"Rural lane limit should be 40mph, say MPs"
17 June 2002, 10:29 AM
#2
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"Hundreds of road deaths each year are caused by drivers who are observing the speed limit but driving too fast for the conditions.
"
So much for speed kills then... [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
"
So much for speed kills then... [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
17 June 2002, 10:31 AM
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It's ridiculous and just goes to show that most drivers are so incapable at judging whether thet're driving safely for the conditions, and their and their car's abilities, so the government has to tell us the "correct" speed to drive on every 100 metre stretch of road. Speed limit changes will occur so often on some stretches of road it will be difficult to remember whether you're ina 30,40,50 or 60 section.
Why doesn't the government (local and national) spend this part of its budget on real safety - high quality tarmac to improve stopping and visibility in the wet, and cutting back undergrowth to improve visibility on winding roads. How many signposts have you seen obscured this "summer" by overgrown trees/undergrowth?
Why doesn't the government (local and national) spend this part of its budget on real safety - high quality tarmac to improve stopping and visibility in the wet, and cutting back undergrowth to improve visibility on winding roads. How many signposts have you seen obscured this "summer" by overgrown trees/undergrowth?
17 June 2002, 11:07 AM
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Around my part of 'rural' Surrey (Guildford area) they already seem to have a policy of this. In the last six months at least 100 miles that I know of has been changed from 60 to 40mph. There appears to be no reason for these changes, they are still boardered by fields / common land / woods, no new schools etc.
It's bloody outrageous
It's bloody outrageous
17 June 2002, 11:42 AM
#6
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Just forwarded this to a mate who had a car crash a couple of weeks ago - some person speeding down a rural lane.....
Wrote off his car (only a KA), lot of damage to him too - broken ribs, damaged leg, left his face all over the road
Food for thought....
Dan
Wrote off his car (only a KA), lot of damage to him too - broken ribs, damaged leg, left his face all over the road
Food for thought....
Dan
17 June 2002, 11:42 AM
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Hmmmm an even better plan, let's reduce the speed limit to zero and stop everyone going out in their cars and then there will be even less deaths. OK, so half the population won't be able to get to work or buy any food, but at least we will all be alive, hurrah 
Having been in an accident (me and a barrier
) I think as part of the driver learning, you should be put in an accident in a special car made for the occasion cos it makes you realise how easy they can happen and how it makes you realise you aren't invincible.
As I have always said though....it's misuse of speed for the driver's abillity and conditions of road and car that make for most accidents, not just max speed.
It's the drivers that need educating in handling and observation whilst in what is basically a deathtrap. Better educated drivers will make for a whole lot less accidents.....
[Edited by Hanslow - 6/17/2002 11:43:56 AM]
Having been in an accident (me and a barrier
) I think as part of the driver learning, you should be put in an accident in a special car made for the occasion cos it makes you realise how easy they can happen and how it makes you realise you aren't invincible.As I have always said though....it's misuse of speed for the driver's abillity and conditions of road and car that make for most accidents, not just max speed.
It's the drivers that need educating in handling and observation whilst in what is basically a deathtrap. Better educated drivers will make for a whole lot less accidents.....
[Edited by Hanslow - 6/17/2002 11:43:56 AM]
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17 June 2002, 12:03 PM
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Tests have shown that a 1mph reduction in average speed results in a 5 per cent reduction in crashes.
And the reply from ABD...
http://www.abd.org.uk/ht-kills.htm
17 June 2002, 12:07 PM
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Whist getting the link for the ADB above I found this...
http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_camera_signs.htm
Anyone fancy printing them out full size and sticking a few on the real signs?
EDIT for URL thingies...
[Edited by Nimbus - 6/17/2002 12:09:11 PM]
http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_camera_signs.htm
Anyone fancy printing them out full size and sticking a few on the real signs?
EDIT for URL thingies...
[Edited by Nimbus - 6/17/2002 12:09:11 PM]
17 June 2002, 12:38 PM
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You know what this is all about don't you. Its the Government's way to force more people onto public transport. If you think of it they gain in 2 respects:-
1. They don't actually have to upgrade the public transport system to encourage people to use it they just make any other alternative too expensive and too limiting.
2. As a result they also get a massive increase in the 'Driving Tax' from totally confused car owners who haven't got a clue what the speed limit is a any point during their journey.
That should leave a nice little wedge for Tony to use in his campaign to become European President.
Ian.
1. They don't actually have to upgrade the public transport system to encourage people to use it they just make any other alternative too expensive and too limiting.
2. As a result they also get a massive increase in the 'Driving Tax' from totally confused car owners who haven't got a clue what the speed limit is a any point during their journey.
That should leave a nice little wedge for Tony to use in his campaign to become European President.
Ian.
17 June 2002, 12:53 PM
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What a cracking idea, for so many reasons :
1) You can make in town congestion seem better cos you've had to wait twice as long to reach the town in the first place.
2) You can introduce tolls left right and centre on motorways cos people won't use other roads that have lower speed limits to avoid them.
3) You can make the train look a more attractive alternative as it might even get there quicker.
and best of all
4) Tony can bait the Tories by saying "You're so pants that we can do something like this and still be more popular than you"
1) You can make in town congestion seem better cos you've had to wait twice as long to reach the town in the first place.
2) You can introduce tolls left right and centre on motorways cos people won't use other roads that have lower speed limits to avoid them.
3) You can make the train look a more attractive alternative as it might even get there quicker.
and best of all
4) Tony can bait the Tories by saying "You're so pants that we can do something like this and still be more popular than you"
17 June 2002, 01:18 PM
#15
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The people that speed, will always speed......
Oh yes, while I mention it, will the person that goes through Hempstead every day in a silver old shape Impreza (titanium wheels, loud exhaust) please note it is a 30 limit outside my house you are always doing about 50 mph in.....
I rest my case.......
Oh yes, while I mention it, will the person that goes through Hempstead every day in a silver old shape Impreza (titanium wheels, loud exhaust) please note it is a 30 limit outside my house you are always doing about 50 mph in.....
I rest my case.......
17 June 2002, 01:31 PM
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Why do the government have to interfere in every part of your life? It's bad enough that the roads are falling to pieces in most places, yet all we seem to get are more roundabouts, traffic lights and speed bumps. Don't get me wrong, I am all for people observing speed limits in 30 zones, and I think all housing estates should be 20 MPH, but I feel it's time all politicians stopped fleecing the motorist and making the whole road network such a mess.
I live in a country village, and we are surrounded by National speed country lanes. Most people pass through at about 45 MPH, and then slow down to 30 or 25 when in the national speed areas, which to me is a joke.
There is no need to lower the speed limits at all, IMHO, but like someone else has said, we NEED the hedges cutting, and the signs made visble to people, rather than having cameras, humps, and the police hiding with their laser guns, which as we all know, will happen soon.
We have the safest roads in Europe, yet we are still being forced to go slower and slower. Peronally I think all the road safety has gone way too far, blanketing all the roads with speed bumps and other things is getting beyond a joke, and public transport is another joke, but hey the politicians don't use it but they want us to use it.
Soon the roads will be full of Jags, Mercs and other expensive cars, as joe public won't be able to afford to use the car, as it will be so expensive, eg insurance, tax, petrol, maintenance, road charges.
It's about time we woke up to what is really going on, and this is that the motorist is an easy picking for making money, we know and the people in power know it as well.
Enjoy the roads whilst you can, soon every road and every car will be monitored and you will be unable to go over 60 MPH anywhere.
I live in a country village, and we are surrounded by National speed country lanes. Most people pass through at about 45 MPH, and then slow down to 30 or 25 when in the national speed areas, which to me is a joke.
There is no need to lower the speed limits at all, IMHO, but like someone else has said, we NEED the hedges cutting, and the signs made visble to people, rather than having cameras, humps, and the police hiding with their laser guns, which as we all know, will happen soon.
We have the safest roads in Europe, yet we are still being forced to go slower and slower. Peronally I think all the road safety has gone way too far, blanketing all the roads with speed bumps and other things is getting beyond a joke, and public transport is another joke, but hey the politicians don't use it but they want us to use it.
Soon the roads will be full of Jags, Mercs and other expensive cars, as joe public won't be able to afford to use the car, as it will be so expensive, eg insurance, tax, petrol, maintenance, road charges.
It's about time we woke up to what is really going on, and this is that the motorist is an easy picking for making money, we know and the people in power know it as well.
Enjoy the roads whilst you can, soon every road and every car will be monitored and you will be unable to go over 60 MPH anywhere.
17 June 2002, 01:45 PM
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There is good and bad in this.
The limits on country lanes don't need t obe brought down IMHO. It is driver education that is really needed.
When you first pass your driving test, I think it should be mandatory for you to have to take the Advanced driving test, do Pass Plus and go on a skid training course.
All of these would have benefited me. I passed first time with no minor faults yet I wrote off my parents' car along a countryside road (not single track) three months later.
I was not speeding, the accident was not entirely my fault, yet I will admit to this:
I was driving too fast for the conditions there was black ice on the road. I had no experience in a skid and this was my downfall.
The other driver did not stop [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] fortunately my brother came out unharmed. I thank whoever was looking over us that day as he could quite easily have been killed.
Getting back on subject now - I re-emphasise my thought that driver education is a major key to reducing accidents.
Why is it not looked into further? Because it will be far more costly to do.
It is a lot easier to reduce the speed limit and collect revenue from frustrated drivers who will speed regardless.
On a completely different tangent - wouldn't it be great if track days were free!!!!!
The limits on country lanes don't need t obe brought down IMHO. It is driver education that is really needed.
When you first pass your driving test, I think it should be mandatory for you to have to take the Advanced driving test, do Pass Plus and go on a skid training course.
All of these would have benefited me. I passed first time with no minor faults yet I wrote off my parents' car along a countryside road (not single track) three months later.
I was not speeding, the accident was not entirely my fault, yet I will admit to this:
I was driving too fast for the conditions there was black ice on the road. I had no experience in a skid and this was my downfall.
The other driver did not stop [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] fortunately my brother came out unharmed. I thank whoever was looking over us that day as he could quite easily have been killed.
Getting back on subject now - I re-emphasise my thought that driver education is a major key to reducing accidents.
Why is it not looked into further? Because it will be far more costly to do.
It is a lot easier to reduce the speed limit and collect revenue from frustrated drivers who will speed regardless.
On a completely different tangent - wouldn't it be great if track days were free!!!!!
17 June 2002, 02:19 PM
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I think some of the points above are correct the plan is not to improve public transport as that is in fact impossable to make so good you would want to use a bus rather than drive but to make the car journey so slow and miserable that the bus is then by default a better journey.
In London they are paving over crtical roads and Junctions at speed which takes my breath away. it takes 20 years to get the A12 link road for the Blackwall tunnel but about 3 months to get Vauxhall Cross totally screwed. On a lot of my journeys which 1 year ago were dual carriage way with few hold ups during the day time they are now continous stop start crawling because it is now single lane with either masses of empty pavement or empty bus lane or even worse empty cycle lane next to me.
Now as a road/fuel/Vat/income/NI Tax payer i have payed the government to remove my right to drive on the roads i have payed for to do my job! Some body is taking the p*ss out of us. and mean while the reduction in Traffic flow at crucil junctions in London brings us nearer to Grid lock which the government claims they are trying to stop! If they stopped paving the roads over and relayed the tarmac they have dug up in the last 3 years we would move again.
Sorry for the rant!
Back to the point if we want to reduce deaths by speeding thats take it to the logical conclusion and stop cars going above any speed in which people would get hurt in a crash e.g. what about a limit of 0.5 MPH?
Maybe some body should walk in front of a moving car with a Red Flag!!!!!!!!
In London they are paving over crtical roads and Junctions at speed which takes my breath away. it takes 20 years to get the A12 link road for the Blackwall tunnel but about 3 months to get Vauxhall Cross totally screwed. On a lot of my journeys which 1 year ago were dual carriage way with few hold ups during the day time they are now continous stop start crawling because it is now single lane with either masses of empty pavement or empty bus lane or even worse empty cycle lane next to me.
Now as a road/fuel/Vat/income/NI Tax payer i have payed the government to remove my right to drive on the roads i have payed for to do my job! Some body is taking the p*ss out of us. and mean while the reduction in Traffic flow at crucil junctions in London brings us nearer to Grid lock which the government claims they are trying to stop! If they stopped paving the roads over and relayed the tarmac they have dug up in the last 3 years we would move again.
Sorry for the rant!
Back to the point if we want to reduce deaths by speeding thats take it to the logical conclusion and stop cars going above any speed in which people would get hurt in a crash e.g. what about a limit of 0.5 MPH?
Maybe some body should walk in front of a moving car with a Red Flag!!!!!!!!
17 June 2002, 03:45 PM
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There is no evidence that reducing speeds reduces accidents. It follows that slower speeds will result in less damage, although a head-on between two cars at 40mph will still kill a lot of car occupants. It does not follow that driving slowly reduces the likelihood of an accident because such schemes take no account of the way that the human brain works. The more boring and repetetive the task, the more likely our attention is to wander. Driving quickly is an effective way of maintaining concentration. The fastest roads in Britain don't have the lowest accident figures by chance.
There is also no evidence that an increase in the speed limit from 70 to 80 will see a corresponding increase in actual speeds (e.g. from 85 to 95). Evidence from a number of countries suggests that on average, traffic flows at the speed that most drivers think is reasonable. Increasing the speed limit to 80 on motorways will probably only increase the average actual speed by a couple of mph. What will happen is a reduction in the "driving tax" currently collected from the motorist.
An effective way to reduce road deaths would be to introduce a "jay-walking" law (like in the USA or Germany), making it illegal for people to walk out in front of 1.5+ tonnes of metal moving at 30+mph and expecting to get right of way regardless. It's a little-known fact that the total number of "drink driving" deaths includes drunk pedestrians run over by sober drivers.
As pointed out, plenty of info on the ABD website.
There is also no evidence that an increase in the speed limit from 70 to 80 will see a corresponding increase in actual speeds (e.g. from 85 to 95). Evidence from a number of countries suggests that on average, traffic flows at the speed that most drivers think is reasonable. Increasing the speed limit to 80 on motorways will probably only increase the average actual speed by a couple of mph. What will happen is a reduction in the "driving tax" currently collected from the motorist.
An effective way to reduce road deaths would be to introduce a "jay-walking" law (like in the USA or Germany), making it illegal for people to walk out in front of 1.5+ tonnes of metal moving at 30+mph and expecting to get right of way regardless. It's a little-known fact that the total number of "drink driving" deaths includes drunk pedestrians run over by sober drivers.
As pointed out, plenty of info on the ABD website.
17 June 2002, 04:03 PM
#21
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If speed limits were like they used to be - almost without exception 60 in rural areas, 30 in urban areas, people might be willing to slow down in the urban areas (towns/villages). Especially through villages, where traffic-calming measures could be used more effectively (speeding through villages is a problem). People would be more likely to respect these sensible limits on account of being able to drive at 60 out of towns/villages. The way it's going, you'll just end up with a yet-worse scenario of the 45-everywhere brigade trundling around totally oblivious.
17 June 2002, 09:00 PM
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We all need to stop whinging. We have contributed to all of this. When was the last time you went to your MP and said 'You represent my interests, I elected you, you have a duty to put my voice forward in Parliament and I don't like what is happening.' When did any of you write to your MP and say that speed cameras are unjust and that revenue should go to charities specialising in educating drivers? What about suggesting that instead of 3 points and a £60 fine, you could elect to pay £100, attend a course, sit an exam and if you pass, the points are deleted. Anyone suggested any way of improving our lot?
Instead of writing all our problems on here, why not send in a 14,000 strong body of opinion on behalf of the members of scoobynet and audi-net and BMW drivers association and so on. Maybe I'm naive. Maybe it's been done and doesn't work. Maybe we have already done what I've suggested, but I'll tell you this - all the speed cameras in my area have yellow backs now. What does that tell you?
If you don't agree with me, fine. That's your choice, but think about it before you flame me.
Maz.
Instead of writing all our problems on here, why not send in a 14,000 strong body of opinion on behalf of the members of scoobynet and audi-net and BMW drivers association and so on. Maybe I'm naive. Maybe it's been done and doesn't work. Maybe we have already done what I've suggested, but I'll tell you this - all the speed cameras in my area have yellow backs now. What does that tell you?
If you don't agree with me, fine. That's your choice, but think about it before you flame me.
Maz.
18 June 2002, 06:33 PM
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Maz,
I did write to my MP and I got a very polite and well written "f u c k o f f!!!"
Whilst also discussing it on this very board, I got flamed and called a boring/moaning ****. You can't win - people will moan and do nothing about it, those who do something about it will have no support from the people who are only willing to moan about it.... (and that's why the poxy Government are getting away with it)
Matt
[Edited by mutant_matt - 6/18/2002 6:34:16 PM]
I did write to my MP and I got a very polite and well written "f u c k o f f!!!"
Whilst also discussing it on this very board, I got flamed and called a boring/moaning ****. You can't win - people will moan and do nothing about it, those who do something about it will have no support from the people who are only willing to moan about it....
(and that's why the poxy Government are getting away with it)Matt
[Edited by mutant_matt - 6/18/2002 6:34:16 PM]
18 June 2002, 11:44 PM
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Speed doesn't kill. People kill. They fall asleep, write text messages, don't concentrate, can't keep an eye out for bikes...
The real villan is the woeful standard of driver education in this country.
Second in line to this is the police taking the soft option and targeting speeding rather than bad driving. Last Saturday, in the space of five minutes I saw a bus, a young lad and a woman in a Puma drive through a red light over a Pelican crossing in Wimbledon. Where are the cameras on crossings?? There's plenty going spare on the A3 and M25.
Money needs to be spent on training and meaningful enforcement.
For goodness sake please we need a NATIONAL campaign to cut down on speed bumps. They're unnecessary, accelerate part failure, slow down emergency vehicles, and have been proven to increase pollution. I can cope with having to keep to the speed limits, if I must but I can't cope with being reduced to a crawling pace every 50 yards.
The real villan is the woeful standard of driver education in this country.
Second in line to this is the police taking the soft option and targeting speeding rather than bad driving. Last Saturday, in the space of five minutes I saw a bus, a young lad and a woman in a Puma drive through a red light over a Pelican crossing in Wimbledon. Where are the cameras on crossings?? There's plenty going spare on the A3 and M25.
Money needs to be spent on training and meaningful enforcement.
For goodness sake please we need a NATIONAL campaign to cut down on speed bumps. They're unnecessary, accelerate part failure, slow down emergency vehicles, and have been proven to increase pollution. I can cope with having to keep to the speed limits, if I must but I can't cope with being reduced to a crawling pace every 50 yards.
