MK1ITS

iTrader: (2)

Well, you can probably guess by the title what's happened....no?....well despite me buying a 2 owner from new, full service history, 58k 2004 WRX, trying to ensure I got the best possible car, the bottom end has developed the fatal bottom end knock.

Now, I know what most you experienced Subaru members are going to say, that perhaps I didn't service the car often enough, or perhaps I drove it like I stole it all the time, but this just simply wasn't the case.......I'm 34 so past driving everyday like an idiot and I look after my possessions.

The offending incidident occured the other day when deciding to see how the Subaru faired against a Porsche Carrera 4 on a dual-carriageway; after a 2 mile straight and turning off, everything seemed fine. But when I pulled off from the next junction, the loud random knock came.......

After 2 separate car garage quick diagnosis's (one of them being Carnetix in Melton Mowbray), coupled with the event on the dual-carriageway, the conclusion is that damage is done to the bottom end.

In all the years of owning performance cars, I have never once had to rebuild an engine (maybe I've been lucky? who knows), and the fact that what has happened to my Subaru and many other hundreds maybe thousands of Subaru's, make me question exactly why Subaru gave the car 5 gears and allowed it to rev so far round the rev counter, when clearly it just isn't up to the job in standard guise; apparently the STi engine is prone as well as the WRX.

With hindsight, if I'd known that by sticking to a high speed for a prolonged period of time would seriously jeopardise my engine, I would have thought twice about ever going past a certain mph and to be honest, ever buying the car.

I thought I'd done considerable research but clearly I didn't and I'm now left with a car which is pretty much an ornament on my driveway.

The repair bill is estimated at around £3k and I know it could cost a lot more however the decision has been made to sell the car as soon as the work is completed. As good as the Subaru is, it really isn't that good and has dropped down in my estimation. Or am I being harsh and wanting to drive my sports car fast unreasonable?

That all said, the 'plan' is to repair the engine myself, with the help of a few local garages to identify the true damage once the bottom end is out.

I'll be purchasing an engine stand today along with a workbench for the garage and in a way I'm looking forward to the task ahead. This forum has been invaluable with my research since 3am this morning, and after watching videos on youtube and reading the walkthroughs on here, I feel I'm ready to being.

I'll post up how I get on and I'm sure that I'll be popping back on when something doesnt seem to be going right!

If anyone has any advice (useful/constructive ) then please feel free to share as even though I'm selling the car straight after, I want to make sure it's all done properly and no corners are missed.

ATB

Mark.

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

Sorry to hear that m8
But red lining a Subaru really is a (fatal) flaw
Thr simply isn't a need for it
Good luck with the strip & build

barnshaw

iTrader: (1)

its bad news mate but there is more then likely a reason for the failure, a strip down should reveal this, its worth noting though that you will see lots of horror stories on here, its very easy for people to make a post when an enginer fails but you wont see daily posts from people confirming their engine is still working.

I know you state the car has only had 2 owners but you dont know the past or history on it? could have poor grade oil used? abused daily? wrong fuel type used after mapping, anything to contribute to an engine failure.

As said you dont NEED to red line a subaru, but red line and rev limit is there for a reason so in theory your car should not allow to over rev beyond the realms of being dangerous (unless you have had an aftermarket ecu and raised the rev limit)

I would put it down to bad luck, rebuild and do it properly with decent parts and a reputable garage, once you have done this you will have a strong engine which you wont have to worry about, dont let it put you off subarus as smiles per gallon you wont get better

CREWJ

That totally sucks mate. I hope this becomes a great thread with all the pics you coulf get.

Galifrey

iTrader: (3)

API do a drive in/out service for @£2k I think, alternately, if you are doing yourself, may as well forge it and uprate the oil pump.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

None of the production Subarus with the small bonnet scoop like running hard at high revs high road speed and on boost as the scoop gets less efficient as the speed builds and cool air is deflected over the top of the scoop.

The intake air temperature rises and it start to det. Once that happens, the det causes in cylinder temps to rise and the problem feeds on itself. The engine oil temperature rises and the oil protection breaks down.

From a healthy engine to scrap in those conditions can be as low as a single mile travelled.

Keep it below 110 mph for any length of time, keep it off boost at those sort of speeds and you have a chance.

OR: fit a front mount intercooler and an oil cooler and the problem goes away.

Good Luck, Call if I can help with advice or parts. We do offer a budget repair that is extremely economical if you decide not to invest in engine stands and benches and so on.

regards David APi 01926 614522

faz27

So gutted for you mate I've had 3 sti s and never had many problems at all but the car I've got now did develop a bottom end knock so the guy I bought it off dropped in a 2.5 short perhaps if you look on the bright side you could do yourself a nice little upgrade? Silver lining lol fyi if your doing it you might as well use fotprged internals and you won't be getting this problem again hopefully
Gutted for you though

s13silvia

Now you've got the problem I would say go to the MOST respected garage you can find. Not your local 'fixerupper'. Not only do they usually charge more labour because they aren't familiar with the engine and take more time, but even with well-reputed engine builders in the UK there seems to be a massive defecit of quality workmanship. Theres numerous reports of people spending 8-10k on forged upgrades/rebuilds etc. and ending up with an engine which goes bang in less than 3-4k, or even worse being ripped off their money entirely after waiting for months-years for work to be completed.
The UK tuning scene is improving, but if I had the money I would get a built engine sent over from the US where they really know their apples. The subaru world might have a few good builders in the uk, but I know from experience with some other marques importing from US is well worth considering.

TheVoices

iTrader: (5)

From experience......................

If you are determined to sell it, just fit a good used bottom end, you won't see any return on the cost of a rebuilt engine if you sell it straight away.

I am sure I have seen people on here selling STi 7/8 bottom ends for under £1000.

If you go down the route of a 'real' rebuild and decide to keep it there a a few reputable engine builders with a proven track record (pun intended !)

David at APi, Harvey Smith, Andy Williams and Engine Tuner all have good feedback from their customers (along with others I have missed !)

Best of luck with the project !

brendy76

iTrader: (6)

get it fixed and drive it, you now know the car and any weaknesses, imagine selling up and buying another lemon.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

I would say exactly the opposite [ but l would; wouldn't I ? ] We have seen all sorts of rubbish that people have bought in from the USA. The yanks do not have a monopoly on doing it right, far from it.

I can think of at least 8 serious, quality professional engine builders here in the UK that do it right first time.

The problem we have experienced with stuff from the USA [ more than once ] is that IF you get a problem, they are a long way away and any return to base for ispection type deal is mega hassle. You cannot go round there and discuss things and when the going gets sticky it is easy to hide from your customer.

David APi

ironbridge

iTrader: (3)

Gutted for you matey.

Forge it and keep it, that's what I'd do in this situation.

s13silvia

Very good point above about distance in case of an issue ^ I guess it depends on the support offered in the UK. Hondas and it sounds like Subarus have a lot of support in the UK so chances are there's going to be some good builders around. With some of my Nissans though there has been almost nil make-specific UK builders with any kind of reputation to fall back on, whereas for little more than it would cost to get it done in the uk, you could import fully built engines from the US from model-specific tuning companies with massive reputations.
I wont mention any names as its not my place, but a local fella spent 8k getting his scooby forged from a well known builder, it was knackered within a few hundred miles during the run-in and now hes spending 2k at another builder getting the problem fixed. But hey it's a bit of a gamble I suppose, Id just make sure I spent the money and travelled the distance to get the best workmanship possible.

Tidgy

get an engine sent over from the US rather than a tuner build it for you in the uk?

pmsl, thats the funniest thing i've heard this year lol

53

iTrader: (41)

Certainly cheaper to import some of the rebuild parts from the US.

Tidgy

assuming it works 100% and i doubt its that much cheaper by the time you factor in installing it mapping etc etc

by going to a specialist and getting them to supply, build and map you are covered should something goes wrong. If not you will be out of pocket stuck in a war of words between somone int he US saying it was fitted wrong and someone in the UK sayign th parts were faulty. Once it gets to that stage you may as well forget gettign any money back and have to pay out again.

Fleetster

Gutted for you!

I have a 2004 WRX and worry that this is going to happen

MK1ITS

iTrader: (2)

Take note from the comments above mate; do not red-line the scoob (you should be able to but hey, who knows?).

As above, dont go over the 110mph mark (on track of course) and you should get away with it.....

MK1ITS

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for all the comments guys, some definite interesting reading there......

I'm off to machine mart in Leicester for the engine stand and workbench then back home to do some rearranging!

If anyone is near Melton Mowbray this weekend and knows what their doing with a Subaru engine, feel free to pop in!

I will post pics as I go along and keep the post going......

Thanks again chaps....

s13silvia

^ a mate of mine took his 300zx to a really big-name jap tuner in england who 100% of you would know and probably use. After 1.5 years and 10k of bills he ended up with his car and engine back in a hundred pieces. He ended up having to sell off all the bits and start again as the tuner were wanting another 5k to finish the build with an unknown ETA.
Another mate had his CRX at a low-rate tuner for 4 years!! who then declared bankrupcy, sold on his forged engine components and uprated head, sold everything from his crx except for the bare shell which he got back, then started trading under another name. How he didnt end up in jail I don't know.
Yet another pal had a similar issue with yet another big-name uk Z tuner and his 300, he ended up buying a crate motor from Z1 Motorsport in US and never looked back, runs a beaut. It's not as uneconomical or silly as it seems, I've come across so many horror storeis from uk builders.

Perhaps you folk in the subaru world are graced with good fortune - which is a great reassurance now I have one

Fleetster

Cheers for that Mate, what with this thread and the other rebuild one recenty you start to think about selling up!.... I know all cars have their own problems and worries but when your reading about builds being 4k+ you start to worry

Hope you get it sorted quickly and ( i would say cheaply but cheap isnt always a good option so ill say) at a fair price (thread subscribed to )

Tidgy

two bad experiances is no way a reflection on tuners as a whole. Lets put you 100% claim to the test, drop me a PM with who it was

Im afraid that putting that amount of time and money into would put mega warning signs in most folks heads.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

scoobyworld in loughborough have a 2005 sti bottom end for sale (via one of there customers) for £999

Skem55

Been here! back in july and just got my classic running again, get ur hands dirty! good luck

Gigsy

WTF? Come on guys, driving a WRX is not guaranteed to result in a blown engine... if it was, Subaru's reputation for reliability would not exist.

I've had 3 WRXs now (all well maintained with documented service history) and all of them have spent several hours on autobahns (frequently above 110 plus a few attempts at vMax ) not to mention some track abuse without once blowing up and I bet I'm not the only one to have experienced this phenomenon.

Even my previous Forester XT which was modded from 177 to 260bhp late in life and had a p!ss poor service history (it was v cheap) lasted 130k miles including more than a few miles on the autobahns before it suffered from a cracked ringland.

If properly looked after, a turbo'd EJ20 engine is generally a reliable lump. Of course, if not looked after properly / regularly abused / heavily modded, it's just common sense that the lifespan will shorten.

@MK1ITS, you've been unlucky IMHO, simple as that, and I wish you the best of luck in getting it fixed (fix it and enjoy it - don't let it put you off BTW).

I know David @ API is well respected and deservedly so by all accounts but..

...just because it can happen, doesn't mean it's bound happen. There's no reason to go writing off all WRX engines with a "glass is half empty" attitude.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

1) Gutted for you
2) Take it to APi get the to rebuild it to std spec and sell it on with confidence OR get them to build you something a bit more tasty and enjoy it!

poolio74

Best of luck mate.Feel for yer

MK1ITS

iTrader: (2)

Unlucky I agree with Gigsy, and as was mentioned further up within the post, perhaps it was thrashed all its 58,000miles before it came into a careful owners hands!!

As with all cars, you get mixed reviews and opinions however I would like to see a wrx/STi (2004 and other models) placed into a wind tunnel with all the necessary equipment to replicate my then circumstances. According to many Subaru specialists, the air bounces over the scoop raising temperatures, thinning oil and then the inevitable happens. You probably dont need to be a Subaru specialist to know this though....

I must say that when I was, you know, up there(COUGH), doing 150mph on the track (COUGH), the bonnet was bouncing all over the place which kinda made me a little nervous.....

Scoops have their place but I'm not sure they're so effective when doing great speeds....I could be wrong....

Just my 'DIY-Mechanic@ opinion....but what the hell do I know?

Anyway, I've got the engine stand and workbench from Machine Mart who even loaded it into the car (Thanks Tom and Tom! ) so I'll be spending the evening clearing the garage and building these so I'll post the first pics of the 'prepped' garage when done! Although I'm sure you've all seen a garage before, it's still the 'first' step of an engine rebuild....clean/clear premises....

And stop telling me to keep it and buy forged bits.....

poolio74

You never said wether you kept up with the porsche or not?I no it doesnt matter now,but i cant be the only one thinking itP.S Forge it and keep it!

53

iTrader: (41)

Drop an engine in from a breaker and sell it, or rebuild it and keep it Rebuilding to sell is expensively pointless IMHO