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I know there are a few on here that are dog lovers, so asking for advice really.
We have three dogs, a 14 yo Jack Russell x pointer called Snoopy (dog), an 11 yo Jack Russell called Rags (dog) and an 8 yo golden retriever called Molly (bitch)
Unfortunately, the eldest dog Snoopy has developed a mental issue. He has always been a friendly, chilled out and somewhat lazy dog. Always eager to go out for a lead walk, but happy to just sit in a chair and curl up.
Rags always used to follow him around, and liked to lay on top of snoopy on the chair, to which snoopy would moan briefly in a here we go again kind of way, but would always tolerate it.
Now, however, snoopy will not leave rags alone, he will constantly try and stalk rags, follow him every where, and stare at him. This gets rags back up (literally, hackles, the lot sometimes) and will start growling at rags. This will lead to them turning on each other. Then Molly will get involved.
She is a highly strung dog at the best of times, and doesn't like the upset of the two other dogs behaviour. If the two dogs aren't separated in time she will go for one of them to try and stop the situation, which just escalates things.
Snoopy will often start running flat out through the house, jumping at the sofa and running back out, and repeat this up to ten times. Feeding time will also see him jump around all over the place and start squeaking in anticipation. Both these behaviour characteristics are very out of place for his normal nature.
It has now come to the point that the dogs have to be separated most of the time, as snoopy is always on rags case, and there will be a dog fight. We have taken snoopy to the vets, I believe he has canine dementia, but the vet isn't convinced and thinks he may have a brain problem, but without spending a fortune on mri scan, blood tests etc, we won't know for sure. The vet doesn't recommend this as he is so old anyway, and said it wouldn't be wrong to put him to sleep. It has got to the point where it is very disruptive and stressful and I am seriously considering taking him to the vets one last time. It's a shame as he would be fine on his own, although he is losing sight and is unresponsive to commands any more so he hearing is either shot or he has lost his marbles.
BTW, this relates to another thread, a Visla is a sort of Hungarian pointer.
Thats pretty sad, but you have to do the right thing for the other dogs too, and its not fair on the other dog Rags, because he's no spring chicken any more.
I agree with the vets comments, and especially as he's not recommending any form of treatment either by the sounds of things.
I used to have a border collie, he was 15, but always thought he was 5 or something.
He started having heart problems(vet diagnosis), for example, would decide to just sprint as fast as he possible could say when out for walks (never on a lead by the way) - would always look at you for "permission" first beforehand.
this lead to him randomly collapsing, still concious, but worried looking (as in WTF just happened there - I'm 5!)
Eventually we decided to put him down as he collapsed more often
Saddest ******* thing ever, I took him, stayed with him when put down etc.
But ultimately I like to also think it was the kindest thing to do for him.
Last edited by urban; 10 November 2016 at 10:53 AM.
That's the thing, to look at none of the dogs appear the age they are. We changed vets around five years ago, had to take snoopy and they thought he was about two. He was nine or ten at the time. Even now he still looks five or six according to the vet, and there is nothing really physically wrong, just mentally.
Rags much the same, doesn't look or act his years at all.
The vet has put him on a course of zylkene and tramadol, to try and sedate him and calm him down, but they don't really do anything.
Last edited by WRXrowdy; 10 November 2016 at 10:13 AM.
Could anyone take on Snoopy, re home locally sort of thing?
maybe after a time apart they may get on again, if not then Snoopy can carry on in peace for a while yet.
Can't really help much here, as if the diagnosis is what you think it is then there is probably little that can be done, but if you did want to try and seek more vet treatment/diagnosis what I will say is if you don't have pet insurance to cover costs so footing all the diagnosis bills out of your pocket, and can travel overseas...i.e France or Spain. Vets there can be lots lots lots....did I say lots? cheaper!!
Obviously not the ones by the ferry ports, they will rip you off as much as the British ones can. But the one we use in Spain is pennies, we often have arguments about her charging too little LOL.
The alternative is to re-home one of the dogs. Never easy, but you never know.
Pet can be put to sleep when a pet's in a lot of incurable pain, or when it's having problems that can't be cured, getting progressively worse day by day, and causing misery for it and the ones around it. Latter is your dog's case.
Setting free by inducing eternal sleep isn't allowed for dementia or other incurable disease effected humans, but it is; for animals. You say his old age won't allow MRI, more tests and treatments, anyway. In such case, I'd set it free. As Urban says, perhaps the kindest thing to do. It will be very, very sad to let it go, but what's the point it having the life it has, now, and prolonging his (and others') misery. It must be very sad to see your dog as it is, and its condition will only worsen progressively. I'd set him free with a very heavy heart.
You can give it a bit more time, if you can manage, so that you don't regret doing it too early and live with guilt.
I've never had to do it to any of my animals. My last cat voluntarily got adopted by my neighbour, who handled its last moments. I now have two cats. I will be distraught when I take my old and poorly cats to the vet one day, for the purpose. But I will have to, and must do it; to save them from a miserable, deteriorating existence. I dread that day, but I know that I will have to face up to it- one day.
Last edited by Turbohot; 10 November 2016 at 10:52 AM.
That would be the ideal situation, rehoming, but who would want a 14 year old dog with a mental issue. Can't rehome Molly, she has separation anxiety if my wife goes away, and that wouldn't solve the issue with snoopy and rags. Can't rehome rags because that might lead snoopy so behaviour to transfer towards Molly, and she would likely kill him (they have always had to be fed away from Molly because she would attack them if they went near her while she ate)
Pet insurance, we stopped paying that for snoopy last year, because of his age. It costs us nearly a grand a year to insure the other two, it is nearly that alone just for snoopy.
I've had quite a few dogs in my lifetime and you always know from the moment you get together with them that there will come a time to part, and most times it will be a painful decision that will leave a lasting memory and hurt like hell.
Most times you can usually make a clear decision when pain or disability makes a dog'e life untenable, but this situation is slightly different.
It's easy to focus on the dog's immediate problem and 'manage' it in a way that makes the situation bearable and perhaps miss the impact it may be having on the rest of the family, including your other two dogs.
Maybe if you look at the trauma the other two dogs are experiencing, the possible financial impact an attempted cure will have, and what effects this is having on your (human) family a more pragmatic approach will make the decision easier, and perhaps more obvious. Sentiment, although entirely understandable, is not your friend in this situation.
One thing I will say is that in my opinion it would be wrong to try and rehome this animal. You can't tell what future developments with this problem are in store for the prospective keeper, and it may well have a debilitating effect on the dog that makes matters worse.
Yes I'm aware of what happens if he has dementia, the thing that confuses the vet is in cases of dementia a dog will generally go from being fairly active to not very active, whereas the opposite is the case with snoopy. If he was less active and not interested in the other dog there wouldn't be a problem.
I can empathise with this and it is tragic when your best pal reaches the end of their days. We have always had dogs and at one time had three, two Cavaliers and a Golden. They adored each other and younger Cavalier would climb on top of the Golden to peer over edge of basket to watch TV
But Cavalier senior gradually deteriorated and regular vet visits kept her going but the time came.........
I had previously taken other Cavaliers we had, handed them to the vet nurse, for their last visit. To see those gorgeous eyes look back at you for the last time was devastating and I couldn't even drive back home for an hour. But I will give you one very useful tip. If you make the hard choice then ask the vet to come into your house and do the necessary. Go out of the room if you want. Your other two dogs will sense what has happened, may give their companion the once over, and will be quieter than usual for a day or so. But if you took the dog away to the vets the other dogs would probably get very stressed not knowing where their friend had gone and this could last for several days.
But you have to make brave decisions and it's not easy. All the very best. David
Agree with what David says above, but for other reasons - ask the vet to come to your house, so that the dog can make the final journey in its own home, surrounded by its family. We did this 2 years ago - our boy was 15 years old, and perfectly fine one minute, had his afternoon snooze and woke up totally different (couldn't walk properly, clearly in a lot of discomfort) vet believed that he had a stroke in his sleep, and there was nothing that could be done. Horrific decision to have to make, but as the owner that is the responsibility that we have, for the love that we get from them. Sorry to read your story, but agree that you need to do what is best for all.
It comes down to quality of life and whether the dog is suffering or indeed it is making the other dogs suffer.
Rehoming should only be an option if was to an immediate family member who the dog knows and where you could still see him so it wouldn't turn his life upside down.
But at 14 you have to ask is it only going to get worse for everyone and how long do you let it go on for?
The only people who can really help you decide on making the decision is your family and the vet taking everything into consideration. I suspect the vet will advise every dog owners worst fear.
14 is a fair old innings. I lost my Golden when she was 7 which was pretty rough. Smaller dogs usually live longer but larger ones often don't fare so well. I think the Irish Wolfhound, for example, has an expected life span of only 6 - 7 years. I have no idea why but do some research before getting a new pet. Perhaps the 57 variety dogs are tougher? David
Yes pedigree breeds are more susceptible to illness than x breeds, as there is usually some inter breeding that occur in the dogs lineage, kind of like pikeys, where they marry their cousins, have a shorter life expectancy than average folk.
It comes down to quality of life and whether the dog is suffering or indeed it is making the other dogs suffer.
Rehoming should only be an option if was to an immediate family member who the dog knows and where you could still see him so it wouldn't turn his life upside down.
My wife's nan has just taken in a re homed Jack Russell, she is the only remaining grandparent on either side. Wife's parents have three dogs, so that's out, her sister lives in a flat and can't have a dog, her brother has a new born child, my dad has terminal cancer and my nephew is scared of dogs, so we have no option of re homing with a family member, unfortunately.
Had my Dog Charlie die two years ago
The vet diagnosed a very treatable auto immune disease the dog got worse lost alot weight
Closely monitored by vet advised for him to be pts
No way couldn't believe what I was hearing
What's other option? Pump him full drugs see if he pulls through over next 24 hours
Worse thing if ever done he died that night and I wasn't there to say goodbye
I knew it was time I couldn't do it
People may say he's only a dog
But I got him when I moved to uk to be close to my older daughter
No friends family around the first few years were tough only for that dog I don't know what I'd done
It's a very personal choice you need to make in what's best for you both god bless
Had my Dog Charlie die two years ago
The vet diagnosed a very treatable auto immune disease the dog got worse lost alot weight
Closely monitored by vet advised for him to be pts
No way couldn't believe what I was hearing
What's other option? Pump him full drugs see if he pulls through over next 24 hours
Worse thing if ever done he died that night and I wasn't there to say goodbye
I knew it was time I couldn't do it People may say he's only a dog
But I got him when I moved to uk to be close to my older daughter
No friends family around the first few years were tough only for that dog I don't know what I'd done
It's a very personal choice you need to make in what's best for you both god bless
Dog is not only a dog, dog is your family member. Goes for all the pettable pets e.g. my cats are my family members. My daughter, when she was about 6-7, was distraught for days after her per hamster died. People are bereaved when their pet dies; just like they are, when a human family member dies. It's ignorant for people to say that it's only a dog. Silly people.
I would have thought if it was dementia, there would be other more obvious signs, just as in humans. Does your dog still respond to the same cues - picking up a lead, putting your coat on or carrying a stick mean that he is going for a walk etc. Does he still remember to sit and wait for you to open the door, does he remember which way the door opens, dogs aren't stupid - you will not see a dog scratch at the hinged side of a door to get out, they know how the door works. Do you find he sleeps more during the day and wanders around the house at night etc.
Could be a behavioural thing, may be worth trying separating him to see if he is any happier, or perhaps more nervous without the other dogs. The following around thing seems odd, almost like an anxiety thing.
Could you try to teach him something new, and see if he is capable of learing or retaing what he has been taught?
Sorry, just guesswork on my part.
Last edited by tarmac terror; 10 November 2016 at 08:40 PM.
He used to respond to commands, but now doesn't. Doesn't even respond to his name.
He has basically gone from being a relaxed, easy going, obedient dog, to one that just seems wired all the time. Settles down at night most of the time.
I'd say he's unable to do normal dog behaviours and is obviously distressed in some way.
Is there a way you can manage him? Does he still get comfort from you?
Here's my 11 year old GSD Max.
I really struggled with wether or not to put him to sleep when his CDRM got worse and he couldn't go for walks anymore. I assessed his quality of life with the 5 freedoms and decided he was still happy and alert and interested in life. I got his chair based on this decision and it's honestly the best thing I've ever done for him! I hope you can find a way to manage his behavioural change.
I'd say he's unable to do normal dog behaviours and is obviously distressed in some way.
Is there a way you can manage him? Does he still get comfort from you?
Here's my 11 year old GSD Max.
I really struggled with wether or not to put him to sleep when his CDRM got worse and he couldn't go for walks anymore. I assessed his quality of life with the 5 freedoms and decided he was still happy and alert and interested in life. I got his chair based on this decision and it's honestly the best thing I've ever done for him! I hope you can find a way to manage his behavioural change.
It`s very hard; I sympathise with you. Our Wheaten terrier has just turned 16, he is hard of hearing, ( selectively) quite blind, and his back legs are going. We are living in a caravan, and he frequently craps in here as he seems to be losing sensation in his rear. I swore that I would never allow him to live on if he was stuck in bed, but at the moment he appears relatively happy and pain free. We have been pondering when to do it, after he has crapped inside again ( often just after coming in ) but in my heart I knew that was for our convienience, so he remains. It`s very hard, but you have 2 other dogs to think about too.
10 November 2016, 09:27 AM
When to put a dog to sleep
