Fog or Bi-HID conversion on Newage
23 August 2006, 10:47 AM
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Fog or Bi-HID conversion on Newage
Hi,
What would be best to do first..
Fog to driving lamp conversion (£325 for PIAA) OR Convert Headlights to Bi-HID (£270 including all fittings)
I was thinking of the Bi-HID but then is there any point in converting the fog lights to driving lamps?
got a budget of around £400-500 to carry out conversion.
Thanks
steve
What would be best to do first..
Fog to driving lamp conversion (£325 for PIAA) OR Convert Headlights to Bi-HID (£270 including all fittings)
I was thinking of the Bi-HID but then is there any point in converting the fog lights to driving lamps?
got a budget of around £400-500 to carry out conversion.
Thanks
steve
23 August 2006, 11:27 PM
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Bug eye WRX or not? These use H4 blubs which are hard work to do HID.
Anything else new age, ie bug eye STi, MY04/05 and MY06 all use separate dip and main blubs for dip and main.
If you have the former then I'd not bother with HID H4 conversions stick with the fog to driving light conversion. If you have any of the latter then HID the two, fantastic results.
Anything else new age, ie bug eye STi, MY04/05 and MY06 all use separate dip and main blubs for dip and main.
If you have the former then I'd not bother with HID H4 conversions stick with the fog to driving light conversion. If you have any of the latter then HID the two, fantastic results.
24 August 2006, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Chelspeed
Bug eye WRX or not? These use H4 blubs which are hard work to do HID.
Anything else new age, ie bug eye STi, MY04/05 and MY06 all use separate dip and main blubs for dip and main.
If you have the former then I'd not bother with HID H4 conversions stick with the fog to driving light conversion. If you have any of the latter then HID the two, fantastic results.
Anything else new age, ie bug eye STi, MY04/05 and MY06 all use separate dip and main blubs for dip and main.
If you have the former then I'd not bother with HID H4 conversions stick with the fog to driving light conversion. If you have any of the latter then HID the two, fantastic results.
I was going to carry out the biHID H4 conversion from hids-4u.co.uk.
But the price for a HID driving lamp conversion are 500
24 August 2006, 10:33 AM
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The link is actually http://www.hids4u.co.uk/ I presume?
Can't see from the web page how they're doing an HID H4 blub. There's a number of methods:
Simplest - just have HID for the dip and don't have a main on that blub, rely on a separate main beam lamp, OK on morrette type lights, no good if you don't have a separate light like on WRX
Crude and nasty - have a HID dip and bodge on a conventional halogen main beam bulb, nasty as it's not quite in the right place for main beam so the main beam light pattern is carp.
Clever but not quite right - have a single HID and either physically move a metal shield to try and put the light in nearly the right place for dip or main, or magnetically move the HID arc so it's in nearly the right place for dip or main. Not quite right because neither quite work right for either dip or main so both a bit of a bodge.
From the description it sounds like they're doing none of these, they actually have an H4 sized HID replacement with two separate HID's one each for dip and main. If they've managed to physically do this with the two HID arcs in the right place for dip and main then great, fair play, give it a go.
But I'd be wary, there's not much room in an H4 bulb and the dip and main filaments are pretty close, about 10mm apart, so is there physically room for two HID's this close together? Put the HID arc in a different place to the H4 filament and the reflector isn't going to work right. If the dip HID arc is in the right place and main is as close as it can get then the beam pattern of dmain is going to be rubbish. If the main HID arc is in the right place then.... you get the picture.
So I think before I spent that much I'd want to have a close look at the HID blub and compare it with an H4 and I think I'd want to see pictures of both dip and main beam light spreads, not one or the other but both.
Let us know how you get on.
Can't see from the web page how they're doing an HID H4 blub. There's a number of methods:
Simplest - just have HID for the dip and don't have a main on that blub, rely on a separate main beam lamp, OK on morrette type lights, no good if you don't have a separate light like on WRX
Crude and nasty - have a HID dip and bodge on a conventional halogen main beam bulb, nasty as it's not quite in the right place for main beam so the main beam light pattern is carp.
Clever but not quite right - have a single HID and either physically move a metal shield to try and put the light in nearly the right place for dip or main, or magnetically move the HID arc so it's in nearly the right place for dip or main. Not quite right because neither quite work right for either dip or main so both a bit of a bodge.
From the description it sounds like they're doing none of these, they actually have an H4 sized HID replacement with two separate HID's one each for dip and main. If they've managed to physically do this with the two HID arcs in the right place for dip and main then great, fair play, give it a go.
But I'd be wary, there's not much room in an H4 bulb and the dip and main filaments are pretty close, about 10mm apart, so is there physically room for two HID's this close together? Put the HID arc in a different place to the H4 filament and the reflector isn't going to work right. If the dip HID arc is in the right place and main is as close as it can get then the beam pattern of dmain is going to be rubbish. If the main HID arc is in the right place then.... you get the picture.
So I think before I spent that much I'd want to have a close look at the HID blub and compare it with an H4 and I think I'd want to see pictures of both dip and main beam light spreads, not one or the other but both.
Let us know how you get on.
26 August 2006, 12:58 AM
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[QUOTE=Chelspeed]The link is actually http://www.hids4u.co.uk/ I presume?
QUOTE]
The product i was looking at was
http://www.hids4u.co.uk/product_details.asp?id=44
I would like to see the visual difference before i buy on the fly. was just wondering if anyone has tried this yet.
I also want to replace the Fogs with something a bit more usable for night driving. I have driven over 900 miles over the past 2 days London-Edingburgh-London. and half of this was at night and to be honest i found the lights useless.
As winter in now approaching i would like to get this sorted and tested before the nights draw closer. The last thing i want is a blow circuit in the middle of winter and to be stranded because i did not test them for a month in twilight first..
Steve
QUOTE]
The product i was looking at was
http://www.hids4u.co.uk/product_details.asp?id=44
I would like to see the visual difference before i buy on the fly. was just wondering if anyone has tried this yet.
I also want to replace the Fogs with something a bit more usable for night driving. I have driven over 900 miles over the past 2 days London-Edingburgh-London. and half of this was at night and to be honest i found the lights useless.
As winter in now approaching i would like to get this sorted and tested before the nights draw closer. The last thing i want is a blow circuit in the middle of winter and to be stranded because i did not test them for a month in twilight first..
Steve
28 August 2006, 05:56 PM
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Yeah that's what I was looking at but your first mail said hids-4u with a hyphen so I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same thing.
Well this is a single HID with a magnetic solenoid to pull the HID arc from dip beam to main beam locations and some shields to help prevent the light going where it shouldn't.
But check out a conventional H4 blub, the two filaments aren't just one behind the other the dip beam filament at the front is fully surrounded by a shield and the main beam filament is slightly nearer the bottom of the glass. Can he replicate this with a solenoid moved HID filament? Possibly, possible not.
But he needs to show he can and the web site only shows a picture of the dip beam light pattern. I wonder why no picture of the main beam light pattern? Make sure you get this info before parting with cash.
The fog light to main beam conversion used to be a no brainer, a company called Scoobysport did a Hella 1000FFF driving light conversion which used a HID light. It was superb. Best mod I ever did to a car. Sadly Scoobysport are no more so no longer available. You can still buy Hella 1000FFF lights but you'd need to fabricate your own brackets. There was also a Prodrive HID conversion which used similar lights but different brackets, not sure if that's still avavilable.
If I was doing it now I'd get the official Subaru fog to driving light conversion, used to be an official accessory when bug eyes were new, should still be available if you find the part number. That will give you mounting brackets, switches, wiring and stuff. Then provided it doesn't use an H2 bulb, convert it to HID with a kit from Autolamps on-line.
Well this is a single HID with a magnetic solenoid to pull the HID arc from dip beam to main beam locations and some shields to help prevent the light going where it shouldn't.
But check out a conventional H4 blub, the two filaments aren't just one behind the other the dip beam filament at the front is fully surrounded by a shield and the main beam filament is slightly nearer the bottom of the glass. Can he replicate this with a solenoid moved HID filament? Possibly, possible not.
But he needs to show he can and the web site only shows a picture of the dip beam light pattern. I wonder why no picture of the main beam light pattern? Make sure you get this info before parting with cash.
The fog light to main beam conversion used to be a no brainer, a company called Scoobysport did a Hella 1000FFF driving light conversion which used a HID light. It was superb. Best mod I ever did to a car. Sadly Scoobysport are no more so no longer available. You can still buy Hella 1000FFF lights but you'd need to fabricate your own brackets. There was also a Prodrive HID conversion which used similar lights but different brackets, not sure if that's still avavilable.
If I was doing it now I'd get the official Subaru fog to driving light conversion, used to be an official accessory when bug eyes were new, should still be available if you find the part number. That will give you mounting brackets, switches, wiring and stuff. Then provided it doesn't use an H2 bulb, convert it to HID with a kit from Autolamps on-line.
03 September 2006, 01:25 PM
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I see what you me4an about the main beam pattern.
I have just come back from holiday, and am now looking at getting a pair of Cibie Super Oscars either Spot or driving lights. with either a 100W bulb ir a 135w bulb but need to look into the wiregauge and relays needed for this.
Steve
I have just come back from holiday, and am now looking at getting a pair of Cibie Super Oscars either Spot or driving lights. with either a 100W bulb ir a 135w bulb but need to look into the wiregauge and relays needed for this.
Steve
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03 September 2006, 08:29 PM
#8
Originally Posted by stevebennett
I see what you me4an about the main beam pattern.
I have just come back from holiday, and am now looking at getting a pair of Cibie Super Oscars either Spot or driving lights. with either a 100W bulb ir a 135w bulb but need to look into the wiregauge and relays needed for this.
Steve
I have just come back from holiday, and am now looking at getting a pair of Cibie Super Oscars either Spot or driving lights. with either a 100W bulb ir a 135w bulb but need to look into the wiregauge and relays needed for this.
Steve
Wire gauge: old style: battery to relay and relay to lights and lights to earth, all at 28/010".
Mainbeam to relay and relay to earth, 14/010".
Newer style, former 28/030, latter, 16/020. Ask for thinwall cable.
Fuses:
2 x 55W bulbs, 15A
2 x 100W bulbs 20A
2 x 130W bulbs 25A
HTH, Alcazar
03 September 2006, 10:39 PM
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There are two problems with Subaru lights. They are bad on main beam and they are bad on dipped beam. Fitting driving lights will solve the main beam problem but you still have poor dipped beams.
I've been looking at the problem on my classic. So far, a set of Morette head lights has helped a lot but the fog to driving light conversion is better. I fitted the Prodrive conversion with PIAA's. The kit is slightly overpriced and you can easily make your own brackets, (Classic remember). If you want to go the driving light route, I suggest you look at Cibie SC's with HID's. The mounting kit for my classic consisted of two metal plates which replaced the standard fogs. The driving light mounted onto this. In order to do this, you need lights that will back mount, ie the mounting bolt can swing 90 deg backwards. It must still be able to adjust left/right in this position. Not all lights can do this.
The standard headlights can easily be improved. I measured 1.5 volt drop in the cars headlight wiring on mine. That's ridiculous and gives a very poor light. Fit local relays and proper sized cable and you will get more light for very little money.
John
I've been looking at the problem on my classic. So far, a set of Morette head lights has helped a lot but the fog to driving light conversion is better. I fitted the Prodrive conversion with PIAA's. The kit is slightly overpriced and you can easily make your own brackets, (Classic remember). If you want to go the driving light route, I suggest you look at Cibie SC's with HID's. The mounting kit for my classic consisted of two metal plates which replaced the standard fogs. The driving light mounted onto this. In order to do this, you need lights that will back mount, ie the mounting bolt can swing 90 deg backwards. It must still be able to adjust left/right in this position. Not all lights can do this.
The standard headlights can easily be improved. I measured 1.5 volt drop in the cars headlight wiring on mine. That's ridiculous and gives a very poor light. Fit local relays and proper sized cable and you will get more light for very little money.
John
03 September 2006, 10:50 PM
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Alcazar, i am assuming you would use the 5 point relay to have to outputs i.e. 2 for each light rather than spliting the cable into 2.
My plan was to have 2 relays the 4 point connected to the foglamp switch and then the 5 point connected through the main beam switch. switching a direct fused supply from the battery...
Just need to get under the car to work out the diameter of the lights and the fitting position. Then i will be placing my order. total cost should not work out any more than £120 all in.
My plan was to have 2 relays the 4 point connected to the foglamp switch and then the 5 point connected through the main beam switch. switching a direct fused supply from the battery...
Just need to get under the car to work out the diameter of the lights and the fitting position. Then i will be placing my order. total cost should not work out any more than £120 all in.
03 September 2006, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by John 37
There are two problems with Subaru lights. They are bad on main beam and they are bad on dipped beam. Fitting driving lights will solve the main beam problem but you still have poor dipped beams.
I've been looking at the problem on my classic. So far, a set of Morette head lights has helped a lot but the fog to driving light conversion is better. I fitted the Prodrive conversion with PIAA's. The kit is slightly overpriced and you can easily make your own brackets, (Classic remember). If you want to go the driving light route, I suggest you look at Cibie SC's with HID's. The mounting kit for my classic consisted of two metal plates which replaced the standard fogs. The driving light mounted onto this. In order to do this, you need lights that will back mount, ie the mounting bolt can swing 90 deg backwards. It must still be able to adjust left/right in this position. Not all lights can do this.
The standard headlights can easily be improved. I measured 1.5 volt drop in the cars headlight wiring on mine. That's ridiculous and gives a very poor light. Fit local relays and proper sized cable and you will get more light for very little money.
John
I've been looking at the problem on my classic. So far, a set of Morette head lights has helped a lot but the fog to driving light conversion is better. I fitted the Prodrive conversion with PIAA's. The kit is slightly overpriced and you can easily make your own brackets, (Classic remember). If you want to go the driving light route, I suggest you look at Cibie SC's with HID's. The mounting kit for my classic consisted of two metal plates which replaced the standard fogs. The driving light mounted onto this. In order to do this, you need lights that will back mount, ie the mounting bolt can swing 90 deg backwards. It must still be able to adjust left/right in this position. Not all lights can do this.
The standard headlights can easily be improved. I measured 1.5 volt drop in the cars headlight wiring on mine. That's ridiculous and gives a very poor light. Fit local relays and proper sized cable and you will get more light for very little money.
John
04 September 2006, 08:57 AM
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I've had HID's on a classic.
With reference to the HID's which utilise a solenoid to pull a shield from one position to another, this is your best bet out of all HID conversions that are out there at the moment (AFAIK).
Yes there is a noticeable improvement both in dip and main beam. My problem was that i had failures of the solenoid which meant that i couldn't get main beam when they failed. Although they were replaced, i felt that considering i rarely used main beam, the frequency of failure was poor imo.
Also bear in mind that properly designed HID's have a very "sharp" beam pattern. Fitting HID's to a lens designed for halogen, produce a "scattered" beam pattern i.e. if you place your car against, say a garage door, you won't see a nice clear sharp beam pattern. It's as if the beam pattern is out of focus.
Having said that, you will notice a worthwhile improvement in real world driving.
Is it worth it? Not if reliabilty of the units haven't improved.
Remember also, that light output is only as good as it's lens, so all you're doing is putting a brighter light onto the road, not a better beam pattern.
I now run Morrettes with HID driving lights. For dark roads, the HID's are stunning (but pricey). The downside is coming back down to dip, when you can't see where you're going!
This shows how much different HID's are to halogen lamps.
With reference to the HID's which utilise a solenoid to pull a shield from one position to another, this is your best bet out of all HID conversions that are out there at the moment (AFAIK).
Yes there is a noticeable improvement both in dip and main beam. My problem was that i had failures of the solenoid which meant that i couldn't get main beam when they failed. Although they were replaced, i felt that considering i rarely used main beam, the frequency of failure was poor imo.
Also bear in mind that properly designed HID's have a very "sharp" beam pattern. Fitting HID's to a lens designed for halogen, produce a "scattered" beam pattern i.e. if you place your car against, say a garage door, you won't see a nice clear sharp beam pattern. It's as if the beam pattern is out of focus.
Having said that, you will notice a worthwhile improvement in real world driving.
Is it worth it? Not if reliabilty of the units haven't improved.
Remember also, that light output is only as good as it's lens, so all you're doing is putting a brighter light onto the road, not a better beam pattern.
I now run Morrettes with HID driving lights. For dark roads, the HID's are stunning (but pricey). The downside is coming back down to dip, when you can't see where you're going!
This shows how much different HID's are to halogen lamps.
04 September 2006, 08:58 AM
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An additional edit in that those HID's which operate a solenoid, the beam pattern is similar to the halogen in that you have the required cut off in the right place for dip.
Oh.. and another point. If the bulb fails, then you don't have any beam whatsoever!
Oh.. and another point. If the bulb fails, then you don't have any beam whatsoever!
04 September 2006, 10:14 PM
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A duplicate reply
but
Have decided to upgrade the fog lights to PIAA 80XT pro. from waht i have seen so far have a dipped beam and a highbeam.
These are rated for a 100/130Watt H4 bulbs. the kit comes with a loom, for £250 but i will probably make my own loom for confidence and utilise the foglamp switch to allow full control so not to use them driving through built up areas and only use them when needed.
So the fog light will give control over the main power feeding the lights 2 secondary relays will be used 1 for the dipped, 1 for the high beam linked to the existing dipped and main beam switch.
this will give me a few options
normal dipped beam
normal dipped beam + Main Beam
normal dipped beam + PIAA Dipped
normal dipped beam + Main Beam + PIAA dipped + PIAA Main
I will be creating my own brackets for this but should be ok doing this.
Total cost should be around £270 for everything plus a few hours of time and should hopefull give a better system than what i have.
If anyone is interested i can create a wiring diagram and component list
Steve
but
Have decided to upgrade the fog lights to PIAA 80XT pro. from waht i have seen so far have a dipped beam and a highbeam.
These are rated for a 100/130Watt H4 bulbs. the kit comes with a loom, for £250 but i will probably make my own loom for confidence and utilise the foglamp switch to allow full control so not to use them driving through built up areas and only use them when needed.
So the fog light will give control over the main power feeding the lights 2 secondary relays will be used 1 for the dipped, 1 for the high beam linked to the existing dipped and main beam switch.
this will give me a few options
normal dipped beam
normal dipped beam + Main Beam
normal dipped beam + PIAA Dipped
normal dipped beam + Main Beam + PIAA dipped + PIAA Main
I will be creating my own brackets for this but should be ok doing this.
Total cost should be around £270 for everything plus a few hours of time and should hopefull give a better system than what i have.
If anyone is interested i can create a wiring diagram and component list
Steve
06 September 2006, 09:20 PM
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I changed my HID bulbs from the HID dipped / Halogen main to the solenoid variant and they are excellent.
They came from www.hids4u.co.uk and their pre and post sales support is first rate. I have had 3 kits off them now!!
HTH
Tony
They came from www.hids4u.co.uk and their pre and post sales support is first rate. I have had 3 kits off them now!!
HTH
Tony
07 September 2006, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tonybooth
I changed my HID bulbs from the HID dipped / Halogen main to the solenoid variant and they are excellent.
They came from www.hids4u.co.uk and their pre and post sales support is first rate. I have had 3 kits off them now!!
HTH
Tony
They came from www.hids4u.co.uk and their pre and post sales support is first rate. I have had 3 kits off them now!!
HTH
Tony
Now just investigating different options regarding the driving/spot lamp conversion.
07 September 2006, 04:13 PM
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PIAA pods
On the PIAA website (piaa.co.uk) they have some subaru pods for 80 series lamps. Anyone know if what they call corner pods are for replacing the fog lights or do they go somewhere else?
Thanks, Mike.
Thanks, Mike.
07 September 2006, 08:03 PM
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The rally cars use pods for spotlights, big pod in the middle of the bonnet for spotties and two small pods on each side for angled driving lights to see round corners early. Sounds like these are they.
If so, then no, they're not for replacing standard foglights, they stick out a lot, great on a rally car not on a road car. Looked for a picture but can't find one at the moment.
If so, then no, they're not for replacing standard foglights, they stick out a lot, great on a rally car not on a road car. Looked for a picture but can't find one at the moment.
08 September 2006, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chelspeed
The rally cars use pods for spotlights, big pod in the middle of the bonnet for spotties and two small pods on each side for angled driving lights to see round corners early. Sounds like these are they.
If so, then no, they're not for replacing standard foglights, they stick out a lot, great on a rally car not on a road car. Looked for a picture but can't find one at the moment.
If so, then no, they're not for replacing standard foglights, they stick out a lot, great on a rally car not on a road car. Looked for a picture but can't find one at the moment.
09 September 2006, 04:17 PM
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What a pain in the **** chaning the headlamp bulbs of the newage impreza. got to have been the most challenging so far that i have done.
Dipped beam have now been upgraded to PIAA +50% ones and the amin beam upgraded to 130W HB3's (with a switched/relay direct power supply from battery).
Next on the list is the fogs but just want to see what difference these make this evening. before i order the new fog lamp upgrade. i am unsure if i am going for Driving lamps or Spot laps at the moment.
Dipped beam have now been upgraded to PIAA +50% ones and the amin beam upgraded to 130W HB3's (with a switched/relay direct power supply from battery).
Next on the list is the fogs but just want to see what difference these make this evening. before i order the new fog lamp upgrade. i am unsure if i am going for Driving lamps or Spot laps at the moment.
09 September 2006, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chelspeed
The rally cars use pods for spotlights, big pod in the middle of the bonnet for spotties and two small pods on each side for angled driving lights to see round corners early. Sounds like these are they.
If so, then no, they're not for replacing standard foglights, they stick out a lot, great on a rally car not on a road car. Looked for a picture but can't find one at the moment.
If so, then no, they're not for replacing standard foglights, they stick out a lot, great on a rally car not on a road car. Looked for a picture but can't find one at the moment.
this is what hes on about
as you can see. not the most attractive looking things
definitely suitable only for rallying where function > form.
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