jonc

Would you have gotten out of the car to such and aggressive policeman? Are motorists obliged to step out of the car if asked to do so by the Police even if no reason is given for doing so?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37397391

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

1. What makes you think the person involved in that incident wasn't "given a reason" to get out of their vehicle?
2. Even if they weren't given one, and even if there's no obligation to get out (whether reason given or not), I struggle to understand what anyone thinks they'd achieve by refusing point-blank to do so.

peter zippy reid

iTrader: (25)

Was he not a banned or uninsured driver

jonc

Judging by the video, it didn't look like this officer give a reason before smashing up the guy's car. I for one wouldn't expect an officer to behave so aggressively. The guy wasn't even given the chance to explain why he didn't want to get out. It was a case of mistaken identity, he wasn't even given the chance to prove his identity. Given that we don't live in a police state, should people be subjected to such violence from the Police, just cause or not?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

How difficult would it have been for the guy to get out of his car and avoid the trouble? The officer had no idea that this was a case of mistaken identity and the driver's reluctance to get out just comfirmed his probable guilt. In many countries he would found himself looking down the muzzle of a pistol.

jonc

So are you saying it's the guys fault that the officer decided to smash up his car? Are we to expect this sort of reaction from our police force if we don't comply with an officer's demand? Shouldn't the officer at least confirm his identity first? He wasn't going any where since the officer had already removed his keys. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? You say in other countries he'd be looking down barrel of a gun, so what? We're not in one of those countries, are you saying it would be OK for an officer to shoot someone for not getting out of their car?

jaygsi

iTrader: (46)

To be fair we don't know the whole story, his cousin could of been driving the lad who was banned's car.

End of the day i think the police get little respect as it is, if an officer asks you to get out of the car just do it, unless you think he isn't an officer. If you don't and they suspect your a criminal then your making yourself look guilty, you might have the right to sit in your car and tell them to run and jump. But be prepared for the backlash.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

I am indeed saying it was the driver's fault for not complying with a reasonable request from a police officer. The fact that the guy filmed the response suggets he might have been trying to provoke an angry response. And if your 'innocent until proven guilty' approach were to be strictly applied then there could never be any arrests.

What would you suggest as an alternative? The officers falls to his knees and pleads for compliance? Or perhaps you think he should just shrug his shoulders and slump off defeated.

DoZZa

iTrader: (4)

He's lucky, had this occurred in America, you would have found a video on LiveLeak of the driver and no doubt his dog being shot in the head.

DoZZa

iTrader: (4)

I don't often agree with you, we all know that! But on this occasion I do!

Police have a job to do and behaving like an idiot and not complying is only going to result in some form of action by the Police. As displayed in that video.

All he had to do was get out of the car and allow the Police time to realise that he was not the person they were looking for!

The Police were in the right in my eyes, they were really left with no other option but to use force.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

the Policeman displayed far too little self control, he looked to be angry and aggressive, his actions were acceptable in what he actually did as he believed this person to be of interest, but the idiot in the car will claim he was scared and win any case.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

THIS!.SJ.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

And there's your problem highlighted right there. Neither of us or anyone else on this message-board know exactly what happened in the lead up to whoever it was deciding to start filming, or what was happening off camera. Justice by social media = guaranteed fail.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

Are you on drugs?What's colour got to do with this specific case?.SJ.

jonc

As soon as officer was told the driver only had a provisional licence over the radio the officer immediately became aggressive and started smashing the car. The driver wasn't even allowed to explain or given the chance to prove that he had a full license. The officer made a reasonable request to which the driver had every right to decline, but did the officer use reasonable force or even act reasonably? Should an officer be so easily provoked in to such an aggressive response simply by being recorded on a phone, to which was rightly used against this officer.

The police should uphold the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, we do not live in a police or some other totalitarian state! If the officer had reasonable grounds of the drivers guilt, shouldn't the driver be read his rights and arrested? Normally I am in complete support of the Police but the fact that there was no arrest just shows how much of an over reaction this officers conduct was and is now on restricted duty whilst his conduct is investigated. In my opinion the officer completely overly aggressive, even if the driver was a being just a d1ck.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

In all honesty i don't think no one knows what happened before hand but that's not really what peoples issue really is with this case,the issue is the policemans reaction to what we can hear and see the man in the car doing on the video clip and from what i can see in the video he is doing f@ck all to deserve his car being smashed up and the officer getting all hysterical and out of control.SJ.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

How do you know this? Were you there, have you spoken to other witnesses, or is this just what the person in the car has said on their Facebook page?

jonc

Well then you could also ask would the officer reacted in the same way if the driver was white. This is the Met doesn't have a great record in this area.

jonc

We could perhaps judge on the fact that there was no arrest and that the officer in question is now on restricted duty.

jonc

It took less than ten seconds before it needlessly escalated.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Do you know for a fact how long it was between the car being pulled over, and the time the video started filming? Do you know for a fact how long it was before that, between the police trying to pull the car over, and the driver complying with that request? Can you explain how or why there's any real point in discussing this incident at all, until those things are known?

Edit:
Just to add, when the full facts do come out, I expect this will turn out to be a case of "two idiots collide".

hodgy0_2

Agree,

The policemen over reacted

If those standards of policing are seen as acceptable, gawd help us

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

You might want to try reading your own link more carefully:

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Exactly how can someone locked in their car be arrested? Perhaps the officer should shout 'You're under arrest!' through the glass and hope he comes quietly? Tricky to know how to react if he chooses to stay put of course.

Had the driver got out of his car none of what followed would have happened. The fact the incident was being filmed right from the off is suspicious and a provocation in itself.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I don't think anyone can defend how aggressive the officer became, even if he had seen a gun I would of expected more self control.

That said, if the police stop you in a vehicle you are required by law to identify yourself and should you not be able to, I do not think it unreasonable for the police to question you further. I've been stopped a number of times, I am white, but I have a shaven head and have been driving reasonably high powered cars since I was 21, so although the police wouldn't be focused on my race or skin colour, they could very well have taken a dislike to my appearance and made unfair assumptions.

Never once have I seen aggression, I've met some arsey police, I was polite and firm in my reply.

legb4rsk

Filming in a public place is not illegal & you are well within your rights to record your encounter with the Police as are they.

It is neither suspicious or provocative!!!

I really can't believe there are so many on here defending the totally inappropriate behaviour of a public servant.The situation did not merit that response.There was no immediate or foreseen danger too the driver,passenger,Police Officer or any member of the public.

jonc

The BBC article is a few days old so you might want to check more recent news!

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

How could you possibly state that as fact? The wanted person could have just raped an old lady, could have been carrying a gun, knife or bomb for all we know. It doesn't excuse the aggression but it's certainly something to consider when condemning the officer.

tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

Not sure why the incident escalated in the way it did - the car appears contained, with a vehicle across the front of it, I suppose if the driver was adamant he wasn't getting out, or wasn't going to comply, police have to act decisively and not back down, do we know that drink driving or driving while on drugs wasn't a factor - what other options are avaiable if police believe the guy is off his **** for example and refuses to switch off the igniton - in those circumstances I couldn't care less if they drag him out through the rear quarterlight.

I would call into question the motives of someone who has their camera rolling in such circumstances.

jonc

You're right, he could have been a gun toting, knife wielding granny rapist with a bomb strapped to him, and that officer dealt with the situation perfectly, textbook policing.