mph on Jaguars? Yoofs of today I present to you the tread pattern of a part worn Pirelli Cinturato P5:
Its interesting to note the above looks more like an all-season 4x4 /van tyre. Also note that when you look at tyre treads on cars from 30years ago they all seem to follow a more agricultural tread pattern when compared to modern tyres on a equivalent spec vehicle. Not saying what's is better or worse, but I am saying modern mainstream tyres are definitely more summer/dry focussed with accommodation for standing water on very smooth clean roads...rather than DAMP (not wet) weather on coarser road surfaces covered on grit, dirt and crap that accumates from bad/poor drainage run-off slopes and lack of regular sweeping/repairs etc.
Also note the sipes are cut full depth, not in the top 3mm like the previous tyre (Think it was a GoodYear), the smaller sipes act like sponges; Google "Dunlop Aquajet" for a bit of light reading on how their tyres "dry" the road. We can then start appreciating why some modern cars can struggle in adverse weather when used on their original tyres (some worse than others).
Last edited by ALi-B; 19 January 2022 at 10:08 AM.
I have Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen-2 on my SUV and use the same as my "winter" set on my Beemer. I've driven in the Alps with these and they cope very well in the snow covered hilly roads. They also drive fine in the summer in the UK. Granted they're not performance cars and I tend to drive a bit more sedately these days so I'd never approach the limits of these tyres let alone performance summer tyres. As long as tyres are a decent brand and have the 3peaks mountain symbol on them, they will easily cope with any winters the UK throws at them and perform absolutely fine in the summer months. I think I will be ditching the summer tyres and running all seasons on the Beemer when the summer ones wear out.
04 January 2022, 08:24 AM
All-year-round tyres
summit to do with people buying part worn tyres that may of sat about for years.
getting back to this new 5 year tyre age rule if true ain't great if your car ain't used much year to year mileage wise, you'll be changing tyres that have plenty of tread on in theory just coz their of a certain year of manufacture.
). If I were to panic and over-correct (which the average driver tends to do) that would create a pendulum tank slapper.
