So ... flat earthers - ScoobyNet.com - Subaru Enthusiast Forum



Non Scooby Related Anything Non-Scooby related

So ... flat earthers

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10 May 2018, 05:59 PM   #1  
matty01
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,439
Question So ... flat earthers

So ... flat earthers, whats the story there . and how is it possible to be that dim and still seemingly 'function' in society
matty01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 May 2018, 08:49 PM   #2  
hodgy0_2
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K
Posts: 15,476
Default

it works because every bit on nonsense has an element of truth in it - just enough to ensnare (uncritical thinkers) people

even flat earth

the page I previously linked to in the RT thread suggests the following

"Philosophy can explain why. Consider one, standard, flat earth line: “Can you prove the world is round?” Maybe you point to the (often artificially assembled) photos of Earth from space. Or possibly you rely on the testimony of astronauts. The flat earther knocks it all back. The standard of proof is higher, they say. You haven’t been to space. You haven’t seen the round earth.

Perhaps you then start to appeal to science. But unless you’re unusual, you probably don’t know all of the details of the scientific proofs – is it something to do with ships and horizons? Or eclipses? And even if you know the details, unless you’ve indulged existing flat earth literature you are unlikely – right here, right now – to be able to cogently, concisely and comprehensively respond to the lengthy rebuttals flat earthers will give to each and every scientific proof."


so the point is I doubt the average snetter could rebut the arguments of a well trained flat earther and "prove" the earth is round (and that is the same for 911, Climate Change, Chemtrails etc etc)

also I have previously posted on the science deniers use of the word "proof" - a total misunderstanding of science - science does not seek to "prove" anything

anyway you might say "but we have pictures from space"

they will say -"these are photo-shopped by NASA" - and they will link to a NASA page

and yes NASA do build images of the earth using composite imaging (Photoshop to flat earthers)


"scientists and visualizers stitched together months of observations of the land surface, oceans, sea ice, and clouds into a seamless, true-color mosaic of every square kilometer (.386 square mile) of our planet. These images are freely available to educators, scientists, museums, and the public."

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fe...lobe-east.html




so in the law of internet debating 1 nil to the flat-earthers

unless you "know" how to rebut this nonsense - much like "the climate has changed before" "CO2 is a trace gas", "the twin tower fell straight down" - all true statements btw, but in the context of what the deniers are arguing (in the same way that NASA do "Photoshop" images of the earth) irrelevant to the ACTUAL point they are making

you will lose a debate to a well briefed denier - and as I have posted before

"if you argue correctly you're never wrong" - (a great line from the film "thank you for smoking")

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 10 May 2018 at 09:13 PM.
hodgy0_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 07:32 AM   #3  
matt-c
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 967
Default

What about that thing where you keep going in one direction and end up where you started?
matt-c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 07:58 AM   #4  
markjmd
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,703
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt-c View Post
What about that thing where you keep going in one direction and end up where you started?
Good question. The suspension of disbelief involved (in trying to convince oneself that despite this patently proving the Earth is spherical, it's still somehow flat) would be astonishing.
markjmd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 08:21 AM   #5  
hodgy0_2
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K
Posts: 15,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt-c View Post
What about that thing where you keep going in one direction and end up where you started?
in a flat earth you just go round the outside




they then launch into rebuttals based on analysing aircraft flight plans and "proving" by looking at departure and arrival times etc that a round earth is impossible

just google "flat earth flight times"

they also point to the fact that pilot fly straight and level at all times, even from the UK to Australia - and NEVER have to take into account the fact that the earth is curved (which is absolutely true btw, but they miss the secret ingredient)

ergo the earth is flat!!!!!

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 11 May 2018 at 08:23 AM.
hodgy0_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 08:56 AM   #6  
matt-c
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 967
Default

Some people just like to argue i think, and take pleasure from adopting ridiculous positions and seeing if they can successfully argue it.

It's a shame they don't use their brain power for something more useful.
matt-c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 08:58 AM   #7  
markjmd
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,703
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
in a flat earth you just go round the outside




they then launch into rebuttals based on analysing aircraft flight plans and "proving" by looking at departure and arrival times etc that a round earth is impossible

just google "flat earth flight times"

they also point to the fact that pilot fly straight and level at all times, even from the UK to Australia - and NEVER have to take into account the fact that the earth is curved (which is absolutely true btw, but they miss the secret ingredient)

ergo the earth is flat!!!!!
This is all well and good, but it's easily countered by advising sceptics of a spherical Earth to simply take regular compass readings and make regular observations of the position of the Sun on their round-the-world journey. Or do flat-earthers not believe in such things?
markjmd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 09:30 AM   #8  
Paben
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Taken to the hills
Posts: 2,742
Default

Apparently New Scientist is funding an expedition to search for the edge of the flat earth, take a few photos and bring back some samples. It seems that the mysterious vanishings usually attributed to the Bermuda triangle were probably caused by people going too far and falling off. The proposal is to erect a high perimeter fence to prevent further losses.
Paben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 09:52 AM   #9  
hodgy0_2
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K
Posts: 15,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by markjmd View Post
This is all well and good, but it's easily countered by advising sceptics of a spherical Earth to simply take regular compass readings and make regular observations of the position of the Sun on their round-the-world journey. Or do flat-earthers not believe in such things?
who knows - the ancient Greeks worked out the circumference of the earth to within 3% using the position of shadows relative to vertical poles placed in the sand (and other "shadow" based experiments)

but if you engage them on any particular point - like you say above, they will have a ready rebuttals at hand, it may be nonsense but they will never concede a point, and they can get some "hits" as I point out with the "NASA Photoshop's images of the earth"

I suppose the point is that if "evidence" was enough to convince them they would not believe what they do

but they also misrepresent what science is all about - that's why they insist on "proof"

it is a powerful tool - they simply say, "can you prove it" - and the answer is "not really no, certainly not to they level of proof they require"

but science is not about proving anything - it is about understanding our world based on Scientific theories which are supported by hypotheses and evidence/data

these theories (Evolution, Heliocentricity, Relativity, Gravity) then lead to technical advances that work, like GPS and DNA/Gene therapy

Moreover scientific theories such as Gravitational Theory have undergone revision, and are still being revised - nothing is sacred in Science

so although classic Newtonian gravitational theory is enough to get planes of the ground and get us to the moon and back etc (and incidentally the secret ingredient that explains why Pilots do not have to account for the curvature of the earth) it does not explain Gravity in its entirety

Darwinian Evolutionary theory has been revised, it was not that Darwin was wrong, but simply that we have better data and a better understanding of how evolution works

But it is common to all cranks, flat earthers and creationist etc to point to past errors and say "see science gets it wrong all the time"

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 11 May 2018 at 09:56 AM.
hodgy0_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 10:14 AM   #10  
JTaylor
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,685
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
who knows - the ancient Greeks worked out the circumference of the earth to within 3% using the position of shadows relative to vertical poles placed in the sand (and other "shadow" based experiments)

but if you engage them on any particular point - like you say above, they will have a ready rebuttals at hand, it may be nonsense but they will never concede a point, and they can get some "hits" as I point out with the "NASA Photoshop's images of the earth"

I suppose the point is that if "evidence" was enough to convince them they would not believe what they do

but they also misrepresent what science is all about - that's why they insist on "proof"

it is a powerful tool - they simply say, "can you prove it" - and the answer is "not really no, certainly not to they level of proof they require"

but science is not about proving anything - it is about understanding our world based on Scientific theories which are supported by hypotheses and evidence/data

these theories (Evolution, Heliocentricity, Relativity, Gravity) then lead to technical advances that work, like GPS and DNA/Gene therapy

Moreover scientific theories such as Gravitational Theory have undergone revision, and are still being revised - nothing is sacred in Science

so although classic Newtonian gravitational theory is enough to get planes of the ground and get us to the moon and back etc (and incidentally the secret ingredient that explains why Pilots do not have to account for the curvature of the earth) it does not explain Gravity in its entirety

Darwinian Evolutionary theory has been revised, it was not that Darwin was wrong, but simply that we have better data and a better understanding of how evolution works

But it is common to all cranks, flat earthers and creationist etc to point to past errors and say "see science gets it wrong all the time"
You ought to distinguish between young earth creationists and evolutionary creationists.
JTaylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 12:02 PM   #11  
hodgy0_2
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K
Posts: 15,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTaylor View Post
You ought to distinguish between young earth creationists and evolutionary creationists.
yes, sure

and I think most sensible evolutionist do to a certain extent - Evolution says little or nothing about the origins of life/universe

In fact I was watching a great Carl Sagan interview only yesterday where the interviewer asks him the same point

i.e. whether acceptance of evolution precludes a belief in creator, and naturally he say not - just that evidence is required
hodgy0_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 04:15 PM   #12  
JTaylor
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,685
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
yes, sure

and I think most sensible evolutionist do to a certain extent - Evolution says little or nothing about the origins of life/universe

In fact I was watching a great Carl Sagan interview only yesterday where the interviewer asks him the same point

i.e. whether acceptance of evolution precludes a belief in creator, and naturally he say not - just that evidence is required
You may find this site interesting, Hodgy.

https://biologos.org
JTaylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 04:30 PM   #13  
Jonnys3
Scooby Regular
 
Jonnys3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,185
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post

just google "flat earth flight times"
Well stupid me, I shouldn't have but I did ... and ended up at this thread:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/...?topic=61991.0

Jonnys3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 07:35 PM   #14  
ALi-B
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
ALi-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The hell where youth and laughter go
Posts: 36,422
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnys3 View Post
Well stupid me, I shouldn't have but I did ... and ended up at this thread:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/...?topic=61991.0


Honestly, I don't care what shape the planet is, let alone waffle on and on about it or the people who believe in it: Let them be wrong (or right ), there's far more important things in life to deal with: Does it even matter if the earth were flat?

By the way...the Egyptian gods were aliens and the pyramids were the landing docks for the spaceships
ALi-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 09:18 PM   #15  
hodgy0_2
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K
Posts: 15,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTaylor View Post
You may find this site interesting, Hodgy.

https://biologos.org
I will have a look
hodgy0_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2018, 09:31 PM   #16  
hodgy0_2
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K
Posts: 15,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnys3 View Post
Well stupid me, I shouldn't have but I did ... and ended up at this thread:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/...?topic=61991.0

what is fascinating (to me anyway) that listed at the bottom of this thread are self identifying "flat earthers"




of course their attempt at making the association is supposed to be ironic - but the real irony is they are pushing the same denialism as real flat earthers

yes the flat earthers thread highlighted is simply a proxy for denying climate change - but hilariously they use the same modus operandi as the flat earthers

namely that NASA is playing a massive hoax and faking the temperature data just like NASA faked the moon landings and fake the spherical globe

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/






Last edited by hodgy0_2; 11 May 2018 at 09:33 PM.
hodgy0_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 May 2018, 04:32 PM   #17  
The Trooper 1815
18 June 1815 - Waterloo
iTrader: (31)
 
The Trooper 1815's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: To the valley men!
Posts: 18,641
Default

Are flat nerds saying all planets are flat?
The Trooper 1815 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 May 2018, 04:58 PM   #18  
matty01
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,439
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt-c View Post
Some people just like to argue i think, and take pleasure from adopting ridiculous positions and seeing if they can successfully argue it.

It's a shame they don't use their brain power for something more useful.
Yes I think it's partly that and they just watch a few videos on it and get brainwashed just like a cult ,like Scientology ,quite intelligent people but they have a massive spot in their awarenesses , they're hypnotised....it's not uncommon in society , it just stands out like a sore thumb in cults and this sort of quackery ... look around ,it's everywhere...

flat earth #facepalm
matty01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 May 2018, 10:00 PM   #19  
legb4rsk
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: If you're not braking or accelerating you're wasting time.
Posts: 2,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trooper 1815 View Post
Are flat nerds saying all planets are flat?

And amazingly all the objects in the universe are facing us flat-face on!!! I therefore conclude I am the center of the universe.Always knew it was true.

I'm with them
legb4rsk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 May 2018, 10:10 PM   #20  
hodgy0_2
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K
Posts: 15,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trooper 1815 View Post
Are flat nerds saying all planets are flat?
well the Solar System is essentially flat


but you have to cut flat earthers a little slack , I speak with Brexidiots who tell me it's all going swimmingly, yet we have the cabinet debating two customs partnerships that the EU have already said are delusional nonsense - now that is denial

flat earthers seems sane by comparison

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 16 May 2018 at 10:12 PM.
hodgy0_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 May 2018, 09:25 AM   #21  
BMWhere?
Scooby Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Posts: 1,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
I speak with Brexidiots
Apparently you're supposed to call them Gammon now
BMWhere? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 May 2018, 10:10 AM   #22  
Mr Fuji
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 133
Default

What I have never understood about the flat earthers is why would people say it's a sphere if it's not?

I can understand (but not agree) with 9/11, Kennedy assassination, moon landings, as you can see how some people may have had something to gain from those events being staged.

But a spherical Earth? If the Earth had been declared a sphere in recent times, you could argue it's in NASA's interests, or the GPS companies etc, but the Greeks worked it out! It has been accepted as spherical for millennia.

I guess some people just like to be different......
Mr Fuji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 May 2018, 10:35 AM   #23  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 21,628
Default

i have concrete and irrefutable scientific evidence the earth is not flat,


Tidgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 May 2018, 10:38 AM   #24  
Tidgy
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 21,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fuji View Post
What I have never understood about the flat earthers is why would people say it's a sphere if it's not?

I can understand (but not agree) with 9/11, Kennedy assassination, moon landings, as you can see how some people may have had something to gain from those events being staged.

But a spherical Earth? If the Earth had been declared a sphere in recent times, you could argue it's in NASA's interests, or the GPS companies etc, but the Greeks worked it out! It has been accepted as spherical for millennia.

I guess some people just like to be different......
alot of it is party stupidity and a massive, huge, planet sized dollop of paranoia about conspiracies.

most are just a bunch of thickos who don't think beyond what they are told by the flat earth 'expert's', which i use in the loosest of terms
Tidgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 May 2018, 03:01 PM   #25  
stilover
Scooby Regular
 
stilover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Here, There, Everywhere
Posts: 10,607
Default

It's funny all this flat earth stuff. I've watched lots of videos on YouTube and some of the stuff does make you think. After all for centuries man believed the earth was flat.


There was an American expedition to the South pole where Admril Richard E Bryd gave an interview saying that there was land beyond the South pole, which backs up theories that the Earth has a Ice wall around it. So being flat not round. See link




There is also a Buddist map going back 1000 years that shows the Earth flat and things beyond the Ice wall. Which maybe is backed up by Admril Byrd's interview.


And as mentioned above. If you do look at flight paths, they do take some strange flight paths to get to some destinations, yet while looking at the flight path on the flat earth map, make perfect sense, as they are straight lines.


And then we have the argument about running water. Water does always run flat, so just how does water curve around the earth?


And then we have the argument that with a telescope you can see points of land that should not be visible with the curvature of the earth.


It would be fascinating if it was indeed proven the earth was flat. Why they would hide the facts from us I wouldn't know? Maybe to stop us going beyond the South pole? Who knows. Momentum is growing with the flat earth theory, and like I say I've seen some of the theories, and it does make you think.


We are told things from birth and we don't question them. maybe we should. Maybe we are told them as they are true. maybe we are told them to hide the truth from us?


But if true or not, but it always make me laugh when someone says all flat earther's are nutters without any proof, yet believe in a god that has no proof of existing either. We get told that from birth too.


So if one set of believers are a set of nutters, the other set must be too.
stilover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 May 2018, 05:38 PM   #26  
legb4rsk
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: If you're not braking or accelerating you're wasting time.
Posts: 2,650
Default

How do man-made satellites (geo-stationary or otherwise) stay in orbit?
legb4rsk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 May 2018, 06:16 PM   #27  
markjmd
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,703
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stilover View Post
We are told things from birth and we don't question them. maybe we should. Maybe we are told them as they are true. maybe we are told them to hide the truth from us?
I'm going to bet that your parents also told you not to eat poop up off the floor when you were little, due to it being filthy and likely to make you ill. Why is it you haven't chosen to challenge that particular accepted idea then, but are so focused on this whole flat-earth / round-earth deal instead? Or who knows, maybe that's actually another secret part of the flat-earther initiation that you've been keeping from us poor deluded roundies. Just between us then, were my parents lieing to me all along?
markjmd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 May 2018, 06:47 PM   #28  
Paben
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Taken to the hills
Posts: 2,742
Default

The daftest people are not the flat earthers but those who think they are serious believers. Perhaps some are but most are just taking the p1ss!
Paben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 May 2018, 06:52 PM   #29  
dpb
Scooby Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: riding the crest of a wave ...
Posts: 45,242
Default

if we all ingested a little more natural poison would we now be so dependant on drugs for our ' allergies'
dpb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM   #30  
stilover
Scooby Regular
 
stilover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Here, There, Everywhere
Posts: 10,607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by markjmd View Post
I'm going to bet that your parents also told you not to eat poop up off the floor when you were little, due to it being filthy and likely to make you ill. Why is it you haven't chosen to challenge that particular accepted idea then, but are so focused on this whole flat-earth / round-earth deal instead? Or who knows, maybe that's actually another secret part of the flat-earther initiation that you've been keeping from us poor deluded roundies. Just between us then, were my parents lieing to me all along?

If you read my post properly, you will see I have not said the earth is flat. There is no absolute evidence to say it is. But what I said was that if you look at some of the videos and interviews, it does make you think. Thinking is good. Questioning stuff it good. Just being a complete sheep and believing everything you are told is not good.


We are told many things from birth, some of which are true, and some utter rubbish. Just ask Santa or the Tooth fairy.


Or better still, for absolute truth, why don't you ask God? After all, he is our creator, so must know for sure? Nip to Church and ask him.


Your post suggests that everything we are told by governments must be true, and anyone who doesn't believe every word we are told, is a conspiracy theorist or a nutter.


Maybe you should see some of the evidence given by flat Earthers. Or just watch the link I put up. Why would an Admiral Bryd say there is land beyond the South Pole if there wasn't? maybe he's just a nutter?


Like I say, it make you think. It make you question what you have been told from birth.

Last edited by stilover; Yesterday at 10:12 AM.
stilover is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Us "flat-earthers" are on a roll... 22BUK Non Scooby Related 10 13 February 2010 02:39 PM
Oil Changes Subaru Flat 4 vs Porsche Flat 6 SPEN555 Drivetrain 6 12 February 2005 05:34 PM
I'm rely sorry flat flat 444444444444444444 Little Frank The Muppet Room 10 02 January 2005 12:36 AM
Shopping Tip: Run-Flat or Not? Shopping Tip: Run-Flat or Not? SRX Non Scooby Related 2 14 May 2004 11:17 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:04 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: