WIP-SCOOBY

hi just a quick question

iv got a v4 98 turbo 2000 and i was just wondering what sort of gains i would get by fitting a sti intercooler

thanks

Tidgy

dont bother, get a front mount

WIP-SCOOBY

iv been thinkin about it but iv been told there really aint much point in a front mount until about 400bhp

and at the moment its pretty much std

for now any way

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

Are you on the standard turbo? Any future mods planned?

WIP-SCOOBY

yea std turbo at the moment

im looking for a ecu at the moment within budget

iv got a set of 440 injectors waiting to go in and iv got a vf 29 turbo lined up for when i can get a ecu

thats about it for the moment

but im allways looking for suggestions

Tidgy

300 is the key figure, anything over 300 and you'll see a difference, its not all about power figures either. its more about how much you loose through heat top mount you loose alot more than with a front mount

WIP-SCOOBY

300 sounds like a good figure lol

well for the moment ill stick with the std 1 once i can get a ecu and a few other bits ill get hold of a fmic then

midnight

iTrader: (10)

No point on his std td04, fmic not really feasible imho. If he upgrades to a vf29,and a new ecu,he will still not see any major gains with exception to lower intake temps if he fits a front mount.
If the op is on about fitting a sti intercooler off a newage car then depending on how far he wants to go ,it might be worth it .But i think he is referring to a classic sti tmic in which case there is no real difference just slightly bigger cores on the sti unit.

Tidgy

tbh i wasn't assuming standard td04 when i posted. Any intercooler upgrade is a waste if still running the td04.

There will be gains on any turbo bar a td04, and fitting a later model top mount isn't as easy as just bolting it in place, so takign into acount all of that front mount is def the way to go.

midnight

iTrader: (10)

I was told by bob rawle that there was nothing to be gained by fitting a fmic up to 350 bhp.Also fitting a front mount is not a piece of cake and will probably take just as long if not longer to fit than a newage tmic.It will offer lower intake temps than a tmic so it may well be worth while if its what the op wants.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13178997675703

Tidgy

i think it depends if you want it done properly, or bodge it as far as fitment goes lol


there are proven results at 300, iirc i think it was about 10bhp peak (was a test done a while back) so depends how much you wanna throw at it for 10bhp. But its not only about that, top mounts can suffer form heat soak, the air intake for the scoop us pretty small, so even if the intercooler is 10x6 the scoop is only 8x2 limiting flow, then you start looking at air flows and air balooning off the bonnet and not flowing into the scoop making it even worse.


Its a realy bad place to put an intercooler.
personaly front mount all the way, i don't wanna have to worry about heat soak etc etc

midnight

iTrader: (10)

I would agree with you on the fact that sticking the intercooler on the top of the engine is not the ideal place to site it,but it is not as bad as on some tmic cars.The Nissan sunny GTir had its tmic called the "interwarmer",due to the heat soak,and subaru have still gone on to sell a few 100,000's of cars with the intercoller mounted this way. . The bonnet scoop can be made to work better by means of a splitter which allows more air to cover the whole of the intercooler and in help reduce the intake temps down a bit.(zerosports one reduced mycar by 3 degrees)
I have Never had to worry about heatsoak in my old cosworth and up to now the only times i am noticing the tmic becoming hot in my subaru is either when stuck in traffic for a long time or 15 - 20 minutes after i have pulled up after a real spirited drive.

Tidgy

lol, a cooling deviced above the heat producing object is fail, simples lol

midnight

iTrader: (10)

Just saw this quoted by Harvey off another thread, bear in mind the guys std turbo is a vf35 and one would assume that the car is running 305 bhp

quote=harvey;10270787]Do not fit a front mount without a remap. If it is an efficient front mount chances are you will destroy your engine without a remap.



That said, if your car is on the standard turbo you do not need an FMIC until you change turbos. 350 bhp upwards on your car and you start to enter the area where an FMIC will show gains.[/quote

Tidgy

should point out 305 is low for vf35,,,,, lol

but that said depends on situation, i'd go front mount route on anything bar a td04 turbo.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

It may be that I am being quoted out of context earlier in this thread. New Age Cars can do upto 350 bhp (on STi's particularly) with very little gain from changing to an efficient front mount.



However, on an STi 3 or 4 and indeed 5 or 6, by the time you get to 300 plus bhp it is time to think about an efficient front mount. Certainly by 320 bhp.
The actual swap over point for a version 1 or 2 car is probably 280 bhp.
Version 3 - 6 somewhere between 300 and 320 bhp.
New Age cars, generally 350 bhp upwards.
The move to an STi TMIC on a New Age WRX is a waste of time unless you also fit the undertray. Similarly on a Classic you need the undertray. At 380 bhp on the STi New Age TMIC there are good gains moving to an efficient (Hybrid) FMIC. I have the figures to prove all this.
Trying to fit an STi 5 or 6 or New Age STi TMIC to a version 1 or 2 car is a complete waste of time unless you don't mind spending your own time for modest gains, including bashing in the bulk head.
Fitting an STi New Age TMIC to version 3 to 6 cars has very limited benefits for a lot of effort and an efficient FMIC beyond 350 bhp is the way to go on New Age.
Classics running 300-320 bhp should already be looking at an efficient FMIC.
In actual road testing with an STi 3 Wagon, this had ACTs in excess of 70 degrees C, the limit of the guage, on the standard turbo and top mount sprinting from 0-100 mph. An STi 8 top mount with undertray brought the temperatures down into the high 40s or 50C bracket.
At a later date, after further modifications, changing from STi 8 TMIC to Hybrid GT FMIC resulted in a power increase from 392 bhp with the top mount to 401 bhp with the front mount with no other modifications and 410 bhp with mapping. A GT2 may have shown an additional couple of bhp.
ACTs on the rolling road in the Winter were low 20s with the FMIC and with the TMIC immediately before the changeover temperatures were in the 40s (on a colder day).
Without fitting the STi 8 undertray arrangement fitting the STi 8 TMIC was a waste of time whether New Age or Classic and even done properly not the best option.
HTH.