Granby

iTrader: (5)

Is it possible to fit either a 3 or 4 point harness to my 2004 WRX with standard seats while still retaining the standard seatbelt setup, i've already got a CG-Lock which is OK but for everyday driving i'd be using the standard seatbelt but when i want to do a track day or some spirited driving then i would use the harness, can this be done or is it one or the other

Also if anyone has any pics of their harness setup that would be most helpful

Cheers
Ian

Rice Rocket

iTrader: (23)

I've got the 3inch Takata harnesses on my fronts with the standard WRX bugeye 'bucket seat' with the standard seatbelts too for everyday driving.

got the harnesses o bolted onto the rear seatbelt anchor holes so that they cross over behind the seats.

Only thing I don't have is the 6 pt part fitted to the front of the seats as i've not looked for smaller 'O' blots yet.

HTHs

S!

Granby

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Stalked! would you have any pics of this setup

Rice Rocket

iTrader: (23)

I'll see if I can get some later/tomorrow

S!

clivew

I've got a Schroth Trackday harness from GPR. It's fitted at the rear to the existing rear seatbelt mounts, and has an additional fixing to the driver's side seatbelt mount. During normal daily use, when I use the lap & diagonal, it just sits on the rear seats. For trackdays, the shoulder straps are fed through to the front and clip into the existing fixing on the left of the drver's seat and into the additional bracket on the right. (Sounds complicated but is very simple!!). IIRC it cost just over £100. Unfortunately, it is not on GPR's website but is in their catalogue.

Granby

iTrader: (5)

Yeah i've seen them in the GPR catalogue and was wondering if they are any good although it's does say for the Subaru fitment "only for use with approved aftermarket seats" do you have standard seats and also would you have some pics of this please

clivew

I saw the point about after-market seats too, but just ignored it!! They work fine as a trackday fitment, although when driving, I find I don't get thrown around that much anyway (probably because I'm slow!!) - it's just a little added security in the event of a mishap. Mine is a standard 2002 Sti Bugeye - don't know what difference there is between the WRX and Sti seats.

I could post pictures.........if only I knew how!! I'd be happy to e-mail some to you if you wish - that I can cope with!

F1 CJE UK

iTrader: (8)

In a crash is there not a danger that the seat will just fold in on you with the stress of harnesses. I am going for a harnesses bar, seats and harnesses in my 06 wrx.....

Dspeed

I would never fit harnesses to a seat on designed to have them. Dont know much about the addition of a harness bar tho.
My opinion comes from conversations beween, john cooper works and sparco with relation to the mini cooper s seats. There advice was dont.

bloomydj

iTrader: (1)

bit of an old thread now but im looking at some clip in harnesses, i no where to put the shoulder straps just unsure about the lap straps, any ideas?
i wouldnt be to keen on a harness bar because the thought of crashing with someone in the back wouldnt be nice.

360ste

iTrader: (1)

Just one point to consider!! When using a harness on the standard front seat, you change the loadings on the seat from the manufacteurs design. Thus making the seat back pivot point the weak point due to it not being designed for that direction of loading. This will actually make the situation more dangerous with a harness than just a normal seatbelt. When I read about this I also read about the CG-lock so removed both harness and ordered one CG-lock once fitted I found it give the same lower body hold as a harness but without the hassle so withtin a month I had a second one on order and fitted.

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

so harnesses on stock sti seats is a big no no? Or just scaremonger as is often the case on the interweb?

scoobymad555

iTrader: (1)

Been doing a lot of homework on harnesses lately and came to the conclusion that the crux of it is : harnesses are for race-cars built to be race-cars.

They'll offer you certain benefits in a normal road car such as keeping you in-place in your seat under hard cornering etc but the risk trade off is too high IMO.

The scaremongering does have facts and figures behind it which do add up and make sense when you look at them properly but the basics of it are, most seats unless specifically designed for use with harness don't have the required strength in the right places which means there's a high chance they'll crumple like a beer can if they're actually tested and, a harness by it's nature doesn't allow you to move in the seat should the unfortunate happen which means without the addition of a roll cage, if your car does go on its roof then your head becomes the rollcage substitute which sounds like a cr*p game to me.

That said, there's plenty of guys out there in varied different cars that run with them quite happily - even my brother has a set in his 200sx although saying that, he has at least got a bride seat in it too but he doesn't have a cage. His argument is that he's more likely to skid/slide (it has been modded to drift-spec) than flip though so he's willing to take the chance ..... nearly every bad scooby crash i've seen has ended up on it's roof though so personally I decided not to do it until I could do a proper cage aswell.

Just my opinion though so fair play to you if you do decide to do it - they do look the dogs danglies!

p.s. If I were gonna fit some without a cage then I'd most likely go down the harness bar route since in theory it'd put a lower stress load on the seat back if tested in anger given its physical location. It is a risk for your passengers but, epic amounts of padding can reduce that risk plus they're seatbelts should stop them from contacting with it anyway. Oh and to be a little morbid about it, if you were to end up in a situation that they were at risk of contacting with it then frankly i'd expect that to be the least of their worries anyway

fmp

iTrader: (7)

i was always under the impression that a harness on a standard reclining seat puts too much force on the seat upright in an accident, which can cause it to fail and basically snap the mechanism, allowing the seat to fall backwards.

Soy ou are then left in an almost laying down flat position, not held in, whilst the car flips/rolls/hits hard objects.

Leaving you like a torpedo!

Hence a harness bar can support the rear of the seat if it does fail, holding you more upright, and hopefully keepung a fair amount of tension on the harnesses.

For me, i would never run harnesses in a car that a)doesnt have bucket seats, and b) doesnt have a dedicated harness bar attached to the roll cage. And seeing as i have been there done that, a full on caged/bucket seated car as a dedicated track toy only for me these days!

Green_Goblin

I will say one thing........I had a crash in my first scoob with harnesses fitted to standard seats and i think i would have been fecked without them as i rolled it and it was a bad crash!! I walked out of the car with only cuts to my hands.....the harness worked perfect!!!
And now i have them in my current scoob!!
Recommended!!

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

hmm yes i suppose theory is different to practise in certain applications.

The reason im after harnessse is i was in a crash on track as a passenger and harnesses would have massivly reduced my movement if they were fitted. However it would have my extra strain on my neck.

So really its dependant on the seats. Do we know from subaru if these classic STI seats are designed to take harnesses? They have the hole for them right but is that just cosmetic?

Car is not currently caged, and i understand your point, as its a concern i share.

Do you have any links to this information that i could read?

scoobymad555

iTrader: (1)

Lost most of the links I read through so I don't have any on seat safety but there's 3 I had bookmarked on the harnesses which are .....

The FIA Regulations (skip through to page 41 for the english)

A wiki page (a guy selling tuning parts for lotus owners put this up about harnesses)

SFI Foundation seatbelt documentation (sourced from the sparco-usa site - particularly informative)

I forget which one it is (think it's the lotus wiki one) but one of them goes into details regarding the lap part of the belts too which should pass through the sides of the seat rather than over it. I also read several forum threads regarding the use of seats and harnesses (nothing manufacturer stated though) and nearly all of them go into detail regarding the issues of 4 point harnesses and "submarining" whereby from certain angles of impact, even in a 3 or 4 point harness your body is able to slide down the seat and into the footwell. This is also made worse by not wearing the harness tight enough. It's also what the lotus wiki page is partially referring to I guess since the lap belt passed over the seat would also allow that travel.

My conclusion was that since the seats I have in my scooby don't have slots in the side bolsters of the seat base to pass the lap belts through and there's definitely not one at the front for a 5th point then the seat probably wasn't up to the mark for use with a harness style belt. That said, I did find one harness that looked like it might be ok for dealing with the submarining effect made by schroth (details HERE) but it's designed and marketed for the usa so I don't know if it's ok to use in the uk or not plus, it still doesn't deal with whether the actual seat itself is able to cope with the different stresses applied from an accident when wearing a harness (that and it sounds like a rude word! ). The two biggest concerns there are 1) Is the back strong enough not to break in half and 2) Is the reclining mechanism strong enough not to give out. The only definitive answer would be from Subaru really .... my guess is that the slots in the top of our seats are mostly cosmetic though.

Anyways, hope that helps

dunx

iTrader: (3)

The seats are designed and engineered to withstand a crash, IMHO your body will fail at about the same time as the seat.

For the pivot to fail you would have to have a massive rear-ward impact, of sufficient force to render you unconscious and to destroy the car.
Yes, I do speak from personal experience..... my seat back pivot held, but the seat back itself yielded progressively to help minimise any injury.

My std. belt also held me in place whilst skating upside down across the Queen's highway

My belief is that a proper harness is a good thing, especially if you do track your road car, as I do.

All IMHO.

dunx

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Guys.

I think i will go for one.

Cheers

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Sorry. but can most harness be fitted at the same time as the normal 3 point for road use?

Granby

iTrader: (5)

Yes you can, i have a 4 point clip in harness which i use for track days and the standard seatbelt setup for normal use