zappa

Good afternoon

Coming up to 10,000 mile service on STI and thinking about PPP.

Should I a) inform insurer (Direct Line) and pay increased premium or b) look for new insurer post PPP?

Thank you

ThrustSSC

Impossible for us to say - everyone's experience will differ. You need to compare quotes (try L&V as a new possible insurer) and make the choice for yourself.

davedipster

Try subaru insure, the best for me by a long long way. They also know exactly what the PPP is.

Dipster

GREGGYG

iTrader: (2)

PPP and non-PPP cars are both group 20 insurance. What angers me most is the pure, evident lack of knowledge insurance companies have about cars. Some of them view PPP as a type of car, rather than a modification. I suggest calling a few companies and saying you have a 'Subaru Impreza Prodrive'. Once you state that, then technically you do not have a 'modified' car. As I said, many insurance companies view PPP as a manufacturers extra as opposed to an outright aftermarket modification!

I was going to buy an STi PPP 03, and got a quote, instead I bought a non PPP STi, and when I asked for a discount, I was told 'they are both group 20 cars, so there would be no discount' Good luck!

pin777

my insurance went up by £750 wen i had the ppp (tesco)

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Personally I'd try and ask your existing insurance to upgrade you Policy and get a written Quote or Footnote on thier Computor agreeing to the said Changes

Peeps have had numpties 'salesmen' agree to it on the Phone, had it fitted and the Company Underwritters then says "No Mods"

L&V were brill but I still wanted PPP written on the Policy, not just on computor Charged my £16:80p extra for the privilage but I was well happy

IIRC

I totally agree should be classed as an Optional extra

Tony

PS undeclared Mods means NO INSURANCE cover, so be carefull IMHO

zappa

Thanks guys.

When I put a WR sport back box on my previous WRX it cost me a further £140 in insurance premiums, so PPP on STI looks scary!

I think I will try the "STI Prodrive" line and see what happens

Thanks again

corradoboy

That's outragious Mine went up by £100 (Privilege) and is listed on the policy as "Chip, exhaust and engine modifications increasing power by upto 20%".

pin777

insurance was £1049

with ppp= £1789


some quotes were over £2500


others would not quote

mpr

Be careful with the STI Prodrive line as some of em will think its the bug-eye STI Prodrive Style (ie still 265bhp but with the body kit) - end result is you still wont be insured. I know they should know that if you're insuring an 04 car etc that it wouldn't be a bug-eye - but as previously said - most of em know **** about cars.

All this PPP stuff is simple to sort out - just buy a WR1 - then your car is standard ;-)

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

mpr is correct: to most insurance companies "STi Prodrive" means with a Prodrive style pack (no extra power) and NOT the PPP. You actually need to say PPP. Or explain the exact power increase.

And note too: LV will now probably NOT insure it. They'll insure it if the kit was fitted before the first owner took delivery, but not if it was installed at any point after that. That is as of February this year. Of course they may have changed since then...


M

zappa

WHAT!!! Are you seriously telling me that because I waited 9 months (to get used to 260 bhp first) I will suffer punitive treatment by the insurers? Here we are driving cars that cost less than a mid range Audi and paying Porsche premiums fother muckers!!!

What is the point of deadlocks, alarm, immobiliser, tracker. Can't help thinking we are made to walk around with our ***** hanging out so insurance companies can give us one up the norris every 12 months!!

My mate has just bought a Boxster S and is paying alot less, Knuts!!

Neils wrx

Looked a very nice WRX PPP a few months back, rang the insurance company, and after brief chat I opted to buy a WRX minus the PPP.....

mpr

Your mate's Boxster is fairly cheap to insure because a) its standard. b) most boxster owners won't/can't drive the nuts off it and so are unlikely to have a crash.

People who buy ugly jap turbo's do it for the performance and have every intention of using it (I know I do), hence the risk of claims.

As soon as you "modify" your car, the insurance company will nail you, simply because they are now on unfamiliar territory. They can't be expected to assess the increased risk of every possible modification, so they hammer you just to be on the safe side. Plus, the sort of person who will modify their car, will most likely be trying to extract the maximum performance possible (or else why do it?) and so are probably more likely to have accidents.

So, buy the fastest "standard" car you can afford and your insurance will be less of a hassle. Did I mention the insurance on the WR1 is no more than an STI?

Joggerboy

I made the mistake of getting the PPP fitted and then telling my insurance company. They replied "No thanks, Bye!"



Spent the next three hours ringing round to get a quote! £850 was best from Egg but with a £750 Excess!!! The Scoobs worth it!

mightyyid

Porsche premiums - I wish. Went from a £36,000 Porsche 993 when the wee one came along and my Porsche was fully comp for £600. Same circumstances with a WRX (with L&V so now have PPP but they did not charge me any more) so I went (knowing that after buying my MY05 I would fit PPP) with the insurer that would cover PPP for less. I now pay £800'ish.

So a car that is more desirable (the 993), nearly twice the price and more expensive in most areas cost me a lot less to insure.

Ridiculous state of affairs...

forest172

It`s crazy I had a MY03 STI standard 265bhp, wanted PPP but insurance would have gone from £1150 to £1650.

So instead I bought a MRFQ320 with a 340 upgrade (a chip with less than 10% upgrade in BHP Admiral are happy with that) insurance £932.00 result! It also works out £50 cheaper than having a MRFQ340?????

Jiggerypokery

Please don't !! You may as well put your money down the drain because you WILL NOT BE INSURED!
As others have said, the STi Prodrive was a special edition with body styling. The PPP will NOT appear on ANY insurance company's list of standard cars because it is a modification. Best to find a mod-friendly company anyway, you will want to make further modifications in the future - despite what you might think now
Once the modding bug bites...

davedipster

Dam insurance companies.
I fitted a dipol deadlock to my 03stippp and guess what, they want more money for the ppp but don't care that I've fitted a £200 gearbox deadlock that has never been defeated in the field!

AArrrgggg

Dipster

anc-sti

I'll second that Sti Prodrive doesn't mean PPP, tread carefully because if thats what your car is specified as on the doc's and its actually ppp'ed if you have a accident you'll be fooked when its assessed. Potentually could get done for driving with out insurance as the law is getting tougher on dodgy insurance.

zappa

I am not the most revolutionary, even at the best of times, but the fact that insurance companies are allowed to sell their product without actually knowing their market is tantamount to fraud or negligence at the very least. Every year we pay unregulated premiums, often with large excesses and regardless of how diligent we drive you can guarantee the premium will increase the following year. This practice is a dis-incentive to drive well, we might as well all have fun and sod the consequences (financial that is). Would any of you advocate a cohesive effort to contact both Subaru UK and the insurance ombudsman to see if the matter can be clarified (hopefully favourably) or should I go back to swearing at the missus and kicking the cat?

MTR

I'v posted these letters in the 'Insurance section' as well.
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...91#post4442791

Mr S. Burton,
Subaru UK Ltd.
Ryder Street
West Bromwhich,
West Midlands,
B70 0EJ
1/05/04

Dear Mr Burton,
I purchased my first Subaru Impreza Turbo in October 1997, (a MY98) and have subsequently purchased a MY99, MY00 and my current MY02 WRX STi Type UK, Prodrive Style with Prodrive Performance Pack.
I have been extremely please with the ownership of my Imprezas and the driving pleasure they have given me, so much so that I am contemplating purchasing car number five. An Impreza Turbo WRX STi type UK MY04 with Prodrive Performance Pack.

The only potential drawback is the insurance aspect of attempting to insure an STI with the PPP kit fitted. (PPP = Prodrive Performance Pack).

I would like to point out that I am 45 years old, work in the aerospace industry as a senior manufacturing engineer, and have a clean driving licence with no insurance claims for 25 years, and my car is kept in an alarmed garage.
However even with all these positive elements, the vast majority of insurance companies do not quote on the WRX STi Type UK, unless it is standard.
The moment the PPP kit is mentioned, they have no idea what it comprises of, who fits it (the Subaru dealer) and as a consequence will not insure the car.

It is with some surprise I found that if I try and insure myself on a Impreza WR1 (which is in essence a modified/uprated STi with PPP, springs, driving lights, wheels & DCCD fitted) I have no problem, due to the vehicle in its final form i.e. with its modifications already fitted, being listed with the insurance industry.

Subaru UK (IM) have deemed it prudent to have the Impreza WR1, a vehicle with a limited production run of 1000 units, registered with the UK insurance industry, and therefore enabled prospective owners to easily get insurance cover.
I am surprised and a little disappointed that given the potential volume of sales for PPP’d equipped Impreza STi’s and of course WRX’s, which are not constrained to a limited production run, the same notification to the insurance industry has not been carried out.

I am quite positive that if this was the case then Subaru UK, the dealer network and Prodrive would be able to capture a greater share of the lucrative tuning market cash flow.
As the situation currently stands the only incentive to buy the PPP kit as opposed to potentially cheaper, and in my opinion technically inferior aftermarket products, is the manufactures warranty is upheld with the PPP.
Whatever tuning option is pursued, the insurance industry don’t like it, and will quote accordingly.

I feel that Subaru UK, their dealer network, and Prodrive are missing out on substantially increased sales and profit of PPP kits circa £1600 for WRX, £2000 for STi’s caused simply on the inability of a large section of your customer base being unable to get insurance at a reasonable cost.
As a marketing exercise getting the PPP specced cars listed with the insurance industry, as they are already shown in the Subaru literature in the dealers showrooms, would tempt far more buyers to actually buy the cars with PPP fitted in the first place.

In my opinion the standard STi type UK is an abysmal car to drive until PPP is fitted, then it is an absolute joy. With PPP It is possible to drive very sedately, without the all or nothing power delivery of the original car.
I understand about why the car is imported in this form to comply with EEC emission regulations, but prospective buyers are probably put off by its mannerisms as standard, and the insurance problems when modified.
Hence no sale.
They probably go and buy a standard BMW.

I apologise for my rather long winded letter, but feel that this really is an opportunity to create a Win-Win situation, for you (Subaru UK) the dealer network and Prodrive with increased turnover in cars and PPP kits fitted to existing cars sold, and the lessened problems associated by owners like myself in insuring their cars.

Every opportunity to reduce the negative aspects of ownership for your customers can only help in building a stronger and more loyal customer base.
And more importantly for you, increase profits.
I’m sure you would agree, that is a good thing..

Yours Faithfully
Mr *****

************************************************** ****

I followed that letter up with a second letter the next day.

Mr S. Burton, Subaru UK Ltd.
Ryder Street,
West Bromwhich
West Midlands,
B70 0EJ

2/05/04

Dear Mr Burton,
Further to my letter of the 1/5/04 regarding getting the Prodrive Performance Pack (PPP kit) specced WRX STi Type UK’s and the WRX’s listed with the insurance industry as standard cars, the same as happened with the STi WR1.

I have read recently about Subaru’s intention to fit ‘black box recorders’ for want of a better description to their vehicles to try and combat the growing trend of owners to illegally (with regards manufactures warranty) modify their cars with aftermarket products, and then make fraudulent claims for repairs when failures occur.

If Subaru registered the PPP specced cars with the insurance industry allowing them to be insured as standard i.e. as produced by the manufacturer (in this case Subaru + Prodrive) then the temptation for owners to modify their cars with aftermarket products, which the insurance companies will increase premiums for, will be reduced.

Faced with the option of PPP kit = full warranty + no loading on your insurance premium, + no fraudulent claims against Subaru UK. (Hopefully no claims at all, as the vehicle is built to a defined standard which should be safe)

Versus,

Modify car yourself with aftermarket kit = no legal warranty, (but fraudulent claims anyway which Subaru UK end up paying for), + increased premiums for driving a modified car.

Then the PPP option is better for the customer and perhaps more importantly to you, potentially better for Subaru UK, especially the warranty claims division.

Everybody within the industry recognises that people can and do modify their cars, and then simply remove the ‘kit’ prior to wheeling the car top the dealers for it to be repaired. Hence the speculation regarding the ‘black boxes’.

By making aftermarket tuning financially less attractive to the customer due to increased insurance premiums, compared to the Subaru approved, fitted and warranted PPP kit, you could potentially eliminate the aftermarket tuning and warranty repair problem faced by Subaru UK.

Yours Faithfully
Mr ******


************************************************** ********
This is his reply.

6 May 2004

Dear Mr ***

Thank you for your recent letters and I really do appreciate you taking the trouble of writing to me and outlining your thoughts. I agree with most of the points you make.

It is equally frustrating for us endeavouring to educate the insurance industry on the merits of the PPP's we market in association with Prodrive. We understand the dilemmas our customers face when they attempt to explain the situation with their insures. For that reason we decided two years ago to appoint Schofield Insurance as our officially appointed 'Subaru Insured' broker due to the fact that they understand our vehicles and communicate effectively with the main head insures. I recommend that you speak to Tom Butler at Schofield Insurance when you next require insurance as he is an STi owner and understands the value of PPP's. His telephone number is 0113 250 0377.

Yours sincerely
Sam Burton
Managing Director

************************************************** *****
also wrote to Simon Lines and Mike Wood at Prodrive at the same time.

Mike,
Did Simon Lines pass on my comments about getting the STi PPP classified with the insurance companies to enable easier insurance cover, & possibly increase PPP sales?
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthre...t=318699&page=2
Its becoming somewhat repetative on Scoobynet where I have to defend the PPP against other aftermarket products.
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthre...75&page=1&pp=20
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthre...t=321382&page=2
I'm positive if the PPP equipped cars were easier to insure, as they would be classified as std like the WR1, then sales could increase, and you wouldn't see as many people opting for the aftermarket, part time builders/car tuning company route. It seems ludicrous to me that there are so many people spending money with companies with little if any geniune expertise. I'm sure Subaru Uk and Prodrives market share could be increased with the right strategy.

Cheers
MTR

************************************************** ********
So unless they have a change of heart and get the STI and WRX PPP specced cars listed with the ABI we will always be paying to insure 'modified' cars.

Cheers
MTR

budgie55

great letters there MTR much appreciated posting them up for us... I have only just got my 05 Type UK STi and am still putting the miles on the clock... I may decide to go the PPP route at some point and the above will come in handy. Not that it will make getting insurance any easier mind but at least I have a fighting chance now.

Cheers

Allan

zappa

Good work MTR all my points dealt with very eloquently. Out of interest is your scooby a) PPP'd and b) Insured with Schofield. If so how competative are the premiums?

Thanks

DBY

My experiences of the insurance insurance industry is they are totally clueless when it comes to these cars. Last year my WRX 03 was involved in an accident that required having a new front bumper, fog lamp covers, corner splitters, side skirts ordered for it.
So I thought to myself wounder if I get the parts man at the body shop to order STI items as above "yes no problem mate no skin off my nose" parts duly fitted to the vehicle all signed off by the loss essor, who was oblivious to the differences between a WRX & STI. My car was fitted from new with PPP and my insurance company was informed of this modification before I took delivery and I paid extra premium for this.

John

MTR

Zappa,

Is my still my current car. I didn't swap to the MY04 due to job uncertainty.

No I am not insured with Subaru Insured (Schofields), and I swap every year, and struggle every year!!!
I may give them a ring this year.

Cheers
MTR

MattW

With the greated respect to Rum and his colleagues at Schofields, in the time I owned Imprezas they were never the most cost effective option as far as insurance was concerned. Granted, they have many happy customers but as you well know Insurers target particular markets so whoever is cheapest for a 20 year old high performance driver is not necessarily the cheapest on the same car for a middle aged driver.

I do sympathise with you, I feel Subaru\IM could do so much more, after all they manage to do it with the WR1 and Mitsubishi do it with their various Evo flavours. The number of threads on here stating "my insurance has been cancelled now i have PPP" is testament to the potential help that could be given.

MTR

I have created this edited version of my two letters I sent to Sam Burton the then managing director of Subaru UK. The new MD is Mr Peter Kinnaird.
Perhaps if everyone who owns a PPP'd specced WRX or STi Impreza copied and pasted this letter, and sent a copy to Prodrive and Subaru UK they might take some notice?

Prodrives address is:

Prodrive
Banbury
Oxfordshire
OX16 3ER
England


Mr Peter Kinnaird
Subaru UK Ltd.
Ryder Street
West Bromwhich,
West Midlands,
B70 0EJ

Dear Mr Kinnaird,
I have been extremely please with the ownership of my (type model type) PPP, and the driving pleasure it has given me.
The only potential drawback is the insurance aspect of attempting to insure an (type model type) with the PPP kit fitted. (PPP = Prodrive Performance Pack).

I would like to point out that I am (type age )years old, and have a clean driving licence (delet if not applicable) with (type number of years) number of years no claims bonus.
However even with all these positive elements, the vast majority of insurance companies do not quote on the WRX or WRX STi Type UK, unless it is standard.
The moment the PPP kit is mentioned, they have no idea what it comprises of, or that its fitted by the Subaru dealer, and as a consequence will not insure the car.

It is with some surprise I found that if I try and insure myself on a Impreza WR1 (which is in essence a modified/uprated STi with PPP, springs, driving lights, wheels & DCCD fitted) I have no problem, due to the vehicle in its final form i.e. with its modifications already fitted, being listed with the insurance industry.

Subaru UK (IM) have deemed it prudent to have the Impreza WR1, a vehicle with a limited production run of 500 units, registered with the UK insurance industry, and therefore enabled prospective owners to easily get insurance cover, just as Mitsibushi have done with their EVO FQ300/320/340/400 models.

I am surprised and a little disappointed that given the potential volume of sales for PPP’d equipped Impreza STi’s and of course WRX’s, which are not constrained to a limited production run, the same notification to the insurance industry has not been carried out.

I am quite positive that if this was the case then Subaru UK, the dealer network and Prodrive would be able to capture a greater share of the lucrative tuning market cash flow.
As the situation currently stands the only incentive to buy the PPP kit as opposed to potentially cheaper, and in my opinion technically inferior aftermarket products, is the manufactures warranty is upheld with the PPP.
Whatever tuning option is pursued, the insurance industry don’t like it, and will quote accordingly.

I feel that Subaru UK, their dealer network, and Prodrive are missing out on substantially increased sales and profit of PPP kits circa £1600 for WRX, £2000 for STi’s caused simply on the inability of a large section of your customer base being unable to get insurance at a reasonable cost.
As a marketing exercise getting the PPP specced cars listed with the insurance industry, as they are already shown in the Subaru literature in the dealers showrooms, would tempt far more buyers to actually buy the cars with PPP fitted in the first place, and not perhaps be tempted by one of the far cheaper to insure EVO models.

I feel that this really is an opportunity to create a Win-Win situation, for you (Subaru UK) the dealer network and Prodrive with increased turnover in cars and PPP kits fitted to existing cars sold, and the lessened problems associated by owners like myself in insuring their cars.

Every opportunity to reduce the negative aspects of ownership for your customers can only help in building a stronger and more loyal customer base.
And more importantly for you, increase profits.
I’m sure you would agree, that is a good thing.

Additionally this would have the added bonus of making aftermarket tuning financially less attractive to the customer due to increased insurance premiums, compared to the Subaru approved, fitted and warranted PPP kit, you could potentially eliminate the aftermarket tuning and warranty repair problem faced by Subaru UK.


Yours Faithfully
(insert name)


Cheers
MTR

zappa

That's what I am talking about...Power to the people! Although I fully understand an approach to the manufacturers they are, like us still at the whim of the insurance industry.

Has anybody contacted the insurance ombudsman? Recent changes to legislation means that general insurance brokers are regulated by the Financial Services Authority and from experience they are keen to regulate everything.

Before I make an approach I would like a straw pole to gauge Subaru owners views?

Let me know...

MTR

Zappa,
If Subaru get the PPP specced WRX and WRX STi's registerd with the insurance industry the same way as they did with the P1 (a modified Jap spec STi 5) and the WR1 (a modified STi MY04), then we would be insuring a STANDARD car NOT a MODIFIED one.

Its a bloody farce, but if they hadn't done it with the P1 and WR1, then the prospective customers would without doubt have had one heck of a job getting insurance on 'heavily modified' versions of the cars they were originally based on.
ECU, wheels, tyres, exhausts, suspension, gearing (on the P1), spotlights etc
all on top of the base vehicle spec.
How many insurance companies would have declined to quote?

As MattW has pointed out above, Mistibushi have done the same fiddle on the FQ series of EVO's so you can get insurance on a standard unmodified car, when really its a modified version of a 276bhp EVO 8.

The P1 and WR1 had to be registered and insured with the new owner before the various mods could be carried out.
In the eyes of the DOT both cars became secondhand before the mods were carried out, and in that way it allows the UK based distributors (Subaru UK or Mitsibushi via Ralliart) to sell on a vehicle that would not pass the emission and noise regs for a new car, but are acceptable for a second hand one.

The customers are happy, the insurance company appear happy, everyones a winner.

So why won't Subaru UK and Prodrive get their finger out and help support the people spending large sums of money buying their most expensive, specced up cars.

I was always led to believe the Escort Cosworth was difficulT to insure and so sold in very low numbers, even as great as it was.

If Subaru UK and Prodrive don't watch out they may find that us much as everyone (except the insurance industry) loves their cars, they might have to give the dam things away before anyone wiill take on the nightmare it is to insure one each year, re cost and availability.

This subject is one that become very close to ALL PPP specced Impreza owners hearts, but unfortuately only once a year.
Then they post up on Scoobynet, HELP I CAN'T INSURE MY CAR, WHAT SHALL I DO?

I also wrote to Simon Lines and Mike Wood at Prodrive last year at the same time I wrote to Sam Burton, for what good it did.

PS my new letters went in the post this morning.

SUBARU UK & PRODRIVE HELP YOUR CUSTOMERS, BEFORE THEY BECOME EX CUSTOMERS

Cheers
MTR