Net immigration up
27 November 2014, 01:19 PM
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Net immigration up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30224637
Another 20% ( 50 k ) for immigration from outside eu.
What an outrage that it's even an issue, after the various plundering we've carried out around the world !
Another 20% ( 50 k ) for immigration from outside eu.
What an outrage that it's even an issue, after the various plundering we've carried out around the world !
27 November 2014, 01:41 PM
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Its an outrage that you think that we should accept any third world dross and then home, feed and cloth them at taxpayers expense whilst they go on to rape and murder in return (like the 14 strong somali gang)
Last edited by warrenm2; 27 November 2014 at 01:47 PM.
27 November 2014, 01:44 PM
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27 November 2014, 02:47 PM
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So what's your view on this then Martin, I'm assuming you think it's great having vast numbers of people coming to live here, I'd be genuinely interested to know (assuming a naive lefty view-point that completely ignores the financial impact and impact on society, but you're clearly an intelligent bloke all the same, so I like to think I might be wrong?..)
27 November 2014, 03:46 PM
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So what's your view on this then Martin, I'm assuming you think it's great having vast numbers of people coming to live here, I'd be genuinely interested to know (assuming a naive lefty view-point that completely ignores the financial impact and impact on society, but you're clearly an intelligent bloke all the same, so I like to think I might be wrong?..)
I have never, not even once, suggested that uncontrolled, unlimited immigration would be socially or economically right or beneficial to the UK.
I firmly believe that on the whole immigration is a good thing for the UK though. I’ll use my own industry as an example, I work in the world of management consultancy, we hire high calibre maths and stats grads. Out of necessity most grads (with the right qualifications) come from outside the UK. This is not financially driven, we pay high wages to good people irrespective of where they come from, this is pure supply and demand. There are simply not enough Brits doing maths degrees to satisfy domestic demand. Without the ability to recruit from outside, we would be smaller, less capable and far less competitive.
In many ways this is the problem in lower paid jobs, where in London (as an example) countless thousands of jobs are being done by immigrants. Demand is massively outstripping supply.
My objection is to the way this debate is conducted. Immigrants are not to blame for the UK social and economic ills. Without immigration our economy would be significantly smaller, and our life much less rich.
UKIP want to scare you, they want us divided against ourselves. The most frustrating thing for me is that now the Tories and Labour are climbing in, in an attempt to outdo each other.
I’d like a debate where the full facts about immigration are debated. You know the proper issues, not the fear and prejudice that we have at the moment. Issues like social cohesion, pensions, housing, competiveness and population growth. These are the real issues, and they are as far from as one sided as Farage would have you believe.
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27 November 2014, 05:05 PM
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Thanks Martin, interesting to read your opinions there, and in the most part I agree.
In my industry too (IT) there are often cases where someone with the right skills cannot be found, so to fill this requirement someone is brought in from overseas. Skilled immigration and immigration to fill low paid jobs is clearly a good thing. I'd be interested to know how many of the near 600,000 people who came to the UK over the last year fit this definition - my guess would be only a small proportion, I would think the biggest proportion are unskilled economic migrations who will take out more they put in.
The fact immigration has become such a taboo issue means it is almost impossible to debate it constructively without liberals shouting 'racist' as soon as anyone suggests a cap. Hopefully this will change soon, but the fact one of the Conservatives election promises was to 'reduce immigration' to 10's of thousands, only to have it increase to a net gain of almost 300,000 says it all...
In my industry too (IT) there are often cases where someone with the right skills cannot be found, so to fill this requirement someone is brought in from overseas. Skilled immigration and immigration to fill low paid jobs is clearly a good thing. I'd be interested to know how many of the near 600,000 people who came to the UK over the last year fit this definition - my guess would be only a small proportion, I would think the biggest proportion are unskilled economic migrations who will take out more they put in.
The fact immigration has become such a taboo issue means it is almost impossible to debate it constructively without liberals shouting 'racist' as soon as anyone suggests a cap. Hopefully this will change soon, but the fact one of the Conservatives election promises was to 'reduce immigration' to 10's of thousands, only to have it increase to a net gain of almost 300,000 says it all...
Last edited by Petem95; 27 November 2014 at 05:06 PM.
27 November 2014, 05:06 PM
#9
Ukip and co want people to believe that these immigrants are here to claim benefits and rape our children. The truth is many are doctors, nurses, dentists, mathematicians, engineers etc. Most of the current ills in the uk are as a result of the actions of the banking industry, ironically the recipients of several billion in government benefits, not immigrants. Farage is from a banking background. Nuff said.
27 November 2014, 05:14 PM
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Ukip and co want people to believe that these immigrants are here to claim benefits and rape our children. The truth is many are doctors, nurses, dentists, mathematicians, engineers etc. Most of the current ills in the uk are as a result of the actions of the banking industry, ironically the recipients of several billion in government benefits, not immigrants. Farage is from a banking background. Nuff said.
Regarding immigration - look at the facts - immigrants from outside of the EU who have come to live in the UK have taken out significantly more than they've put in over the past 8 years. Ok some will have filled skills gaps, but too many are just living on benefits - that's not my view, that's fact. The majority in this group were from Pakistan and African countries.
EU immigrants contributed more than they took out over the same period, as they are generally coming here to work and earn more than they could at home. Difficult to say if this would still be the case in the longer term however, as the whole system in the UK means people are on average entitled to take more out than they put in - the difference is made up of significant government borrowing. Clearly not a sustainable situation. Either we face up to massive cuts in social services (doesn't look likely), or just keep going until we hit a brick wall. Things won't get better as the population ages.
27 November 2014, 06:56 PM
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Some banker bonuses are absurd, but unfortunately the financial sector contributes a significant part of UK GDP. If we hammer this industry it will simply move overseas and we'll have less money to spend on social services etc, that's what a lot of people just don't understand.
Regarding immigration - look at the facts - immigrants from outside of the EU who have come to live in the UK have taken out significantly more than they've put in over the past 8 years. Ok some will have filled skills gaps, but too many are just living on benefits - that's not my view, that's fact. The majority in this group were from Pakistan and African countries.
EU immigrants contributed more than they took out over the same period, as they are generally coming here to work and earn more than they could at home. Difficult to say if this would still be the case in the longer term however, as the whole system in the UK means people are on average entitled to take more out than they put in - the difference is made up of significant government borrowing. Clearly not a sustainable situation. Either we face up to massive cuts in social services (doesn't look likely), or just keep going until we hit a brick wall. Things won't get better as the population ages.
Regarding immigration - look at the facts - immigrants from outside of the EU who have come to live in the UK have taken out significantly more than they've put in over the past 8 years. Ok some will have filled skills gaps, but too many are just living on benefits - that's not my view, that's fact. The majority in this group were from Pakistan and African countries.
EU immigrants contributed more than they took out over the same period, as they are generally coming here to work and earn more than they could at home. Difficult to say if this would still be the case in the longer term however, as the whole system in the UK means people are on average entitled to take more out than they put in - the difference is made up of significant government borrowing. Clearly not a sustainable situation. Either we face up to massive cuts in social services (doesn't look likely), or just keep going until we hit a brick wall. Things won't get better as the population ages.
All I can say is that of the Africans iv met not one of them has come here to sit around ( the folk back home just wouldn't wear it, since they are relying on them ) .
So maybe they're not spending as much as they could here, but they are paying rent and taxes
27 November 2014, 07:19 PM
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27 November 2014, 08:15 PM
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UKIP want to scare you, they want us divided against ourselves. The most frustrating thing for me is that now the Tories and Labour are climbing in, in an attempt to outdo each other.
I’d like a debate where the full facts about immigration are debated. You know the proper issues, not the fear and prejudice that we have at the moment. Issues like social cohesion, pensions, housing, competiveness and population growth. These are the real issues, and they are as far from as one sided as Farage would have you believe.
I’d like a debate where the full facts about immigration are debated. You know the proper issues, not the fear and prejudice that we have at the moment. Issues like social cohesion, pensions, housing, competiveness and population growth. These are the real issues, and they are as far from as one sided as Farage would have you believe.
The belief that if they all went home, these jobs would suddenly become highly paid desirable ones seems fanciful
There would be a downward pressure on wages - and I suspect some people complaining about immigrants would end up doing those jobs anyway
And food prices would rise too
27 November 2014, 08:22 PM
#18
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So I’m back to being a ‘lefty’ now am I?
I have never, not even once, suggested that uncontrolled, unlimited immigration would be socially or economically right or beneficial to the UK.
I firmly believe that on the whole immigration is a good thing for the UK though. I’ll use my own industry as an example, I work in the world of management consultancy, we hire high calibre maths and stats grads. Out of necessity most grads (with the right qualifications) come from outside the UK. This is not financially driven, we pay high wages to good people irrespective of where they come from, this is pure supply and demand. There are simply not enough Brits doing maths degrees to satisfy domestic demand. Without the ability to recruit from outside, we would be smaller, less capable and far less competitive.
In many ways this is the problem in lower paid jobs, where in London (as an example) countless thousands of jobs are being done by immigrants. Demand is massively outstripping supply.
My objection is to the way this debate is conducted. Immigrants are not to blame for the UK social and economic ills. Without immigration our economy would be significantly smaller, and our life much less rich.
UKIP want to scare you, they want us divided against ourselves. The most frustrating thing for me is that now the Tories and Labour are climbing in, in an attempt to outdo each other.
I’d like a debate where the full facts about immigration are debated. You know the proper issues, not the fear and prejudice that we have at the moment. Issues like social cohesion, pensions, housing, competiveness and population growth. These are the real issues, and they are as far from as one sided as Farage would have you believe.
I have never, not even once, suggested that uncontrolled, unlimited immigration would be socially or economically right or beneficial to the UK.
I firmly believe that on the whole immigration is a good thing for the UK though. I’ll use my own industry as an example, I work in the world of management consultancy, we hire high calibre maths and stats grads. Out of necessity most grads (with the right qualifications) come from outside the UK. This is not financially driven, we pay high wages to good people irrespective of where they come from, this is pure supply and demand. There are simply not enough Brits doing maths degrees to satisfy domestic demand. Without the ability to recruit from outside, we would be smaller, less capable and far less competitive.
In many ways this is the problem in lower paid jobs, where in London (as an example) countless thousands of jobs are being done by immigrants. Demand is massively outstripping supply.
My objection is to the way this debate is conducted. Immigrants are not to blame for the UK social and economic ills. Without immigration our economy would be significantly smaller, and our life much less rich.
UKIP want to scare you, they want us divided against ourselves. The most frustrating thing for me is that now the Tories and Labour are climbing in, in an attempt to outdo each other.
I’d like a debate where the full facts about immigration are debated. You know the proper issues, not the fear and prejudice that we have at the moment. Issues like social cohesion, pensions, housing, competiveness and population growth. These are the real issues, and they are as far from as one sided as Farage would have you believe.
Double bubble, looks like a good bit of business to me
27 November 2014, 09:43 PM
#19
That's all fine and good..
Except that it's the tip of the iceberg.
Up here the EC migrants are now doing the jobs that WERE previously done by UK school and college leavers...except the EC lads work for minimum wage or less and live ten to a house, so the UK kids are unemployed and characterised as lazy work-shy yobs.
At the same time, unscrupulous employers are letting go UK workers, and taking on EC migrants at either minimum, or less than minimum wage.
Quite how this sort of thing is "good for the UK economy" is beyond me. Good for unscrupulous employers with huge homes, seven car garages and three Bentleys, maybe.........
And when I try and speak to people about it, I'm called liar, bigot and racist.
The country is fukcked, simples.
And folk like arch-apologist 2005 are part of the prblem: so far up their own arseholes they either can't, or won't see the problem.
I'm alright jack? Sure......... Fukyoo Jack, more like..........
Except that it's the tip of the iceberg.
Up here the EC migrants are now doing the jobs that WERE previously done by UK school and college leavers...except the EC lads work for minimum wage or less and live ten to a house, so the UK kids are unemployed and characterised as lazy work-shy yobs.
At the same time, unscrupulous employers are letting go UK workers, and taking on EC migrants at either minimum, or less than minimum wage.
Quite how this sort of thing is "good for the UK economy" is beyond me. Good for unscrupulous employers with huge homes, seven car garages and three Bentleys, maybe.........
And when I try and speak to people about it, I'm called liar, bigot and racist.
The country is fukcked, simples.
And folk like arch-apologist 2005 are part of the prblem: so far up their own arseholes they either can't, or won't see the problem.
I'm alright jack? Sure......... Fukyoo Jack, more like..........
27 November 2014, 09:59 PM
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That's all fine and good..
Except that it's the tip of the iceberg.
Up here the EC migrants are now doing the jobs that WERE previously done by UK school and college leavers...except the EC lads work for minimum wage or less and live ten to a house, so the UK kids are unemployed and characterised as lazy work-shy yobs.
At the same time, unscrupulous employers are letting go UK workers, and taking on EC migrants at either minimum, or less than minimum wage.
Quite how this sort of thing is "good for the UK economy" is beyond me. Good for unscrupulous employers with huge homes, seven car garages and three Bentleys, maybe.........
And when I try and speak to people about it, I'm called liar, bigot and racist.
The country is fukcked, simples.
And folk like arch-apologist 2005 are part of the prblem: so far up their own arseholes they either can't, or won't see the problem.
I'm alright jack? Sure......... Fukyoo Jack, more like..........
Except that it's the tip of the iceberg.
Up here the EC migrants are now doing the jobs that WERE previously done by UK school and college leavers...except the EC lads work for minimum wage or less and live ten to a house, so the UK kids are unemployed and characterised as lazy work-shy yobs.
At the same time, unscrupulous employers are letting go UK workers, and taking on EC migrants at either minimum, or less than minimum wage.
Quite how this sort of thing is "good for the UK economy" is beyond me. Good for unscrupulous employers with huge homes, seven car garages and three Bentleys, maybe.........
And when I try and speak to people about it, I'm called liar, bigot and racist.
The country is fukcked, simples.
And folk like arch-apologist 2005 are part of the prblem: so far up their own arseholes they either can't, or won't see the problem.
I'm alright jack? Sure......... Fukyoo Jack, more like..........
All I'm saying is that on balance immigration is positive for the country. The danager is throwing the proverbial baby out...
BTW to the best of my knowledge no one (on here at least) has called you a 'liar, bigot or racist', so pack it in with the 'I'm the victim' routine
Last edited by Martin2005; 27 November 2014 at 10:09 PM.
27 November 2014, 10:29 PM
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http://vid1092.photobucket.com/album...ps8gnqmmrm.mp4
This one's sister is probably looking after your grandma,because this is teh British way
Unless her bulgarian counterpart has stepped in , now she can
This one's sister is probably looking after your grandma,because this is teh British way
Unless her bulgarian counterpart has stepped in , now she can
27 November 2014, 10:39 PM
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You're all missing the point and that is that the lying **** Cameron knew from the outset that a net immigration target of 100K wasn't remotely achievable, but he thought he would pander to the popular vote..... luckily he's been found wanting yet again! Hopefully even the stupidest can start to see through him!
27 November 2014, 10:44 PM
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You're all missing the point and that is that the lying **** Cameron knew from the outset that a net immigration target of 100K wasn't remotely achievable, but he thought he would pander to the popular vote..... luckily he's been found wanting yet again! Hopefully even the stupidest can start to see through him!
28 November 2014, 07:18 AM
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