Should British and American fighters...
30 January 2015, 10:34 AM
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Don't milk it.It would only churn up the problem.We could try buttering them up but only if we send in the cream.
30 January 2015, 06:50 PM
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30 January 2015, 06:55 PM
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10 February 2015, 09:59 AM
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Thought I'd bump this thread as it could be interesting. I see there are fighters of different nationalities, faiths and backgrounds going out to stand with the Kurds. So again, it begs the question, should the UK government allow this and if so, should the fighters be allowed to return?
Last edited by JTaylor; 10 February 2015 at 10:03 AM.
10 February 2015, 10:55 AM
#12
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The difference is whether UK nationals are fighting with a terrorist organisation such as ISIS which must be stopped and is illegal or supporting an already UK backed military force which is therefore perfectly fine.
What I suspect the UK Government doesn't like is UK nationals turning up and being trained by UK forces who are there to train and assist the Peshmerga. That gives the opportunity no matter how small the risk of media outlets having a presence there under the guise of them being there to join the cause. Of course training the Peshmerga is also a legitimate way for the UK Government to have a special forces unit on the ground in Iraq under the pretence of them being there purely in a support capacity.
Edited because my initial response was to say yes they should on the basis the Peshmerga aren't a terrorist organisation. However there is a very big difference between ex UK soldiers turning up to fight and say some spotty teenager who hasn't got a clue what they are doing. On that basis i'd change my response and say no it's not fine because there is no way of vetting who is fine to be there so I can understand there being a blanket ban on UK nationals being present who aren't there in an official military capacity.
What I suspect the UK Government doesn't like is UK nationals turning up and being trained by UK forces who are there to train and assist the Peshmerga. That gives the opportunity no matter how small the risk of media outlets having a presence there under the guise of them being there to join the cause. Of course training the Peshmerga is also a legitimate way for the UK Government to have a special forces unit on the ground in Iraq under the pretence of them being there purely in a support capacity.
Edited because my initial response was to say yes they should on the basis the Peshmerga aren't a terrorist organisation. However there is a very big difference between ex UK soldiers turning up to fight and say some spotty teenager who hasn't got a clue what they are doing. On that basis i'd change my response and say no it's not fine because there is no way of vetting who is fine to be there so I can understand there being a blanket ban on UK nationals being present who aren't there in an official military capacity.
Last edited by An0n0m0us; 10 February 2015 at 11:08 AM.
10 February 2015, 01:25 PM
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What are you on about? 
If you can't differentiate between someone joining a terrorist organisation and someone wanting to join a multi Government backed military operation fighting against those terrorists then you aren't worth the time in discussing such a topic.
If you can't differentiate between someone joining a terrorist organisation and someone wanting to join a multi Government backed military operation fighting against those terrorists then you aren't worth the time in discussing such a topic.
10 February 2015, 01:51 PM
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And to add to my post above where i've said I don't believe it should be allowed is that it can also lead to the presence of mercenary groups being out there. The US has a long history of using such groups, Blackwater being a high profile one and it leads to nothing but trouble as they aren't bound by military conduct/rules/laws/Geneva Convention etc and therefore act outside of the law.
10 February 2015, 01:52 PM
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The Islamists don't consider themselves a terrorist organisation; they're attempting to establish a caliphate. Why is it illegitimate? Who's the arbiter?
10 February 2015, 02:42 PM
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the use of private individuals, as you say, outside any judicial oversight, riding around in pickup trucks with M16's shooting up who ever they chose
the arbiters of life and death for many luckless Iraqi's
and now we have programmes like Operation "Gorgon Stare" operating "signature" strikes in Afghanistan from pilotless Drones, flown by people sitting in Kansas - where Artificial Intelligence(computers) can make the final choice between life and death - based on pre-programmed data
amazing to think only 20 years after the original Terminator movie
10 February 2015, 03:13 PM
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10 February 2015, 04:22 PM
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yes, this was one of the most disturbing facets about the Iraq war - one that is rarely told - and in fact started a recent trend of "privatising" war
the use of private individuals, as you say, outside any judicial oversight, riding around in pickup trucks with M16's shooting up who ever they chose
the arbiters of life and death for many luckless Iraqi's
and now we have programmes like Operation "Gorgon Stare" operating "signature" strikes in Afghanistan from pilotless Drones, flown by people sitting in Kansas - where Artificial Intelligence(computers) can make the final choice between life and death - based on pre-programmed data
amazing to think only 20 years after the original Terminator movie
the use of private individuals, as you say, outside any judicial oversight, riding around in pickup trucks with M16's shooting up who ever they chose
the arbiters of life and death for many luckless Iraqi's
and now we have programmes like Operation "Gorgon Stare" operating "signature" strikes in Afghanistan from pilotless Drones, flown by people sitting in Kansas - where Artificial Intelligence(computers) can make the final choice between life and death - based on pre-programmed data
amazing to think only 20 years after the original Terminator movie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi...Blackwater_USA
They allegedly don't exist any more due to the rebranding and company takeover but there have been suggestions 'Blackwater' is operating in Ukraine since the Russian invasion.
Last edited by An0n0m0us; 10 February 2015 at 04:27 PM.
10 February 2015, 04:48 PM
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10 February 2015, 04:49 PM
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10 February 2015, 05:04 PM
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10 February 2015, 05:10 PM
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They were a law unto themselves in Iraq:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi...Blackwater_USA
They allegedly don't exist any more due to the rebranding and company takeover but there have been suggestions 'Blackwater' is operating in Ukraine since the Russian invasion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi...Blackwater_USA
They allegedly don't exist any more due to the rebranding and company takeover but there have been suggestions 'Blackwater' is operating in Ukraine since the Russian invasion.
I quoted the famous photographer Don Mccullin (responsible for some of the most haunting images ever)
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ph...r+don+mccullin
who whilst photographing white South African Mercenaries in the Biafran war, asked them "Why" - and they simply said "because they like killing blacks"
they really did unleash the "dogs of war" on the Iraqi people
11 February 2015, 12:55 PM
#27
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Here's an example:
Scene A - Christian knocks on door holding a copy of the bible and a load of leaflets telling you about the coming of Christ and could talk the hind legs off a donkey. You shut the door saying no thanks and they walk off to the next house.
Scene B - Christian knocks on door holding a machete, an orange jumpsuit and a video camera. You open the door, say no thanks he comes in and cuts your head off and posts the footage on youtube telling the World about the coming of Christ.
Now which one of those would the majority of the World's population deem to be extremist?
It's not about what faith someone is it's about their actions in how they go about defending their faith. Brutally murdering innocent people as you rampage across 2 countries to setup a caliphate is not acceptable under any faith or any international laws.
Last edited by An0n0m0us; 11 February 2015 at 12:56 PM.
11 February 2015, 12:56 PM
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Obviously, if they take extreme measures to defend their Christianity e.g. by flying planes into the mosques to demolish the buildings and to kill thousands of people, beheading non-Christians left right and in centre and kidnapping the live ones for ransom etc. and then killing them as well if their conditions aren't met.
11 February 2015, 01:15 PM
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OK you're just not getting the point are you?
Here's an example:
Scene A - Christian knocks on door holding a copy of the bible and a load of leaflets telling you about the coming of Christ and could talk the hind legs off a donkey. You shut the door saying no thanks and they walk off to the next house.
Scene B - Christian knocks on door holding a machete, an orange jumpsuit and a video camera. You open the door, say no thanks he comes in and cuts your head off and posts the footage on youtube telling the World about the coming of Christ.
Now which one of those would the majority of the World's population deem to be extremist?
It's not about what faith someone is it's about their actions in how they go about defending their faith. Brutally murdering innocent people as you rampage across 2 countries to setup a caliphate is not acceptable under any faith or any international laws.
Here's an example:
Scene A - Christian knocks on door holding a copy of the bible and a load of leaflets telling you about the coming of Christ and could talk the hind legs off a donkey. You shut the door saying no thanks and they walk off to the next house.
Scene B - Christian knocks on door holding a machete, an orange jumpsuit and a video camera. You open the door, say no thanks he comes in and cuts your head off and posts the footage on youtube telling the World about the coming of Christ.
Now which one of those would the majority of the World's population deem to be extremist?
It's not about what faith someone is it's about their actions in how they go about defending their faith. Brutally murdering innocent people as you rampage across 2 countries to setup a caliphate is not acceptable under any faith or any international laws.
11 February 2015, 01:29 PM
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Um, let me think.
Obviously, if they take extreme measures to defend their Christianity e.g. by flying planes into the mosques to demolish the buildings and to kill thousands of people, beheading non-Christians left right and in centre and kidnapping the live ones for ransom etc. and then killing them as well if their conditions aren't met.
Obviously, if they take extreme measures to defend their Christianity e.g. by flying planes into the mosques to demolish the buildings and to kill thousands of people, beheading non-Christians left right and in centre and kidnapping the live ones for ransom etc. and then killing them as well if their conditions aren't met.