JTaylor

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30420218

And that's just November!

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Not defending the ***** in your link but if you're going to post about the middle east post a complete picture cheers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30411466

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-30383601

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-30407609

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

664 in a month? Hmmmm, by my calculations that's only another 1506 moths before they reach the same number of civilians Blair and Bush wasted in Iraq!

On a serious note what exactly are the BBC trying to achieve by that article? Keeps the old Muslim demonisation flag burning nicely for Mr. Cameron after his deal with them over certain things I shouldn't wonder!

Shaid

Bad isn't it?

warrenm2

Its a religion of peace, you've been told before!

And f1 - read the link - its 5000 people killed in November (664 ATTACKS). And Banny, whilst I agree you should look at the whole picture, I've implied from your post of some equivalence of "all as bad as each other", which I completely disagree with. This article makes the point well http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-L...ded-Delingpole

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Not implied at all, I am categorically stating they are all as bad as each other!

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Thought you'd be all over this with a semi and dick in hand.

warrenm2

Thought you'd be a complete waste of bandwidth offering nothing useful (which would be a bit beyond you anyway) ....

JTaylor

Can't we just discuss this, fellas? Why does it have to get personal?


Warren - reasonably fair article I thought. However, I'm opposed to torture, even if there is a ticking bomb. First, because it's inhuman; second, because it allows the unthinking of all stripes to claim that there is just cause for the kind of atrocities listed in the piece. If, for every innocent civilian 'saved' via the intelligence gleaned from a waterboarded jihadi, there are two more jihadis created, then I'm afraid the numbers don't stack-up.

Regarding the 664 attacks across several continents, I fear we're in a world war of sorts. The opponents of Islamism need to be able to claim the moral high ground as part of their strategy. We do not want to feed the enemy's hunger for propaganda material.

Shaid

I just want Jesus to come back, kill the anti Christ and destroy the savage unbelieving armies of Gog and Magog, Christians will recognise the truth and accept Jesus as a Muslim Prophet and Messenger of God. NOT his son and all that nonsense

The religion of God will justly rule the World. There will be no more oppression or wars, and peace will prevail. Furthermore every human being will be financially well-off and no one will accept charity. Jesus will perform pilgrimage, marry, begets children, and die after living on Earth. His death will signal the beginning of the last days for humanity before the Day of Judgment.

And whilst all this is going on... YOU JTaylor will be my bitch

JTaylor

How much jizya will you impose, Shaid?

Devildog

If there were not so many attrocities carried out by these crazy f*ckers in the name of Islam, perhaps the CIA wouldn'y have to resort to torturing suspects?

Just sayin.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

I hope you get rectal rehydration someday.... just saying

zip106

I'm all for that, but will we still be able to have a bacon butty of a Sunday morning?

An0n0m0us

What a worthwhile and valid reply

But then anyone who thinks terrorists murdering innocent people including children in the name of Islam is no worse than a Government's anti terrorist branch interrogating caught terrorists to potentially save lives and use whatever methods are deemed necessary is quite clearly another Jihadist sympathiser nut job.

Awaits another one of your great come backs

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fahd-g...tml?1418153077

Fahd Ghazy has been illegally detained at Guantánamo since he was 17. He is now 30 years old. He has been cleared for release since 2007. He is represented by the Center for Constitutional Rights.
To begin, please forgive me for not saying the right things or making the right points. There are different cultures between us and many different experiences.
It hurts me that I do not have the privilege to express myself. I want to have the honor to speak out in my own voice and reach you directly -- you who are thinking people. I want to say thank you for caring. You are willing to view me as a human being and that is something so precious to me.
My exposure to the world came through Guantanamo. I was 17 when they sent me here. At that time, I had rarely seen a television or heard a radio. Every significant event in my life, from funerals, to my own wedding, to the birth of my beloved daughter, Hafsa, happened in the Diwan of my own home. Now I am almost 31.

That means I grew up in Guantanamo. I grew up in this system. I grew up in fear. I hope that helps you to understand me.
I hope I will be heard.
Here, at Guantanamo, I am never heard. I am only ignored. In 13 years of imprisonment without charge, I've never been able to tell anyone who I really am.
I am not ISN 026. That is the government's number.
My name is Fahd Abdullah Ahmed Ghazy. I am a human being -- a man -- who is loved and who loves.
--
I wish I had the ability to describe the passage of 13 years at Guantanamo. My own mind shuts down when I try to think about it. And I have no words that can make you truly understand.
In that time, I have lost so much both here inside the prison and outside in the world I left.
I miss my home -- too much. But the truth is that if I returned to my village tomorrow, I would be a stranger, even among the people who love me the most.
A few days ago, Omar brought me dozens of photographs of my village that were taken during the filming of Waiting for Fahd. I carried them back to my cell and held them with me like a treasure - I looked at every face, every building, and every mountain peak. I stayed up until the dawn hours before Fajr prayer, studying the images one by one. My mind and my heart raced. I wanted to be able to recognize every detail in the photos to be reminded of my life before Guantanamo. But it was nearly impossible.
I did not even recognize the faces of my best friends.
My younger brother, Abdur-Raheem, who I used to feed and care for and discipline, does not know me. Now he only knows of me.
The children in the village were just babies when I left. I have become just a name to them. There is even another Fahd Ghazy in the village now, a nephew of mine. He is already a teenager, nearly the age I was the last time I saw my home.

As for the old generation? They are nearly all gone, one by one, while I have been waiting.
The most tragic loss I endured at Guantanamo was the sudden death of my uncle. He became like a father to me when my own father died. He was also my teacher and my mentor. I relied on him and he looked after me.
He could not stand the pain of knowing that I had been imprisoned in this place. Whenever I was permitted to have calls to my family he would not participate. He would not allow himself to see me here or talk to me. He could not even bear to write me letters.
But I missed him terribly and I was selfish. I wanted to see his face, just to be reminded of him and feel comforted. I wrote to him. I pleaded with other family members. I begged him to accept a video call from me. Finally he agreed.
It was 8 a.m. in Camp Echo on a Wednesday. The Red Crescent called the names of the family members in Sana'a who had come to join a video call with me. I cried just hearing my uncle's name announced. I was overwhelmed, but he maintained his composure.
"We love you," he said. "We are waiting for you. We will keep waiting for you."
And then, right in front of my eyes, he died. He stopped talking and his head fell back. My family rushed to support him and the line cut. I sat in silence, shackled in my chair, helpless.
When the line reconnected there was no longer an image. I only heard my brother, Mohammed's, voice. "He's gone," Mohammed said. "It was too much for him."
In that moment I truly learned what Guantanamo is and how much power it has over those of us inside and those left outside.
Time has left me behind at Guantanamo. I have to accept this, but it makes me feel such loneliness and isolation. I appear fine on the outside, but I am being destroyed on the inside.
--
There is no guilt and no innocence here at Guantanamo. Those ideas are empty. That's just a game that is played.
But there is always right and wrong. That can never change.
Even the ones who have caged me know what is right. What is right is to free me. I have been cleared. That means a lot here at Guantanamo, except if you are from Yemen. I have been cleared for release since 2007, but I am still waiting for my freedom.
I have been waiting a lifetime just to start my life again.
The first time I saw Omar after he returned from Yemen, I was so overjoyed, just to see someone who was face-to-face with my daughter and my family. He had touched them. Here in front of me was someone who had actually been inside my house and ate the food I used to eat. He heard my mother's voice. He experienced everything I had before and everything I want to have again. I could almost grasp it. For a moment, I was reconnected.

What you see in Waiting for Fahd is my dream. But I do not want it to be only a dream. I want it to come true. You can help make it come true. You can help me.
Children, I ask you to think about my daughter, Hafsa.
To the youth, remember age 17. Think about how I have been deprived of everything a young man needs to mature in this life: a job, education, experiences to learn from.
Wives, think of my wife who spent the spring of her life -- her youth- - waiting for me, caring for Hafsa alone.
Mothers, think of me when you think of your sons. Think of my mother longing for hers.
Fathers, think of me reaching out to my daughter from inside this place.
I have missed the best moments a father could ever enjoy: Hafsa's first steps; walking her to school; witnessing her successes; helping her when she stumbles. I look forward to the day when I will no longer miss her. I will be next to her and from then on I will not miss a minute.
I am starving for those moments, when she looks at me and smiles or says a kind words or laughs.
That is the desire I have in the deepest part of my soul.
Now that you have heard my story and seen my dreams, you cannot turn away. You are excused only when you do not know. But now that you know, you cannot turn away.
I ask you: Be a voice for the voiceless -- for another human being who is suffering.

An0n0m0us

Well a least that's a proper reply this time, of sorts. I don't doubt there are innocents held by the US but do you think everyone there is the same situation as the above? Are there no terrorists then and the US shouldn't be hunting them down?

Interestingly nowhere does it state why and how he was captured and what lead to him being incarcerated in Guantanamo. That could shed quite a different light on the article and you have to ask why it's been left out.

If the security services get a tip off and go into a village based on credible information of terrorist cells/training camps etc do you think they can believe anyone who turns round said oh it wasn't me i'm innocent? Just reminds of the The Life of Brian, I'm Brian and so's my Wife. Who can you believe in a situation like that?

But then that's what the terrorists like to do, use the innocent civilians around them to try and hide and risks those innocent lives for the sake of their own lunatic ideals.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

As previously said if you missed it, there are evil ***** on both sidesvno sympathy for either just for the innocents caught in the middle who have to endure needless pain

An0n0m0us

Yes and I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that point. However it doesn't answer the question of how do the US go about hunting down the terrorists without risking taking innocents along with the guilty when they are all in the same place?

That they just give up on their war of terror and not go after any more terrorists?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

You reap what you sow. Some of these nut jobs in the Middle East are the same people we (the West) were lauding as freedom fighters and allies during the uprising. The same people we armed and aided financially.
I've said it before, create a vacuum of power and it will be filled. In the absence of a functioning system and law and order that vacuum will be filled by those we desire the least.
Nobody in the right mind can condone the atrocities perpetrated by these people. It is barbarism and anarchy of the highest order. This is what happens when law and order disintegrate and it becomes a case of join us or die.
It is said we in the West are three meals away from anarchy, the recent Black Friday sales gives an insight in to human behaviour when the most basic of instincts are unshackled. Fundementalism is a seed borne out situations that we see in the Middle East. There's no reasoning or bargaining with it's adherents.
There's an eerie silence over the role of the Saudis in this too. They (the Saudis) are allowing terrorism and actively supporting it, yet no condemnation from any corner in the West. Why the hypocrisy and double standards?

Shaid

Yep

But only if they are killed 'humanely'

Shaid

There will be no need as all the unbelieving ***** will die in the rapture.

JTaylor

Do you class Christians and Jews as infidels or do you limit that to atheists, agnostics and polytheists?

Shaid

How about thinking outside of the box

How about we just get rid of the US? Not like... get rid of them totally or anything like that but just equate their global power to rank alongside North Korea (aka a annoying little lying regime that nobody takes seriously). They should stick to doing awesome stuff with technology, space exploration, doing stuff to Aliens in Area 51, making kick *** movies and just being the America i was led to believe it was when i was a wee lad.

With America gone, the Israel problem would be sorted as well. Without their funding they won't be able to terrorise the Palestinians and the middle east can start rebuilding itself once the power vacuum is settled without Us interference. Okay we will then be in deep **** as we realise that we are not as powerful as we thought, China and Russia might start flexing some muscle but hey.... at least my religion won't get the blame for the problems created by the Mericans.

Shaid

Nope, the term 'infidel' means someone who is 'unfaithful'. Jews and Christians are faithful towards God. They are people of the book. We are all technically 'brothers' as we all believe in Adam and Eve and we are all children of 'Abraham'.

JTaylor

What about somebody like me who's a theistic evolutionist and believes Adam and Eve to be allegorical?

RS_Matt

It's not the propaganda posted on SN that worries me, Britain First have just hit 600,000 followers.

Shaid

I am not to judge. After All i do not know what will happen to me on my demise.

However i'd be kind to you.

When we rule the world i will MAKE you wear this... either by choice or by force



And when you be annoying you shall be forced to wear this...

JTaylor

Promise?

Shaid