pslewis

"The new performance-related pay system could result in top teachers earning up to £70,000 a year, a report by the Policy Exchange claims.

The best-performing teachers could earn higher wages within a much quicker time frame than under a time-based system, according to research.

In a paper released on Friday , the thinktank welcomes the move, which came into effect in September, but recommends the system include an evaluation based on several measures, not just test or exam scores.

Financial rewards should be based on increases in base salary, rather than through bonuses, and performance-related pay must be used as a real reward for excellence and not as a way of holding down the overall pay bill, it said.

Qualified teachers in maintained schools currently earn a minimum of £21,804, or £27,270 in inner London. Senior teachers can make up to £57,520, or £64,677 in the capital, while headteachers can expect a salary of between £42,803 and £113,303.

Under a performance-related pay system, rather than a time-based system,, teachers would be able to earn up to £70,000 a year within an estimated five to eight years compared with 12 years to reach a salary of £52,000, it says. This could attract more graduates to the profession, driving up the quality of teaching in schools.

Despite vocal objections from unions, most teachers welcome the principle behind it. A YouGov poll for the report published in September found that 89% of teachers want to be paid based on the quality of their teaching"

And they are still striking and hurting pupils education?

I would sack the 11% who are opposed to it - as these are the ones who are worried about getting 'found out' - these are the poor performers .......... the good Teachers, 89% of them, support getting paid for their efforts!

£70,000 after a few years Teaching for the best Teachers - sounds fair to me!

Let's get rid of those who argue against it, as they are the ones we don't need - and the pupils deserve more.

I recommend this motion to the house!

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

You can't just sack said 11% of teachers though, can you?

How wound you get rid of them Pete?

pslewis

I would sack them on non-performance ... as I said, these are the Teachers who are terrified of Performance Realted Pay - why?

I would also make moves to replace Heads with Industry Managers .... the truth is that Heads were Teachers and are the same 'make-up'. They never, ever, sack fellow Teachers ... it seems to be an unwritten rule.

Pay the Teachers who are left after the cull £70,000 and the Industry Managers £100,000 to lead the schools ................. sorted!

Willowsdad

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps a lot of that 11% teach in schools like my local academy. A majority of foreign nationals, who's first language isn't English. And where a lot of the pupils just don't want to learn, and prefer to fight, damage and steal. Would you want performance related pay in that situation? A great idea in theory, but not practical in every school.

pslewis

Think about it ..... surely you would want to work in a poor school so that you can ADD VALUE and lift the school?!

It would be FAR, FAR easier to gain massive performance related pay increases in a poor school than in an afluent school in a leafy suburb! In the best schools it will be hard to shine as a Teacher as most of the basics are done by the parents in attitude and a desire to attain.

In a poor school a good Teacher can deliver ENORMOUS value, and be rewarded hugely as a result.

Anyone can Teach kids who want to be taught ..... that is easy.

The tough times come from the tough schools and Teachers there earn every single penny and I take my hat off to them.

tony de wonderful

I dread to think how on earth 'performance' is actually assessed...indeed whether you can actually abstract and quantify it.

dpb

People are doing too well at school allready...

But really 70 k a year, who would bother getting out of bed in the morning .

It's the meddling governors need to be lined up against a wall.

pslewis

Performance can be measured quite easily .... Teachers complain about too much 'measuring'!

Value added, exam results, exclusions, behaviour, all are measured - I see pages and pages of data .... plenty enough for a layman to spot failures, easy therefore for the Head to reward his top performers!

Remember that each Teacher in the school has the very same pupils! Some get them to deliver and some don't ...... why?

It's the simplest thing in the world to measure and mark a Teacher - although logic would say that it's so pastoral it's difficult ..... not so!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Nope, patently untrue.

In a small school, just maybe, in a primary, over the years, maybe.

In a middle to large secondary, no chance.

And how are you going to reward those who spend their time slogging away with the, shall we say, lower achievers, instead of the high-flyers?

Because exam results won't cut it, and neither will value added.

So you'll end up with a system in which no-one wants the difficult children.


And before you suggest it...."they can all take a turn", doesn't work, trust me.

tony de wonderful

How's that then Pete?

If you reduce teaching to a technical function where it is the teacher's job to push 'facts' into kids heads....and infer their performance from the exam results then I suppose so?

hodgy0_2

ahh - "measuring" the mantra of the management consultant

we could certainly do with more of those about the place

pslewis

Well, as I said, raising the achievement of a low achiever is so obvious that the rewards will flow to that Teacher .... and rightly so.

High achievers are going to achieve, the Teacher would have to work hard to prove that their input actually had the same effect as that of the Teacher who took on the tougher kids.

I'm disturbed by the feeling that Teachers won't teach the harder kids because they may not achieve results - what an utter pathetic thought that is ..... and what worries me, the thought that Teachers just want an easier working life - without any challenge .... it does worry me hugely ..... I always thought of Teachers as those with a caring attitude rather than a greedy grab, grab, grab without wanting to give, give, give ...... puzzling.

paulr

Or maybe they don't want to teach the harder kids because they don't want to be sworn at, spat at, punched or kicked, and then there's the parents to deal with, if they turn up that is.

kevfawcett

iTrader: (7)

pslewis - I agree with parts of what you're saying, but as others have said it would be very difficult to judge how good a teacher is, in my opinion.
What would the areas that they were assessed be?

Are you some sort of teaching assessor or do I have you mixed up with somebody else?

neil-h

So you're going to penalise the teachers of high achievers 'cus the kids are bright... Seems fair.

dpb

Worse

kevfawcett

iTrader: (7)

Go on…..

pslewis

not many schools have issues like that its media hype

kevfawcett

iTrader: (7)

You should speak to my Wife, she'll confirm that 'media hype' isn't quite all hype. One of the other teachers was sworn at a couple of weeks ago and when my Wife called the parents (she's head of year for that pupil) to discuss their child's attitude the disgusting creature of a Mother actually laughed and told her teachers need to grow up

paulr

My sister is a teacher, it's not media hype. And what's worse is the parents. Discipline a child, you get an ear bashing from the.parents.

kevfawcett

iTrader: (7)

Exactly what I pointed out in the post above, I actually feel sorry for a lot of the kids being brought up the way they have been. No doubt some will still blame the teachers though

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

No...you were the one who insisted it was OK to do performance related pay.

So........if the kids won't perform...and many of them simply won't, does their teacher get any reward for all his/her hard work and heartache?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Oh bullsh1t!

pslewis

A major component of being an effective teacher is making correct classroom discipline decisions.

Teachers who cannot manage student discipline in their classroom effectively are limited in their overall effectiveness in almost every other area of teaching.

Classroom discipline in that sense may be the most critical component of being an outstanding teacher.

One measure of Performance .... there are many others.

hodgy0_2

So a "measure" would be how quiet and compliment both the classroom and children are

So a successful teacher would just sedate his students

tony de wonderful

Along with 'incentivising' probably?

pslewis

What is wrong with incentivising Teachers to deliver well educated pupils?

pslewis

What we have here is a desire to keep Teaching away from the real world. We need children to learn that hard work and performance results in great rewards ....... I wonder where they got the current belief that you could get great rewards for delivering very little?

dpb

It doesn't get great results, there's too many of them now with pointless academic achievements

kevfawcett

iTrader: (7)

The problem is not that teachers don't want to be assessed on how well they educate pupils on a particular subject, it's more about how everything else they do is judged. For example; After school classes, marking, lesson plans, meetings with parents, etc.