hammy

Hi all,

Just heard some very disturbing news regarding the plan to stop Tourist Drives around the Nordschleife.

A friend told me he had read in a motorsport magazine/paper 1 or 2 weeks ago that due to new regulations (whether government or racing is unknown) that in the future the circuit will not be open to the public but will be open instead as a testing day for competition license holders only!

I don't know anymore than this, the article was most likely to be in INGEAR magazine, RAC/MSA monthly or Motoring News. If anyone keeps these, please have a look for the article as obviously want this confirmed.

My friend races but is not a Ringer as he obviously would have framed the article!

On a positive note:
Last year you could aquire an International C race license in Germany on the same day during a course for 400 euros, i don't know if that still stands or not.
If it will turn into test days, you will be able to time, film and complete full flying laps amounst other competant drivers.
The yearly death toll would surely decrease assuming no longer to be mixed with bikes.
Lap record down to 7:32 by Westfield SR3 turbo.


Anyone going out to the Ring this weekend or whenever, please ask about public days next year.

A good time to take up Religion!


Yours Praying, Stuart

davyboy

Nurburgring GMBH are clearly not thinking it will end tourist drives next year, as they have just released prices for next year.

The prices remain the same as last year.

hammy

I really do hope you're right but i don't think that means anything clearly.

Apologies, it was the radical SR3 turbo thats lapped the ring @ 7:19.

davyboy

I am right.

The tourist days are not going to stop overnight, they have been going for decades an Nurburgring GMBH have done a lot to work to increase safety in recent years.

Can you imagine the imapact on the local economy if they just cancelled tourist days, it just would not survive.

davyboy

Just found this.

Next year will see the following penalties for dissobeying the rules.

Overtaking on the right = Report to the Police, fine, 1 day track ban.

Aggresive driving, pressuring/dangering others = 1 day track ban.

Excessive speed at danger points, endangering Marshalls = 1 day track ban, repeated offenders will be banned for the season

Deliberate dirtying of the track or not reporting it to the Marshalls = 1 day track ban.

Repeated offenses against the camers ban = Season ban

Deliberate carrying on driving with a fluid leak = Season ban, payment for cleaning and track closure

Type R

I read those comments somewhere, all seem fair enough except the camera's but I suppose that is for those that hold a camera, seen it loads of times.

hammy

If the Government decides that the number of deaths and injuries at the Nordschleife during tourist drives are unacceptable then they will stop it and Nurburgring GMBH could do nothing about it.

There used to be motorbike racing there but due to the amount of fatalities it was deemed too dangerous, so they stopped it.

Nurburgring GMBH have done a lot to work to increase safety in recent years, err like what? I haven't noticed any changes and i doubt the death toll has decreased by much or maybe its gone up, so what are the figures then?

The local economy isn't just based around tourist days, actual racing itself whether at the GP, north loop or both brings in alot of people and money. Jaguar and many other car firms are now resident there, unfortunately because of this there have been fewer days left for tourist drives.

I've been trying to get my car back on the road for the last 2 1/2 years with the main intention of using it for driving to and around the ring, so i'm hardly pro-lets stop the tourist drives. If future changes mean i have to fit a roll cage then bye bye interior, I just would like to know sooner than later.

hammy

I don't know if the reason for possibly stopping tourist drives is because of the death toll, but I certainly hope that any official looking into it realises that if it was stopped, road accidents are likely to increase as at the moment why speed on the roads when you can do it in a safer environment around the Nordschleife.

Apologies if i'm talking bollox again.

hammy

I mailed Nurburgring Fascination to ask about 2004 Tourist drives, this was the reply:

Hello,

we’re sorry, but we don’t have the times opening for Tourist Drives next year.

But they don’t become testing days.


Kind Regards,

i. A. Peter Ockenfeld


I hope this is the case for next year and forever. Don't understand why there were published articles saying different, just hope they were a load of bollox.

DocJock

They did seriously consider ending Touristfahren.

The reason ?
The number of complete t0ssers spoiling it for everyone else

Illegal overtaking
Aggressive driving
Ignoring marshals
sheer number of accidents

On my last trip (Sept) the track was closed more than open.
I managed ONE lap without passing an incident
On one lap I passed 4 crashes

If people would just wind their horns in and drive within their limits everyone would have more tracktime and the Gmbh would have no reason to consider ending TF.

lordlucan

Hey DJ, remember the EVO !!!!

Best wishes


J

MRK

Whoa I hope not, I was just thinking that its about time I went back there as I was getting some withdrawal symptoms, aaarrrhhhhh

As for the NO overtaking on the Right rule. Never knew that before


If they want to stop accidents then maybe they should stop those muppet bikers going out with cars, or tape huge side mirrors on to their ickle ones, so they can see behind them.

Or open the track in intervals to bikes and cars, i.e. one hour bikes, two hours cars, and so on. Or one hour bikes, between 8am and 9am, then 9am to close for cars, LOL!!

I think the Police also know it’s the bikers that make ‘most’ of the carnage as they simply do not look in their mirrors. As they had a very nasty mutilated bike on display, on the second day of the September trip. And the rather nice Amercian/German laydee copper said that they were at the Ring for the bikers to be made aware of what can happen.


Me Lordship, do you remember that biker when we came out over the crest of the Plutzgarten two, and there was mr motorcycle muppet taking a leisurely jaunt on the racing, cough, cough driving line???? Jeeeez that was close, and the other muppet biker who still tried to turn in on us when our mighty M5 bonnet was level with his front wheel. How can you not see us?? At least the bonnet would have been a softer landing for him!!


Mrk

mutant_matt

MRK,

Your sweeping generalisations about Bikers being the problem and "Muppets" do you a disservice. I've never ridden my Bike on the Nordschleife but I have friends who do, though I think I'll stick to "Ringing" on four wheels. From the data and discussions I have been party to with the locals and people on the "Safety Committee", the problem is not mostly Bikers but in fact cars. I have been stuck behind cars and bikes not looking in their mirrors, equally.

Nurburgring Gmbh have indeed tried running split sessions this year but the results were inconclusive TBH but I believe there were more crashes in the car only session than the bike only session. But like I said, the results are inconclusive because you can't really draw a conclusion from one session. It was an experiment which I think they are going to try again next year.

The other difficulty is that as long as the Nordschleife can maintain public road status, the Touristfahren can continue and because of this, it is almost impossible to dictate what kind of traffic is allowed on it.

As for what safety measures, this year Nurburgring Gmbh increased the number of marshals, introduced mobile marshals, both in cars and on bikes, introduced the safety leaflet in many languages (which MRK, it sounds like you should familiarise yourself with ), introduced said rules on a prominent sign in the car park, introduced the Yellow and Red lights at Breidcheid and have resurfaced some of the more bumpy and "dangerous" sections.

For next year they have as Davyboy said, introduced some more rules designed to encourage people to drive more safely, are introducing more marshals, are going to have some "stealth" marshals, are installing more lights and are resurfacing more of the more slippery parts of the track.

The accident rate doubled from 2001 to 2002 and the figures for this season are the same as 2002, even after some improved safety measures, so you could argue that the figures would have been even worse this year if they hadn't improved things. I sincerely hope that 2004 is a better year or Touristfahren is in serious danger of being closed. The Locals don't overwhelming support it despite what many people may think, and would be glad to see it go, despite the reduction in revenue brought to the region. Without Touristfahren, there is still a lot of revenue brought to the region by the many Motor sports events held there.

Matt.

lordlucan

Mrk - Yes that bike ! That biker was sooo lucky the M5 had APs I think. One minute he saw us and moved over the next he came right into our path.
If only they would use their mirrors and be more observant for quicker vehicles. The amount of bikes that cut the front of our car on certain parts of the track was unbelieveable this year, some no more than 2 inches from the car.

Why cant they run slots for Bikes only.

Type R

Id like to explain to the biker, who scratched my front bumper on my 1st visit, he was so lucky he didnt end up under my car, **** wit.

The bikers are shockingly bad at either pulling over to let you pass or dahn right dangerous movements.

Admittedly seen some poor driving from the cars too, but I have more problems with the bikers.

DocJock

I agree the bikes can be annoying in the sense they can hold you up then scoot off down the straights, but.........

IME generally it is the car drivers who are the nobbers.