MadUsa1

Just seen these on their website, seems like a new product from them.

Anyone tried one yet? Looks like a nice set up:

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/s...7_upgrades.asp

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

Read through Bob Rawle's project in the projects section, you will find it includes what your looking for.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Surely this is the holy grail of 2.5s?!

Ringland issues no more (given a decent ECU map of course)?!

Turbovin

iTrader: (2)

I'm guessing it's even more expensive than a CDB 2.35l?

beliblisk

iTrader: (16)

...and 2,35s aint exactly cheap:S

rickya

iTrader: (18)

It looks good

Billet

iTrader: (60)

Can't you achieve the same result as in the picture, if you rebored a CDB to a 2.5 or had some deck plates put into a S-CDB OR ODB 2.5, converting it to a CDB 2.5?

MadUsa1

Thanks for the responses folks. I noticed the Bob Rawle has been using one of these for a while, I was wondering if there are any others.

I've asked Litchfield for some prices but haven't heard anything back yet.

I'm not sure how the insert actually works, it looks like a single piece that gets somehow secured to the deck. It might still be that a bored out EJ22 CDB would be stronger since it's a solid closed deck rather than an insert.

I was actually sort of hoping this would be a cheaper option than a 2.35, but I could be wrong...

Alan Jeffery

Being fair, strictly speaking the ringland issues with the 2.5 are more to do with piston quality than open/closed deck.
We'd all like to think this is a fix for the issue, as always, time will tell!
It's certainly a neat piece of engineering.

MadUsa1

I think that's exactly what Litchfield have done: they've taken a standard 2.5 block and used an insert to close the deck.

I'm just not sure how the insert is actually bonded to the block, I could imagine the insert lifting from the deck under changes in temperature, which could be trouble.

MadUsa1

I guess the main benefits of converting the 2.5 to a CDB are:

1) To secure the headgasket more firmly (larger area for it to mate to)
2) To provide more support for the tops of the cylinders, to stop them distorting under high pressure

But I'm just guessing here...

Alan Jeffery

It's 2) rather than 1)
I think we all wish Subaru made them strong to start with. Somewhere there's an executive with a lot to answer for!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXh4xf49hYk

MadUsa1

Thanks Alan. I always thought the CDB helped to seat the HG better than the ODB so there's less chance of blow through.

You're right about the exec though - imagine the money they've spent replacing all those broken 2.5L engines, not to mention the reputation damage. Would it not have been cheaper in the long run to use a CDB 2.5 and a set of forged pistons?

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Did we find out how much these blocks cost?

Alan Jeffery

It would, and then some I think. It's a classic case of college educated idiots overruling engineers.

Subaru are by no means the only manufacturers making expensive mistakes.
We have a 55 plate Audi A4 diesel in now with a broken oil pump drive. It's a single row chain and wouldn't look out of place on your toddler's pedal car.
Apparently these cars are dying like flies with only 70/80 thousand on the clock. Worse, the parts are back order, and haven't been available for three months at least due to demand!

MOTORS S GT

iTrader: (2)

I have done a few of these Audi / VW oil pump failures, i agree totally Alan, although i think if you fitted a childs bike sprocket, it would be classed as an upgrade.

toyney83

iTrader: (3)

i thought main failures with 2.5 were liners ballooning and/or moving? would a custom linered 2.5 not do a job?

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

depends on who did the liners.many claim they can fit stronger liners but the truth is,many have failed.miserably.

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

Fitting new liners is very expensive
Back to this Lichfield CDB if u follow bobs project he had the block chemically treated to stop movement of the heads so not sure if it is just a liner prob creating movement ? Anybody

Andy.F

Alyn at ASPerformance is also doing a similar closed deck block modification, price is circa £500-£600 I believe.

http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimateb...=001901#000009

MadUsa1

How do these inserts actually woke though? Are they welded into the block or do they just sit there? Is there any concern about different rates of expansion between the two different materials?

Andy.F

Just a light interference fit from a material with similar expansion rates to the block.

Will let you know how it performs when I get my closed deck EG33 block fitted shortly, anything under 1300bhp will be considered a 'fail' !

g7prs

iTrader: (5)

Holy $hit 1300 I hope you have bigger brakes on it since the last time i saw them

MadUsa1

Interference fit?

Not sure i like the sound of that, particularly since they machine away the standard cylinder strengtheners to fit these.

Andy.F

If it has any clearance it will fret due to the combustion pressure causing movement at the interface. Don't see a problem with a light interference fit considering the liners will be rebored and honed after plate fitment.

kb1

iTrader: (1)

Any up date guys?