What engine mods next?
07 October 2011, 12:48 PM
#1
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What engine mods next?
Wondering what next to do to my 05 WRX PPP, it is currently dyno'd at 259bhp with the following engine mods..PPP, Prodrive down pipe, Cosworth Timing belt, uprated Billet Guide, HRC 255lph Fuel Pump, Pro-R Air filter, Silicon hoses, STi Intercooler, Afterburner S/S center section.
Bought it with these mods already done, believe the previous owner was considering a TD05 and a remap. Should this be the logical next step, how much and what gains could I expect?
Bought it with these mods already done, believe the previous owner was considering a TD05 and a remap. Should this be the logical next step, how much and what gains could I expect?
07 October 2011, 01:10 PM
#3
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Also got front strut brace, powerflex F/R ARB bushes and whiteline solid drop links.
07 October 2011, 01:46 PM
#4
STI up pipe would probably have gotten you another 10-20bhp for the cost of about £30-40 for the part + remap.
I'm running a standard WRX intercooler, injectors and TD04 and made over 280bhp; good power I admit, but the up pipe is the next one without spending big money.
After that, power wise it's VF34/35 or TD05 18G, etc + bigger injectors, ported / tubular headers which should take you into the 300's.
I would also thoroughly recommend a 24mm rear ARB to massively improve handling. Best value for money you can buy - hands down.
That and a whiteline anti lift kit after.
Don't bother with the front bar unless you're doing track days, it doesn't make as much difference - I run F&R and tbh the front really hasn't transformed the car at all in comparison to the rear one.
Neither did a strut brace - the newage chassis is fairly stiff in comparison to the classic.
Also - brake stopper isn't a bad idea if you get pedal vibration when the ABS kicks in.
You mention a Prodrive sports cat and afterburner centre section - if this is then going into a standard WRX exhaust you're still strangling the gas flow - bin it and replace it from the centre back with a Prodrive item or other aftermarket job - will probably net you a few more bhp and sound far better too.
I'm running a standard WRX intercooler, injectors and TD04 and made over 280bhp; good power I admit, but the up pipe is the next one without spending big money.
After that, power wise it's VF34/35 or TD05 18G, etc + bigger injectors, ported / tubular headers which should take you into the 300's.
I would also thoroughly recommend a 24mm rear ARB to massively improve handling. Best value for money you can buy - hands down.
That and a whiteline anti lift kit after.
Don't bother with the front bar unless you're doing track days, it doesn't make as much difference - I run F&R and tbh the front really hasn't transformed the car at all in comparison to the rear one.
Neither did a strut brace - the newage chassis is fairly stiff in comparison to the classic.
Also - brake stopper isn't a bad idea if you get pedal vibration when the ABS kicks in.
You mention a Prodrive sports cat and afterburner centre section - if this is then going into a standard WRX exhaust you're still strangling the gas flow - bin it and replace it from the centre back with a Prodrive item or other aftermarket job - will probably net you a few more bhp and sound far better too.
Last edited by MrNoisy; 07 October 2011 at 01:51 PM.
07 October 2011, 10:51 PM
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You mention a Prodrive sports cat and afterburner centre section - if this is then going into a standard WRX exhaust you're still strangling the gas flow - bin it and replace it from the centre back with a Prodrive item or other aftermarket job - will probably net you a few more bhp and sound far better too.
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07 October 2011, 10:53 PM
#8
The Blob WRX PPP runs 265 PS (261 BHP) so It's running fine 
http://www.prodrive.com/up/03MY%20WRX%20PPP.pdf
Next step is usually TD05 16G / VF34 / VF35 with supporting mods to 330-340 BHP.
http://www.andyforrestperformance.co.uk/58901.html
Shaun
http://www.prodrive.com/up/03MY%20WRX%20PPP.pdf
Next step is usually TD05 16G / VF34 / VF35 with supporting mods to 330-340 BHP.
http://www.andyforrestperformance.co.uk/58901.html
Shaun
08 October 2011, 10:20 AM
#9
My 2005 WRX PPP is running 3" decat Milltek,VF35 STI pinks, decatted up pipe, Walbro 255 fuel pump, K&N panel filter, standard WRX intercooler and mapped by Zen. Ran 312.1 bhp with 299lb ft torque on the rollers.
VF35 can be had cheaply if you buy a previously enjoyed one from the For Sale section.
VF35 can be had cheaply if you buy a previously enjoyed one from the For Sale section.
08 October 2011, 06:10 PM
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My 2005 WRX PPP is running 3" decat Milltek,VF35 STI pinks, decatted up pipe, Walbro 255 fuel pump, K&N panel filter, standard WRX intercooler and mapped by Zen. Ran 312.1 bhp with 299lb ft torque on the rollers.
VF35 can be had cheaply if you buy a previously enjoyed one from the For Sale section.
VF35 can be had cheaply if you buy a previously enjoyed one from the For Sale section.
08 October 2011, 08:37 PM
#12
Along with the anti-lift kit and rear roll bar you should have a geo set up done to make all the wheels point the right way, that will make the most of your handling mods and transform the car, and bin the prodrive map and get someone like dynamix to remap it for you, then you will have a good fast road car and i'd bet he would release a few more horses too.
09 October 2011, 12:21 PM
#13
Wondering what next to do to my 05 WRX PPP, it is currently dyno'd at 259bhp with the following engine mods..PPP, Prodrive down pipe, Cosworth Timing belt, uprated Billet Guide, HRC 255lph Fuel Pump, Pro-R Air filter, Silicon hoses, STi Intercooler, Afterburner S/S center section.
Bought it with these mods already done, believe the previous owner was considering a TD05 and a remap. Should this be the logical next step, how much and what gains could I expect?
Bought it with these mods already done, believe the previous owner was considering a TD05 and a remap. Should this be the logical next step, how much and what gains could I expect?
Your car still has more to come on existing injectors/turbo with full supporting mods, complete decat, ported headers and matched uppipe.
STi injectors, ported headers, matched uppipe, full decat and you are ready for the next step. Your existing intercooler is not too bad providing you have the STi intercooler. Turbos to consider are VF35, VF34, TD05 16G front entry or TD05 18G or VF43. Be very careful if you are looking at secondhand turbos.
18 November 2011, 07:58 PM
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Started buying the parts ahead of a remap next year. At the moment, thinking of aiming for 290bhp / 300lb and keeping the TD04. So is there anything else I need in addition to the below?
Prodrive sportscat d/p, decat u/p, afterburner centre section, HRC 255lph Fuel Pump, Pro-R Air filter, STi TMIC.
Prodrive sportscat d/p, decat u/p, afterburner centre section, HRC 255lph Fuel Pump, Pro-R Air filter, STi TMIC.
18 November 2011, 08:50 PM
#15
Better off running a TD05 VF35 / VF34 at 75 % than a TD04 at 110% plus for the figures you want.
The TD04 will be heating the air rather than compressing it efficiently.......might lose a bit low down but not a lot with matched up-pipe and ported headers...
Shaun
The TD04 will be heating the air rather than compressing it efficiently.......might lose a bit low down but not a lot with matched up-pipe and ported headers...
Shaun
19 November 2011, 11:05 AM
#16
I sincerely doubt unless you're looking at a hybrid that you'll ever see 300 ft/lb from a TD04.
Mine made 281bhp and a little less torque wise on a Prodrive Sports cat, STI up pipe, Prodrive centre decat, going to 3" catback, WRX intercooler, walbro and green panel filter.
With STI pinks, STI intercooler, VF35 and porter headers added to the mix, it made 328bhp, but lower down it's about the same as it was as the TD04 until you get to about 45-50mph, then it pulls much more strongly than the TD04 did.
Apparently my up pipe has a slight blow though, so I may see another 5-10bhp once I get that resolved and the map tweaked; had the same issue when mapping the TD04 and the car made another 10bhp once Simon had worked his magic.
19 November 2011, 12:05 PM
#17
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Like he said.
I sincerely doubt unless you're looking at a hybrid that you'll ever see 300 ft/lb from a TD04.
Mine made 281bhp and a little less torque wise on a Prodrive Sports cat, STI up pipe, Prodrive centre decat, going to 3" catback, WRX intercooler, walbro and green panel filter.
With STI pinks, STI intercooler, VF35 and porter headers added to the mix, it made 328bhp, but lower down it's about the same as it was as the TD04 until you get to about 45-50mph, then it pulls much more strongly than the TD04 did.
Apparently my up pipe has a slight blow though, so I may see another 5-10bhp once I get that resolved and the map tweaked; had the same issue when mapping the TD04 and the car made another 10bhp once Simon had worked his magic.
I sincerely doubt unless you're looking at a hybrid that you'll ever see 300 ft/lb from a TD04.
Mine made 281bhp and a little less torque wise on a Prodrive Sports cat, STI up pipe, Prodrive centre decat, going to 3" catback, WRX intercooler, walbro and green panel filter.
With STI pinks, STI intercooler, VF35 and porter headers added to the mix, it made 328bhp, but lower down it's about the same as it was as the TD04 until you get to about 45-50mph, then it pulls much more strongly than the TD04 did.
Apparently my up pipe has a slight blow though, so I may see another 5-10bhp once I get that resolved and the map tweaked; had the same issue when mapping the TD04 and the car made another 10bhp once Simon had worked his magic.
Thanks for the response guys. Looks like I may need to add turbo onto the xmas list after all. Does make sense.
19 November 2011, 12:20 PM
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Got a decat uppipe on the way! Gradually getting it all together, hoping for a remap once winter is done so going to keep my eyes open for a turbo and pink injectors now
19 November 2011, 01:24 PM
#20
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Not to everyone's taste but what I have on my blob is a larger intercooler, 3" straight through decat exhaust, cold air induction kit and obviously a remap. You could look at a bigger turbo if you wanted.
21 November 2011, 06:53 AM
#21
The OP also could look at a bigger Turbo, but get much past 350 ish and you're looking at killing the wrx gearbox, and reliability becomes more of a problem - so then you'd need to think about PPG or STI boxes....and then you are talking ££££'s!
Last edited by MrNoisy; 21 November 2011 at 09:35 AM.
22 November 2011, 12:50 PM
#23
Stick with the OE airbox for what you are doing.
FULLY decatted with ported headers and matched uppipe, 3" open neck downpipe I see these cars making 280 plus bhp on the OE turbo after Ecutek mapping and the best one we had according to the road dyno was 296 bhp.
Without a full decat you will make less than the figures above and I seriously doubt even with a full decat that 300 bhp is likely but you will notice a good difference from what I am suggesting.
This crap about gearboxes breaking ie. 5 speed TY754s especially on New Age cars is grossly overdone. We have lots of these running well over 400 bhp and they do not break unless they are in the hands of some neanderthal or someone has extreme bad luck, possibly on a car previously abused.
FULLY decatted with ported headers and matched uppipe, 3" open neck downpipe I see these cars making 280 plus bhp on the OE turbo after Ecutek mapping and the best one we had according to the road dyno was 296 bhp.
Without a full decat you will make less than the figures above and I seriously doubt even with a full decat that 300 bhp is likely but you will notice a good difference from what I am suggesting.
This crap about gearboxes breaking ie. 5 speed TY754s especially on New Age cars is grossly overdone. We have lots of these running well over 400 bhp and they do not break unless they are in the hands of some neanderthal or someone has extreme bad luck, possibly on a car previously abused.
23 November 2011, 06:58 AM
#24
Stick with the OE airbox for what you are doing.
FULLY decatted with ported headers and matched uppipe, 3" open neck downpipe I see these cars making 280 plus bhp on the OE turbo after Ecutek mapping and the best one we had according to the road dyno was 296 bhp.
Without a full decat you will make less than the figures above and I seriously doubt even with a full decat that 300 bhp is likely but you will notice a good difference from what I am suggesting.
This crap about gearboxes breaking ie. 5 speed TY754s especially on New Age cars is grossly overdone. We have lots of these running well over 400 bhp and they do not break unless they are in the hands of some neanderthal or someone has extreme bad luck, possibly on a car previously abused.
FULLY decatted with ported headers and matched uppipe, 3" open neck downpipe I see these cars making 280 plus bhp on the OE turbo after Ecutek mapping and the best one we had according to the road dyno was 296 bhp.
Without a full decat you will make less than the figures above and I seriously doubt even with a full decat that 300 bhp is likely but you will notice a good difference from what I am suggesting.
This crap about gearboxes breaking ie. 5 speed TY754s especially on New Age cars is grossly overdone. We have lots of these running well over 400 bhp and they do not break unless they are in the hands of some neanderthal or someone has extreme bad luck, possibly on a car previously abused.
JGM advised me clutch would eventually need uprating after upping the power past 320-330, but I had a mate who killed his bugeye's gearbox at 360 on an 18G, and didn't fancy chancing it myself! (Given that we all like a bit of corsa humiliation every now and then
).Simon got 281 out of my TD04 with a Prodrive sports cat, which we both thought were good figures without decay.
Does full decat add further benefit in terms of spool, torque, or just overall power?
24 November 2011, 11:19 AM
#25
By that do you mean traffic light grand prix's Harvey?
Also note a paddle clutch will shorten the life of any gearbox.
I have run the TY754 box in three of my cars, all above 400 bhp, one above 500 bhp and all have done numerous drag starts at Elvington or lots of flat out laps at Croft blowing Ferrari, Porsche and other exotica into the weeds. Only issues I have had have been with the viscuous centre diff. However, with the TY752 box this can break quite easily, possibly because the casing is not rigid enough.
Two of the above 3 cars now have 6 speeds, one being with the latest wide ratios.
I agree with Simon. My experience is that on 5 speed cars the standard clutch will show tendancies to slip because of the increrased torque when you get to somewhere in the order of 320-330 bhp. This often occurs during mapping on fairly lightly modded cars with TD05 16G, VF24, VF28 etc. On the 6 speed box it is obviously far more robust, the clutch is bigger diameter (240mm as opposed to 230 or 225 diameter) and slip there because of torque as opposed to wear is not evident until we are beyond 350 bhp but remember it is torque not the bhp that causes the slip.
Simon got 281 out of my TD04 with a Prodrive sports cat, which we both thought were good figures without decay.
Does full decat add further benefit in terms of spool, torque, or just overall power?
Does full decat add further benefit in terms of spool, torque, or just overall power?
What have you done with your headers and uppipe?
BHP = torque x RPM/5252.
Generally, depending on the effect the modification has on the RPM area where torque is produced, any increase in torque results in an increase in bhp. Depsite glossy advertising claiming 8 or 10 bhp is the cost of a sports cat. I have not found one yet that did not cost 12 bhp and generally they are 15-22 bhp in my experience but you need the car remapped after you remove the CAT.
Last edited by harvey; 24 November 2011 at 11:25 AM.
25 November 2011, 11:41 AM
#26
Yes. that and other jerky, unnecessary application of the right foot, poor use if clutch and hard clonky gear shifts at almost every opportunity.
Also note a paddle clutch will shorten the life of any gearbox.
I have run the TY754 box in three of my cars, all above 400 bhp, one above 500 bhp and all have done numerous drag starts at Elvington or lots of flat out laps at Croft blowing Ferrari, Porsche and other exotica into the weeds. Only issues I have had have been with the viscuous centre diff. However, with the TY752 box this can break quite easily, possibly because the casing is not rigid enough.
Two of the above 3 cars now have 6 speeds, one being with the latest wide ratios.
I agree with Simon. My experience is that on 5 speed cars the standard clutch will show tendancies to slip because of the increrased torque when you get to somewhere in the order of 320-330 bhp. This often occurs during mapping on fairly lightly modded cars with TD05 16G, VF24, VF28 etc. On the 6 speed box it is obviously far more robust, the clutch is bigger diameter (240mm as opposed to 230 or 225 diameter) and slip there because of torque as opposed to wear is not evident until we are beyond 350 bhp but remember it is torque not the bhp that causes the slip.
Also note a paddle clutch will shorten the life of any gearbox.
I have run the TY754 box in three of my cars, all above 400 bhp, one above 500 bhp and all have done numerous drag starts at Elvington or lots of flat out laps at Croft blowing Ferrari, Porsche and other exotica into the weeds. Only issues I have had have been with the viscuous centre diff. However, with the TY752 box this can break quite easily, possibly because the casing is not rigid enough.
Two of the above 3 cars now have 6 speeds, one being with the latest wide ratios.
I agree with Simon. My experience is that on 5 speed cars the standard clutch will show tendancies to slip because of the increrased torque when you get to somewhere in the order of 320-330 bhp. This often occurs during mapping on fairly lightly modded cars with TD05 16G, VF24, VF28 etc. On the 6 speed box it is obviously far more robust, the clutch is bigger diameter (240mm as opposed to 230 or 225 diameter) and slip there because of torque as opposed to wear is not evident until we are beyond 350 bhp but remember it is torque not the bhp that causes the slip.
I've been told the Exedy pink clutches should be good enough for early to mid 300's. Mine seems ok at the moment but I haven't driven the car an enormous amount yet since the last upgrade.
Originally Posted by bugeye_scoob
Simon got 281 out of my TD04 with a Prodrive sports cat, which we both thought were good figures without decay.
Does full decat add further benefit in terms of spool, torque, or just overall power?
Does full decat add further benefit in terms of spool, torque, or just overall power?
What have you done with your headers and uppipe?
I've been tempted to remove the sports cat but have retained it for MOT purposes (can't be doing with the hassle of finding a friendly MOT centre or swapping it over every year).
Just had a ported VF35 and headers fitted, with an STI intercooler and injectors and Simon got 328bhp out of it, but it looks like my up pipe is blowing a little, so need to diagnose that over the weekend; may be another 5-10 to come
Last edited by MrNoisy; 25 November 2011 at 11:43 AM.
25 November 2011, 11:47 AM
#27
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What clutch would you recommend on a newage 5 speed?
I've been told the Exedy pink clutches should be good enough for early to mid 300's. Mine seems ok at the moment but I haven't driven the car an enormous amount yet since the last upgrade.
At the time, that was on a standard STI up pipe and standard WRX headers, Prodrive sports cat and decat centre, into 3" back exhaust and backbox, a green panel filter, and a walbro.
I've been tempted to remove the sports cat but have retained it for MOT purposes (can't be doing with the hassle of finding a friendly MOT centre or swapping it over every year).
Just had a ported VF35 and headers fitted, with an STI intercooler and injectors and Simon got 328bhp out of it, but it looks like my up pipe is blowing a little, so need to diagnose that over the weekend; may be another 5-10 to come
I've been told the Exedy pink clutches should be good enough for early to mid 300's. Mine seems ok at the moment but I haven't driven the car an enormous amount yet since the last upgrade.
At the time, that was on a standard STI up pipe and standard WRX headers, Prodrive sports cat and decat centre, into 3" back exhaust and backbox, a green panel filter, and a walbro.
I've been tempted to remove the sports cat but have retained it for MOT purposes (can't be doing with the hassle of finding a friendly MOT centre or swapping it over every year).
Just had a ported VF35 and headers fitted, with an STI intercooler and injectors and Simon got 328bhp out of it, but it looks like my up pipe is blowing a little, so need to diagnose that over the weekend; may be another 5-10 to come
25 November 2011, 11:52 AM
#28
Your plans sound exactly the route I will be going down with my 2005 WRX, and similar figures that I am looking for too. Just not sure whether to bite the bullet and go for the VF34/35 at the same time as everything else or do it in 2 stages (i.e supporting mods then remap to 280ish, then later change the turbo). Would also prefer to retain the sportscat.
I admit I was tempted to go for an 18g over a VF35 and sometimes wonder if I should have done....still tempted to switch, but we'll see....
At the risk of being flamed, I know many people sing the praises of the 34 over the 35 in terms of build quality, performance etc, but I couldn't justify the extra £100-150 I'd probably have been looking at for the potentially small difference in performance I felt it might have made, hence I went for a '35. Managed to pick up a set of pinks and the turbo for £350 all in.
25 November 2011, 12:43 PM
#29
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I'd advise you to just buy everything and then get it fitted in one mate - it's far cheaper financially as you only have to pay for the one map.
I admit I was tempted to go for an 18g over a VF35 and sometimes wonder if I should have done....still tempted to switch, but we'll see....
At the risk of being flamed, I know many people sing the praises of the 34 over the 35 in terms of build quality, performance etc, but I couldn't justify the extra £100-150 I'd probably have been looking at for the potentially small difference in performance I felt it might have made, hence I went for a '35. Managed to pick up a set of pinks and the turbo for £350 all in.
I admit I was tempted to go for an 18g over a VF35 and sometimes wonder if I should have done....still tempted to switch, but we'll see....
At the risk of being flamed, I know many people sing the praises of the 34 over the 35 in terms of build quality, performance etc, but I couldn't justify the extra £100-150 I'd probably have been looking at for the potentially small difference in performance I felt it might have made, hence I went for a '35. Managed to pick up a set of pinks and the turbo for £350 all in.
Last edited by wilbo; 25 November 2011 at 12:55 PM.
27 November 2011, 09:03 AM
#30
I'm near Bracknell, go to the local Berks scoobs meets (and also sometimes Jap meet on the A33).
Up pipe has a slight blow at the moment but once I get that fixed (hopefully will sort it this afternoon), yeah no probs can meet up and do a passenger ride