chiark

Allegedly I wasn't recommending RF stuff, allegedly. I even say that I'd like a new amp. You tart (in my humble opinion, allegedly).

And of course Phoenix wouldn't cobble the amp that you took apart, allegedly.

Gavin, is this helping at all?

[Edited by chiark - 11/6/2001 3:45:11 PM]

Gavin G

I am wondering what type of Amp (no. of channels etc.) I need for the following:

I have a Pioneer DEH-P6300R head unit and Infinity 605cs speakers up front and I want an amp to run both the 605's and a 12" sub.

As I'm fairly new to ICE any help would be appreciated.

Gavin G

rockin'Ru

The Pioneer,great starting point(IMO)
The amp you want will depend on what your sub is.Can you tell us any details about it?Like power handeling(rms)and wheather it's a single or dual voice coil?

Gavin G

Rockin' Ru

I haven't decided on what type of sub, all I know is that I will probably go for a 12" one. Maybe you can recommend both a good amp and sub that would do the job.

Cheers

Gavin G

chiark

I like the Philips for a cheap n cheerful four channel entry amp with loads of features - Gregh has one which he paid around 130 quid for, and I would rate it very well.

How much bass are you looking for? I take it, "enough" rather than "enough to loosen my fillings and make my spoiler drop off"?

If so, the Philips would suit you well and be an excellent amp for the future. I kept mine for 8? years as it's just so damn useful and has a nice sonic signature - it's completely unfatiguing, meaning you're never reaching for the volume control other than to turn everything up!

Nick.

rockin'Ru

Well,I've never heard a Phillips amp before,but I'd trust Nick's judgment on them.If they are bridgable like most 4 channel amps,you could run a Pioneer IMMP 12" sub from the rear channels.The HU has all the controls for the sub built in.Be a nice setup.

pat

I'de be tempted to use a pair of amps instead of just one, this will help reduce intermodulation distortion and crosstalk, as well as using amps which are better suited to the cones.

For clarity, I've found that the Phase Linear amps are pretty hard to beat, and the design (PSU completely separate from the amps) appealed. Certainly appeared to work Dunno what else to suggest for the fronts, maybe some Phoenix kit... neither are particularly wallet friendly... the Phase Linear used to cost about a grand for the PSU and amp

For the bass, you can get away with something a little less clinical... I'm currently using the brute force approach, Audiobahn A2300HCX (?) behemoth shoving a claimed 2.5kW RMS into the sub, certainly seems to work alright, but I think the rear view mirror may need to be superglued, it keeps losing its position! As expected, the fronts remain perfectly clean, even when the rear window is making a concerted effort to part company with the chassis

And no, I'm not an SPL junkie, OK? It takes a lot of power to heat these cones, and they never sound quite "right" until they're warm, IMHO. About half an hour at 110 to 120 dB gets them just nice Then it's sweat... I'de keep the stereo on all the way from London to Edinburgh without ever tiring of it... just had to make sure that I had some chillout for the stretch up the '68, lest I get too carried away

Anyway, the point is, IMVHO, the best approach is a decent 2 channel amp for the front and a sub and amp for the boot...

Just my tuppence worth...

Cheers,

Pat.

rockin'Ru

Just my opinion,but why go with that much power and money to achieve what he could get with 1 15" sub and 500 watts?I own an Adire Audio Tempest and will put it up against the Audiobahn crap anyday.152.3 db,1 15" and 500 watts in 4 cubes.Bang for the buck(and sq)can't be beat.
Audiobahn amps will put out their rated rms for a millisecond with a direct lightning strike,and the speakers are no better.
The price paid for the above mentioned set up is crazy,and if all that money was spent my way,I'd have a supirior bottom end in both sq and spl.It would leave "skid marks" in the seats.
As for the amp,a nice,sensible system will work fine with one 4 channel amp.Only the fussy audiophile will go into such detail.
He has a great HU.It will allow him to control the fronts with great detail and control a sub also.He can run the factory rears off of the hu in bandpass mode for imaging.
I just installed a 4300 in my wifes car.I know what it can do.I'm trying to get him the most bang for the buck.
Nick,what's the rms of that Phillips amp?

chiark

I would agree with Pat's approach as the ultimate endgame, if there is such a thing in the world of car audio, and indeed this is what I have done in my car. (Soundstream 604 for the fronts and RF Punch 200ix for the subs - could do with something meatier for the subs ultimately)

It depends how much you want to spend, how much space you can sacrifice, and how far you see yourself going.

I'd still be tempted by a four channel if this is your first amp as this will get you started driving a sub with no further expenditure. At a later date, when you want more, you can add a separate high current sub-dedicated amp and use your newly available channels on the original amp to drive the *shudder* back speakers, or add an active crossover and drive the front woofers/tweeters independently.

The DAP6030 (I think that's the model- replacement for the DAP600) has low and high pass filters on both input pairs, is bridgeable and gives out around 4x50W or 2x180W RMS. It would get you started.

What's your budget? If you can spend more, you may want to look at the entry level Phoenix Gold stuff...

Adam M

nick please stop recommending RF stuff, it is all utter crap allegedly.

Have taken many of their products to pieces whilst on phoenix training courses in a know your enemy kind of way, and the quality is pants.

You should have seen the clipping from the punch 100 amps on the cro comapred with the pheonix on the same load signal and power supply.

It was shocking.

steve_s

I've got a philips dap 6040 running front channels into infinity 605's. sounds sweet enough if you on a budget. and rear channels bridged to run dbaudio Rapter 10" sub in boot. can thoroughly recommend both amp & sub for the money
Philips dap 6040 power is 65 rms x 4 into 4ohms at 0.01% THD
I think it more than doubles if bridged.
as nick rightly says £130 for amp & £90 for sub...
These subs got a cracking review in all the mags that tested them.
a bit difficult for anyone to advise when budget not known.

hope this helps
steve s

Adam M

chiark it woul appear from the post above that you have called me a tart. You did not say you think I am tart, you just statemed taht I am. I am therefore suing you scoobynet and teh horse you rode in on for slander.

PS. phoenix dont cobble anything together. tey only craft this with love and care.

stevencotton

I have both RF and Phoenix Gold amps in mine, it's well hard to stop them kicking the **** out of eachother. Like having kids in the back.

Steve.

Adam M

but the phoenix is more your james bond whereas your rockford is more the man from the mr. muscle advert who cleans ovens without gloves on.

Gavin G

This all seems a bit technical for me!

Basically I have a budget of around £200 - £300 for an amp and sub.

So am I right in saying I need a 4 channel amp i.e one for each of the 605's and one for the sub which makes up 3 channels? Will I then have one left over or can I configure a 4 channel amp to run as 3 channels?

Then on to the sub, whats the difference in dual voice coil and single and does the type of sub dictate what type of amp I'll need or vice-versa?

I have noticed in my head unit (Pioneet DEH-P6300R) that there are some settings for subs so does this mean I'd have to use a Pioneer amp to take advantage of this?

Im a bit confused so perhaps the best thing would be for someone who knows their amps and subs to recommend both an amp and sub to me within my price range!

Cheers,

Gavin G

chiark

Blinded by science!

Sorry about that - it's got a bit theoretical in here.

For my money, I'd go for the Philips DAP6030 for 140 quid-odd, and a 60 quid 10 inch sub from a reputable brand. You'll need a box as well for your sub so budget for that, plus around 40 quid for all the cables, fusing etc to make everything work.

If you trust us, stop reading. However, the following is an attempt to explain some of the issues raised in this thread.

Regarding voice coils... The thing that makes a speaker move, and therefore make noise, is a voice coil. It's a coil of wire in a magnetic field that exerts a force when a current is passed through it. Some speakers have one voice coil, some have two to maximise the amount of coil in the magnetic gap. If you do have two voice coils, the signal really needs to be exactly the same to both of them otherwise strange things could happen. So the most common way to achieve this is is to wire both coils on one channel of amplification. Putting speakers in parallel drops the impedance, so your amp needs to be stable at the new impedance.

The philips amp that I mention is a four channel amp that is "bridgeable". This means that you can combine two channels together to make one larger channel (eg 2x50W=1x200W potentially). The amp is also 2 ohm stable when in stereo mode. Bridging an amp causes each channel to effectively see "half the total load" so a 2 ohm stereo stable amp will support a 4 ohm mono load. To support a 2 ohm mono load, you'd need an amp that supports 1 ohm stereo. (I'm sure Pat will be grimacing at this analogy)

Most subs for in-car use are single voice coil (SVC) with a 4 ohm coil. Some are dual voice coil of varying impedance, such as dual 6 ohm voice coils. Paralleling these up gives a 3 ohm load (1/r = 1/r1 + 1/r2, ie 1/r = 1/6 + 1/6 therefore r=3) which most amps will run bridged, even if they get a little hot doing so.

Made it this far? Good.

Regarding the size of your sub, you've got two real choices: 10" diameter or 12" diameter. The surface area of a 12" is 44% bigger, so you'll get more output, but a 10" sub, as a general rule, sounds punchier. (Forgive the generalisation here folks)

My advice would be keep it simple, go for the DAP6030, a 10" sub, suitable box and wiring, and have change from 300 quid. You've got a system you can build on should you want to.