dabiscuit

This is a rant.

What is the f'ing point in start/stop?

I have recently purchased a Fiat 500 (I have a Hawk WRX for weekends) and it has start/stop technology. You can turn it off, but once you restart the engine it turn's itself back on. There is no permanent off choice.

Picture this; You drive up to some traffic lights and stop with the brake. The car cuts the engine. You put the handbrake on (a lost art by today's standards) so you take the foot off the brake and the engine turns back on! So to use the start/stop you have to keep you foot on the brake. Not good for your brake's longevity and it negates the use of the handbrake, unless you use brake and the handbrake whilst stationary (pointless).

Picture this further; You're on a hill, you brake to a halt the engine cuts out. Just as you do the lights change, no point with the handbrake. However because the engine is off and you don't have the handbrake on you roll back. It takes about half a second to a second for the engine to allow you drive away. This is just dangerous especially if the person behind has pulled up close. Also not good if you want to pull away quickly.

And honestly how much petrol does it save? Given the engine turns on and off I'd say it was less frugal, but I'm no car designer.

I don't know if it's different for other cars.

Rant over.

Ant

How much is the tax on your fiat 500?

That'll be the answer to why it exists most probably

dabiscuit

Tis only 20 quid, but my argument is that an engine uses more fuel turning on. I am not sure how long the car would have to be stationary with the engine on for it to produce more carbon dioxides than when it starts up.

I might be wrong. And tax should be means tested, so don't get me started on that!

GWJ

I found the stop/start fairly pointless too, for many of the reasons Dabiscuit states
On my car (which doesn't have it) I can utilise my own stop start logic.
When I roll up to traffic lights, if I know the sequence and timings (local area) I shut the engine off myself because I know I will be sat there for a minute or more so why waste fuel, likewise with level crossings. I don't need stop/start to do it for me.

DYK

Its the same now with some vehicles that cut the engine if been idling for 3 minutes or so.
And a similar topic,hill assist.Does your car have hill assist ? If so turn it on,will stop you from rolling back,but really it shouldn't be needed on a car.

dabiscuit

It doesn't have hill assist. It is an auto (for the missus), I much prefer a manual. Far more control.

Also when you're trying to do a turn in the road and you switch to reverse (once stationary) it cuts out then too, making people thinking you've stalled and then people laugh. I've laughed at others (such is the great British public) so it's only fair

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

I had a Fiat 500 last year as a courtesy car for a few weeks. This had the start/stop thing too but it only kicked in when stationary, out of gear and lift the clutch pedal up. Depress the clutch pedal again and it kicks into life. Nothibg to do with the brake pedal/handbrake. Was a 12 plate 5sp manual petrol if it makes any difference.

dabiscuit

My one is an auto. The auto gearbox isn't too bad actually.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Do you put it into neutral before releasing the brake, given it's an auto?

dabiscuit

Hmm, hadn't thought of that. I'll try it when I'm in it later.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

On my new Corsa (60 plate), it can be permanently turned off.
The engine only stops if you:
Knock it out of gear,
Put the handbrake on,
Lift your foot off the clutch.

I find it good for long traffic light stops, (like when you approach, they go red), and SALT stops.
Otherwise, leave my foot on the clutch, it doesn't stop.

First time it DID stop I thought I'd stalled it..........

Carnut

I HATE stop/start but it doesn't mean its a bad idea. I use my dads golf from time to time and it seems to me that its just that the fiat system is no good. The golf holds the break when you lift off and if you keep the clutch down then the engine will still run. You have the choice with the golf to drive it how you like.

P.s hate golfs/German cars as well as stop/start.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

A green tree hugger's gimmick and nothing more! I shall now sit at the traffic lights revving the nuts of my 5.4L V8 to compensate

dabiscuit

He he, nice. VXR? Just to confirm my fiat is an auto, no clutch so maybe it is a little different. Like you say though. More of a gimmick, unless of course your going to sat at lights or in traffic for a while, but then that begs the question why not just turn the car off?

I have a better idea, install tiny electric engines for speed under 10mph and when car is stationary. I call patent!

richs2891

It seem to me to work ok ish on the BMW and the Audi I had it on, but they where both manual, and press the clutch to start back up.
Both seemed to suffer from the same basic problem, if the engine had turned itself off and the car moved - ie on a hill the engine would start back up again.
They can be really really irritating if come to stop at lights or a traffic jam, engine goes and then need to start back up again quick.
Not tried it on a auto yet.

Richard

I guess its here to stay so kind ofhave to get used to it.

specialx

I wonder how many starter motors these cars will go through in their lives!

Steve's Sti

iTrader: (2)

could just see it now a car with flat battery, oh ill take it out a run to charge it first set of lights bang stuck lol, my new motor has it but it will be switched off as its a waste of time just making drivers even more lazy

BlkKnight

What about big diesels which prefer to run for longer periods?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Turn the aircon on and ride the clutch.

Problem sorted

A Fiat 500 clutch is only good for 30k miles anyway (if driven by a girly with inappropriate footware )

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Or a turbo after blasting it on the motorways for hundred miles and stopping at some lights at the motorway junction....Heat soak. Wonderful.

Notice the Focus diesels do this. And the turbos aren't even water cooled either

LEO-RS

With the start/stop in the Audi range, the engine will only cut out with firm brake pressure. If you are lightly holding it on the brake pedal, the engine will continue to run.

The threshold if I remember correctly is 13secs, stop for anytime less than that, it uses more fuel restarting the engine, stop for anytime longer than that, you're into fuel saving mode so if the lights have just turned red and you know you are going to be a couple of minutes, you apply firm brake pressure and the thing switches off.

I've been using it the last few years, kind of got used to it and adopted it into my driving style now.

TH3_5T1G

iTrader: (15)

Plenty, attend quite a few that these days, still within warranty that switch off at the lights and wont restart after that. It's ok if they're a manual as you just bump start and turn it off but an auto? Tow time

Nope, stop/start systems have battery management that detect the level of charge within the battery, if it doesn't meet charge level, it wont turn off. They also have AGM (Absorbent Glass Matt) batteries to aid in charging and dissipating energy at greater speeds

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

My Golf has a AGM battery...over 100amp-hours. Its a fecking huge thing....also £180 to replace.


Its not start stop either, and does 21mpg on the daily commute...I'm not sure why it has one.

TH3_5T1G

iTrader: (15)

Some have AGM batteries for other reasons. Some can be for regenerative charging systems such as brakes, as one example.

I bet it's not £180 from the main dealer though lol

TH3_5T1G

iTrader: (15)

And just to add, AGM isn't specific to stop/start or regenerative/recovery systems. Most yank tanks within the last 10 years or so seem to be fitted with AGM spiral batteries. Almost look like a six pack of beers lol

Started out as a means to have a 'safe' battery located in the cabin that wouldn't leak acid over occupants in the unfortunate even of a crash

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I think the main reason is because its in the boot...under a cover held down by 10+ torx bolts

But saying that BMWs of the same era with batteries in the boot (E60 estate, E46 estate, old X5 etc) just have normal batteries, and the e60 and e46 are very prone, being in the offside rear corner....the area most likely to take a hefty whack in a rear end collsion. MKV Golf is tucked away more inboard.

Some mercs of the same era have AGMs or VRLAs, but usually they have twin battery setups. (E-class, SL etc).




Dodge are OEM fitted with Optimas. Handy for anyone who happens to find one in a scrap yard. They don't sulphate as bad as normal batteries