powerflow exhausts
11 February 2003, 07:12 PM
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I was thinking of getting a powerflow 5" blitz style slash cut backbox fitted to my 1.6 £200 fitted ,has anyone got a powerflow fitted to their car ?
11 February 2003, 10:33 PM
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I have seen quite a few 'creations' from powerflow, whether they be in Ballymena, or Newtownabbey.
Basically there is only one word to describe them...CRAP with Ballymena being the worse of the two.
From a performance point of view also ( although it wont matter to a 1.6 ) they cannot supply anything bigger than 2 1/4" pipework ( not including the tailpiece trim ) which is simply far too small for any performance car.
If its simply a backbox you are after, then you should be OK, but if it is a complete system, or perhaps manifolds then stay well clear.
Basically there is only one word to describe them...CRAP with Ballymena being the worse of the two.
From a performance point of view also ( although it wont matter to a 1.6 ) they cannot supply anything bigger than 2 1/4" pipework ( not including the tailpiece trim ) which is simply far too small for any performance car.
If its simply a backbox you are after, then you should be OK, but if it is a complete system, or perhaps manifolds then stay well clear.
11 February 2003, 11:44 PM
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Quality is none too great either.
My MY98 Impreza Turbo came with a Powerflow BB on it when I bought it, it sounded terrible. It was loud alright, but wasn't a 'nice' note. It also showed signs of corrosion which shouldn't happen with proper Stainless Steel (seeing as it was only on for less than a year) and the insides of it began to rattle and fall apart.
I've since replaced it with a Magnex BB and centre and you wouldn't believe the difference
Gavin
My MY98 Impreza Turbo came with a Powerflow BB on it when I bought it, it sounded terrible. It was loud alright, but wasn't a 'nice' note. It also showed signs of corrosion which shouldn't happen with proper Stainless Steel (seeing as it was only on for less than a year) and the insides of it began to rattle and fall apart.
I've since replaced it with a Magnex BB and centre and you wouldn't believe the difference
Gavin
12 February 2003, 12:48 PM
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Powerflow is pure crap... My mate had a gsi astra done with a complete system from Ballymena, they couldn't get it to fit onto the manifold correctly, so there were bits of weld splattered everywhere! It sounded like an ashely exhaust on a nova....spend a few more pounds and get a good make
12 February 2003, 09:59 PM
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You cant go wrong with a Magnex. They are probably the best quality aftermarket UK supplier available. Usually quite quiet compared to most other brands, and excellent value for money.
14 February 2003, 11:58 AM
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I got a back box fitted to my 1.6 in Newtownabbey over a year ago. I was a great job, well done and sounds the business. I have been complimented on many occasions on how good the car sounds, inside and out.
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14 February 2003, 07:59 PM
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Stevie Turbo you are being very harsh in one respect. Dees Exhausts (the Newtownabbey outlet) know how to build exhausts and also how to do professional stainless TIG welding . I have used them several times, including a very tricky job putting a new connecting pipe on a great jap '5 Zigen' back box. Then fitted to my Type R from a previously owned car. They are helpful and fairly priced and I would strongly recommend if you take along your own stuff.
However, I totally agree about Powerflow exhausts and would not recommend the crowd in Ballymena who have not got a clue.
Finally I dont like Magnex, although the quality is OK the sound is not. Better with Scoobysport (or Blitz if you are not fussed about hearing your CD player!)
However, I totally agree about Powerflow exhausts and would not recommend the crowd in Ballymena who have not got a clue.
Finally I dont like Magnex, although the quality is OK the sound is not. Better with Scoobysport (or Blitz if you are not fussed about hearing your CD player!)
14 February 2003, 07:59 PM
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BJC i was going to get mine done down there aswell, i called in to see dee and i liked the 5" one. what 1 have you got?
Where abouts in Belfast are you ?, is there any chance i could hear it ?
[Edited by stevey boy - 2/14/2003 8:00:54 PM]
[Edited by stevey boy - 2/14/2003 8:02:34 PM]
Where abouts in Belfast are you ?, is there any chance i could hear it ?
[Edited by stevey boy - 2/14/2003 8:00:54 PM]
[Edited by stevey boy - 2/14/2003 8:02:34 PM]
14 February 2003, 08:57 PM
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Stevey Boy - i`ve got a powerflow back box on my 98 turbo with a blitz 4.5 inch end. I had my reservations about getting a power flow as well. If I had decided on a full system i would have gone to Performance Subaru but it was Dee who put me off the idea of a full sytem cos of the hassle come MOT time. I have been complimented on the sound of mine by my Scoob dealer who heard me coming round the corner of his dealership and said it sounds really good. Not too noisy inside the car but I`m not the most popular guy in the street at 7am going to work or coming home at 3am at the weekends (especially when it has too cool off outside the house) Dee is good but dont know how well he stands over the product if it goes **** up. If you want to come over and hear mine drop me an email and we can arrange something.
14 February 2003, 09:22 PM
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Sloaner does'nt powerflow give a lifetime warrenty on the exhausts and yearly checks ?
Drumahoe would be a bit far away as i live in Belfast Thanks anyway
[Edited by stevey boy - 2/14/2003 9:23:45 PM]
Drumahoe would be a bit far away as i live in Belfast Thanks anyway
[Edited by stevey boy - 2/14/2003 9:23:45 PM]
15 February 2003, 12:24 AM
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I am not being harsh, and Dee's Exhausts is a Powerflow agent. Perhaps most of systems I seen were some of their earlier work, but they were very noisy, customers did complain, workmanship wasnt too bad, but it was in no way a match for a brand name exhaust, and although their complaints were dealt with, why should there even be complaints in the first place when the asking price for the work is so high.
From what I have seen of Ballymena, the quality of both the stainless steel pipework ( cheap grade ), the pipe bending, and the attrocious welding is a joke.
This applies to both outlets........
The systems I seen had bends where a no bends were needed, joints in places I am baffled by. The bends are not proper mandrel bends, and pipe shrinkage is very evident. The pipework itself, at a maximum of 2.25" is pathetic, and would prove restrictive on any car with the mere hint of power. Quite simply, while they may be able to make one off specials, the quality is generally not up to scratch for the prices they charge. Its as simple as that. It is a poor product, and they are asking top prices.
If it is simply a back box you are after, then it should be OK, even though again, it will prove restrictive on a performance car.
I live local to Dee's Exhaust, and have spoken to him a cpuple of times, and can say while he was quite friendly, he does not have an understanding of what is required of an exhaust on a high powered car.
And a Subaru with no exhaust would pretty much sound good. As for not getting a full system, I would reccomend you do ( from a reputable company ) as the performance difference really makes it worth it. Here in NI, our MOT is slightly different than the UK mainland, in that they dont check to see if the cat is functioning yet. They just check for CO, and HCC emissions. So, even if you have no cat, any subaru should have no problems passing, and I havent seen any I know fail an MOT yet for emissions. This situation may change in the future, but again, if you buy from a reputable company, then re-installing the CAT for MOT wont be a big job.
Powerflow are crap. I have yet to see any full systems, or anything that actually involves any work to change my opinion. They may be helpful, and friendly, but their exhausts here are still crap.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 2/15/2003 12:31:15 AM]
From what I have seen of Ballymena, the quality of both the stainless steel pipework ( cheap grade ), the pipe bending, and the attrocious welding is a joke.
This applies to both outlets........
The systems I seen had bends where a no bends were needed, joints in places I am baffled by. The bends are not proper mandrel bends, and pipe shrinkage is very evident. The pipework itself, at a maximum of 2.25" is pathetic, and would prove restrictive on any car with the mere hint of power. Quite simply, while they may be able to make one off specials, the quality is generally not up to scratch for the prices they charge. Its as simple as that. It is a poor product, and they are asking top prices.
If it is simply a back box you are after, then it should be OK, even though again, it will prove restrictive on a performance car.
I live local to Dee's Exhaust, and have spoken to him a cpuple of times, and can say while he was quite friendly, he does not have an understanding of what is required of an exhaust on a high powered car.
And a Subaru with no exhaust would pretty much sound good. As for not getting a full system, I would reccomend you do ( from a reputable company ) as the performance difference really makes it worth it. Here in NI, our MOT is slightly different than the UK mainland, in that they dont check to see if the cat is functioning yet. They just check for CO, and HCC emissions. So, even if you have no cat, any subaru should have no problems passing, and I havent seen any I know fail an MOT yet for emissions. This situation may change in the future, but again, if you buy from a reputable company, then re-installing the CAT for MOT wont be a big job.
Powerflow are crap. I have yet to see any full systems, or anything that actually involves any work to change my opinion. They may be helpful, and friendly, but their exhausts here are still crap.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 2/15/2003 12:31:15 AM]
15 February 2003, 07:22 PM
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I don't dispute that Powerflow is a poor product. I would not personally use their stuff. Nor would I use Magnex! I had a Magnex oval and took it off as I found it too quiet and too restrictive compared with my Jap 5 Zigen. It is all down to personal preferance.
However, Dee and his crew have helped me change an MRT downpipe, mid section and Jap back box off my previous Scooby. It involved a fair amount of work including cutting/TIG welding 3" (straight thru' no cat!) stainless pipework to the mid section/backbox. The work is immaculate. If you tell them what you want and bring your own parts along they do a professional job. I do not knock people/firms who have personally done a good job for me. Nor does Dee 'stick his arm in' money wise.
However, Dee and his crew have helped me change an MRT downpipe, mid section and Jap back box off my previous Scooby. It involved a fair amount of work including cutting/TIG welding 3" (straight thru' no cat!) stainless pipework to the mid section/backbox. The work is immaculate. If you tell them what you want and bring your own parts along they do a professional job. I do not knock people/firms who have personally done a good job for me. Nor does Dee 'stick his arm in' money wise.
15 February 2003, 11:36 PM
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Why did he have to cut and weld an exhaust that was previously on a Subaru, to make it fit another Subaru??? But I would agree the quality of Dees work is much better than those in Ballymena, but that wouldnt be hard.
Not sure what you mean about the Magnex being restrictive....I highly doubt ( and would say with 99% certainty )that there are any Subarus in this country that will have enough power to be restricted by the Magnex, yes they are quieter than most, but this is in my opinion a good thing. Maybe Im starting to get old, but I do prefer the subtle approach.
Not sure what you mean about the Magnex being restrictive....I highly doubt ( and would say with 99% certainty )that there are any Subarus in this country that will have enough power to be restricted by the Magnex, yes they are quieter than most, but this is in my opinion a good thing. Maybe Im starting to get old, but I do prefer the subtle approach.
16 February 2003, 09:34 AM
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Many of the Japanese companies for some strange reason, probably because they invariably 'trash them' after a few years, use mild steel pipe connections/brackets on their high grade stainless backboxes (HKS, 5 Zigen, but not Blitz). After a few years the pipework corrodes, while the box remains fine.
Fraustrating when the quality of the workmanship and sound of the box is so good. The solution is to cut away the old mild pipe and replace with 3" stainless bends at 45 degrees to get around the rear diff and (high quality and tucked well up into the body in this case) TIG welds throughout. Result unrestricted 3" stainless straight through to great sounding box.
Incidentally from memory the Magnex box that I previously had on the car did not have a 3" diameter connecting pipe. More like 2.5". Possibly I'm wrong.
Fraustrating when the quality of the workmanship and sound of the box is so good. The solution is to cut away the old mild pipe and replace with 3" stainless bends at 45 degrees to get around the rear diff and (high quality and tucked well up into the body in this case) TIG welds throughout. Result unrestricted 3" stainless straight through to great sounding box.
Incidentally from memory the Magnex box that I previously had on the car did not have a 3" diameter connecting pipe. More like 2.5". Possibly I'm wrong.
16 February 2003, 11:41 AM
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Magnex are 2.5" and they use an aluminized mild steel pipe for noise reasons. Most Stainless exhausts can have a bit of a tinny sound to them whereas mild steel doesnt. Mild Steel is a quieter steel to use becasue of this. With teh noise regulations in Japan, it must be an issue ( Which is why most Jap exhausts will come with a silencing bung for the exhaust, to allow it to pass the 'Jasma' noise test. There are also quite a few Jap exhausts, that while they may be 3" pipework, the silencer boxes could easily drop down to under 2" inside. I have seen this on many occasions and again, this is obviously to make them quieter, although at the expense of power.
The weather in Japan/USA must be a lot better here, corrosion wouldnt be as much of a problem also for the exhaust systems, again, there is more profit in using a cheaper mild steel.
Profit margins must be huge for some of the Jap spec exhausts, as while the qualtiy of the stainless sileners is generally very good, some of the rest the systems isnt, for the mega bucks they charge.
The Stainless TIG welded silencers boxes however can be a work of art.
The weather in Japan/USA must be a lot better here, corrosion wouldnt be as much of a problem also for the exhaust systems, again, there is more profit in using a cheaper mild steel.
Profit margins must be huge for some of the Jap spec exhausts, as while the qualtiy of the stainless sileners is generally very good, some of the rest the systems isnt, for the mega bucks they charge.
The Stainless TIG welded silencers boxes however can be a work of art.
16 February 2003, 09:27 PM
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Yep. Agree with all of that. Although it should be emphasised that there is a need for some back pressure in the box for the turbo to spool up to optimum. As a result most of the top spec Jap boxes reduce to 2.5 internally, as you point out, and use stainless wool baffles in varying quantity to adjust the noise. In terms of quality they are in a differant league to Magnex I'm afraid.
Finally to get back to why I jumped to the defence of Dees. One of the guys with Dee (who does the stainless TIG welding) used to work in the Dairy industry on milk storage tanks where a high degree of accuracy/narrow seam welding is essential. His work is immaculate, which is why I have gone back down there a few times with my car and I am very particular! As I said before if you know exactly what you want and have your own parts they will do a good job. It is important to give a bit of balance on this forum.
Finally to get back to why I jumped to the defence of Dees. One of the guys with Dee (who does the stainless TIG welding) used to work in the Dairy industry on milk storage tanks where a high degree of accuracy/narrow seam welding is essential. His work is immaculate, which is why I have gone back down there a few times with my car and I am very particular! As I said before if you know exactly what you want and have your own parts they will do a good job. It is important to give a bit of balance on this forum.
17 February 2003, 05:07 PM
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Stevey Boy
I work in Belfast, in Stranmillis College but will be out and about over the next few weeks. If you work in Belfast I could perhaps call past, this would perhaps be easier than you trying to come to me. I got the largest single round pipe that they had at the time, about 4" and it cost £170. With a 1.6 I was not concerned with issues related to power, I was only after a better note. I did not want to mess around trying to get another box to fit, I just left it in for a few hours and the job was done. If it deteroriates, I'll get it replaced. I had no problems with it at the MOT.
I can only access a computer at work, so if you are interested in seeing and hearing the job, I'll get your message sometime tomorrow.
I work in Belfast, in Stranmillis College but will be out and about over the next few weeks. If you work in Belfast I could perhaps call past, this would perhaps be easier than you trying to come to me. I got the largest single round pipe that they had at the time, about 4" and it cost £170. With a 1.6 I was not concerned with issues related to power, I was only after a better note. I did not want to mess around trying to get another box to fit, I just left it in for a few hours and the job was done. If it deteroriates, I'll get it replaced. I had no problems with it at the MOT.
I can only access a computer at work, so if you are interested in seeing and hearing the job, I'll get your message sometime tomorrow.
17 February 2003, 05:38 PM
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Anyone who tells you that back pressure is required for better turbo spool up, is talking rubbish. This has been discussed before on other threads on Scoobynet.
The best exhaust for a turbo car, is no exhaust, so that there is no backpressure on the exit side of the turbine. Any backpressure will decrease its efficiency.
If you say Dee's work is up to scratch, then I wont argue. As I said, it was mostly his early work I seen when he first started doing powerflow. As for Ballymena...it has been very recent work I have seen. I hope never to see such terrible workanship ever again.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 2/17/2003 5:40:15 PM]
The best exhaust for a turbo car, is no exhaust, so that there is no backpressure on the exit side of the turbine. Any backpressure will decrease its efficiency.
If you say Dee's work is up to scratch, then I wont argue. As I said, it was mostly his early work I seen when he first started doing powerflow. As for Ballymena...it has been very recent work I have seen. I hope never to see such terrible workanship ever again.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 2/17/2003 5:40:15 PM]
17 February 2003, 07:25 PM
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Stevie Turbo, that maybe the case in theory..
But in practice an exhaust like you suggest will lead to problems with boost creep at the top end, how do you suggest that is controlled.
BT
But in practice an exhaust like you suggest will lead to problems with boost creep at the top end, how do you suggest that is controlled.
BT
17 February 2003, 10:08 PM
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BJC I'm a plumber so i'll be working in different places,email me or phone me and we can meet somewhere some night early next week if thats ok ?
Last edited by stevey boy; 14 August 2016 at 09:43 AM.
18 February 2003, 01:09 AM
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A properly sized and functioning wastegate will control the boost fine. An open exhaust is not a cause for 'boost creep'...although not exactly sure what you are meaning 'boost creep' to be.
18 February 2003, 09:01 PM
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Stevie Turbo. Your absolutely right; badly put on my part. Getting exhaust gases away in volume with minimum restriction enhances power - no question. There are particular problems with 'massive' noise? and the need to remap or change the ECU, especially with Sti 5 onwards or risk engine damage but what the hell! I only came on here because you were slagging off Dees an honest and professional businessman who did a good job for me, (not talking about how good/bad Powerflow kit is here),unfairly in my view.
18 February 2003, 10:14 PM
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Noise?? A mere technicality
Obviously its not practical though.
With regards to Dees, are you now saying he is now capable of bending pipes larger than 2.25" As he was not in teh past, when I enquired. I wouldnt be using him anyway, but just curious.
Obviously its not practical though.
With regards to Dees, are you now saying he is now capable of bending pipes larger than 2.25" As he was not in teh past, when I enquired. I wouldnt be using him anyway, but just curious.
