Gorilla killing
#1
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Gorilla killing
I don't quite understand how a three foot fence, some bushes and an incline is deemed to be enough of a barrier to save the captives from the onlookers?
#4
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You can't legislate against utter stupidity (on the part of the parents obviously). Tragic that they had to kill the beast rather than tranquilise it or something.
#5
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I wondered that, have they said sedating it could have made it initially aggressive until it took hold? Must be a reason.
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The video on social media/news does not show the whole thing, apparently. The zoo said that the gorilla dragged the child around several times over a period of 10 minutes and the situation was a lot more dangerous than it appeared.
I would imagine that a zoo would not take the decision to shoot it dead without carefully considering other options. It's not like a tiger, who's natural instinct is a predator, gorillas are herbivores who can be very aggressive, or, as was shown in the past, very caring.
I would imagine that a zoo would not take the decision to shoot it dead without carefully considering other options. It's not like a tiger, who's natural instinct is a predator, gorillas are herbivores who can be very aggressive, or, as was shown in the past, very caring.
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this was an interesting read
I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.
Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.
Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.
I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.
I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted ***** around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.
Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.
*me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.
Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.
Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.
I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.
I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted ***** around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.
Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.
*me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009
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#8
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IMO it wasn't worth the risk of a child potentially dieing, so they did the right thing in shooting it, as tragic as it may seem. The way the gorilla dragged the child around and at great speed is staggering.
If you compare it to the video in the 80s where a child fell in, the gorilla acted in a completely different way.
If you compare it to the video in the 80s where a child fell in, the gorilla acted in a completely different way.
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You wonder why the kid didn't have his shooter on him
I still think 3' isn't enough protection for the gorilla
I still think 3' isn't enough protection for the gorilla
Last edited by dpb; 01 June 2016 at 12:24 PM.
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A secondary barrier with no-mans land in between or ideally a glass wall around would have done the trick.
Of course option 1b would have been to have shot the kid and kept the gorilla.....
Parent/s need sorting out too - perhaps just put them in the enclosure for a while and see how they like it.
Just heard that they have found 40 tiger cubs in a deep freeze in a Thai temple. It's not the creatures that are animals in this tainted world is it?
David
Of course option 1b would have been to have shot the kid and kept the gorilla.....
Parent/s need sorting out too - perhaps just put them in the enclosure for a while and see how they like it.
Just heard that they have found 40 tiger cubs in a deep freeze in a Thai temple. It's not the creatures that are animals in this tainted world is it?
David
#13
Some Animal Rights people can be a bit unreasonable, sometimes. A school mum I used to know once told me that she'd have no qualms about sending a letter bomb to someone who treated their animal with cruelty. I get her sentiment but but her proposed action was certainly too extreme. No need to be that radical.
In gorrila's case, parents certainly should have held the boy tight, but sh7t just happens, sometimes. It only takes a split of a second. If gorilla had killed or severely injured the boy and if the zoo had still saved the animal, they still would have faced a controversy.
I understand why the zoo keeper says that he'd do the same again, if another kid falls in. IMO he should focus on upping the fence instead, now. Then no child will fall in and he won't have to do the same again.
I hear that the Animal Rights people are saying that the zoo is a bit careless, and apparently two polar bears were seen walking Scot free in the zoo park (for humans) with a *** each in their mouth. That's why they're even more on the zoo's case.
The News today said that in another planet, hardy Arnie had to run a mile for his life from a fuming elephant chasing him like hurricane Andrew! . I can imagine why they didn't shoot or even shout at the elephant for that.
Last edited by Turbohot; 01 June 2016 at 01:57 PM.
#14
A secondary barrier with no-mans land in between or ideally a glass wall around would have done the trick.
Of course option 1b would have been to have shot the kid and kept the gorilla.....
Parent/s need sorting out too - perhaps just put them in the enclosure for a while and see how they like it.
Just heard that they have found 40 tiger cubs in a deep freeze in a Thai temple. It's not the creatures that are animals in this tainted world is it?
David
Of course option 1b would have been to have shot the kid and kept the gorilla.....
Parent/s need sorting out too - perhaps just put them in the enclosure for a while and see how they like it.
Just heard that they have found 40 tiger cubs in a deep freeze in a Thai temple. It's not the creatures that are animals in this tainted world is it?
David
I always wanted to visit the Tiger Temple in Thailand. Then I heard that they're doped by the monks to act all docile. That was awful enough to know.
Last edited by Turbohot; 01 June 2016 at 01:55 PM.
#17
The video on social media/news does not show the whole thing, apparently. The zoo said that the gorilla dragged the child around several times over a period of 10 minutes and the situation was a lot more dangerous than it appeared.
I would imagine that a zoo would not take the decision to shoot it dead without carefully considering other options. It's not like a tiger, who's natural instinct is a predator, gorillas are herbivores who can be very aggressive, or, as was shown in the past, very caring.
I would imagine that a zoo would not take the decision to shoot it dead without carefully considering other options. It's not like a tiger, who's natural instinct is a predator, gorillas are herbivores who can be very aggressive, or, as was shown in the past, very caring.
What I can't abide by are the countless armchair experts on social media who suddenly became gorilla behavioral experts with their sanctimonious outrage at the parent's negligence that supposedly led to the death of an ape with some advocating the shooting of the child instead. These are the very people who are likely to forget this story in a few weeks time and continue to use palm oil based products that threaten the gorilla's natural habitat.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-dragged-into/
not quite sure how a child could actually survive a gator attack , as they have suggested
more missadventure
not quite sure how a child could actually survive a gator attack , as they have suggested
more missadventure
#20
In light of the needless killing of the magnificent animal, Harambe the silverback gorilla, 6 alligators were also needlessly killed in the search for the boy. Where was the mother? She should be charged for child neglect and destruction 6 magnificent animals.
Je suis Alligator.......
Je suis Alligator.......
#22
All of what I typed is to take the p!ss out of all those who cried foul when the gorilla was killed to save the child. I thought "Je suis Alligator" might have indicated that. I would have added an "" but a little boy died.
There was no explosion of outrage on twitter or facebook in the killing of these alligators. Double standards exist presumably because the alligators aren't fury cuddly animals.
There was no explosion of outrage on twitter or facebook in the killing of these alligators. Double standards exist presumably because the alligators aren't fury cuddly animals.
Last edited by jonc; 16 June 2016 at 10:22 AM.
#25
They didn't need to be swimming, just at the waters edge. Reminded me of those wildlife documentaries in Africa with the Croc grabbing a Wildebeest at the waters edge.
A two year old would have been a tempting tasty snack for a Gaitor.
Plenty of signs, knowledge they are there and are wild animals, not tame pets + idiots = supper
A two year old would have been a tempting tasty snack for a Gaitor.
Plenty of signs, knowledge they are there and are wild animals, not tame pets + idiots = supper
#27
Another avoidable situation and another example of people not taking responsibility for their actions, no doubt the parents will blame the hotel and want to bring a law suit against them
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I am not saying this with hindsight but Crocs/Gaitors scare the life out of me. If I drove up with my family and saw a Gaitor warning I wouldn't even get out of the car, let alone go for a paddle. Simply horrific for the parents when all is said and done.
dl
dl
#30
I agree that the lessons should be learnt and precaution is better than inviting the tragedy, but the judgemental tongue wagging is so very popular these days. Internet makes it worse! People forget that things like that can happen anywhere in a matter of seconds. Going by the judgemental mindsets on such cases, should we just say that it's our fault that we persist to exist on the earth full of these split-seconds mishaps, and that's why no wonder that these things happen to us? Shall we just go around in full body armour and shields with a spear each; just in case?
In my opinion, sometimes in such cases it is blatant carelessness or over-confidence on the caregiver's part, but it's not always like that. In this crocodile case, it seems that such happening is extremely rare, and it just had to be that family facing it. It must be so traumatic for the father to bear the fact that he couldn't save his child! I hope God gives him strength.
I hear that there were no BEWARE Of THE CROCODILES signs near the shallow water where the child was playing.