bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Going front mount, but am stumped on what air induction option will fit around the IC feed pipe

I would like the intake heat shielded

So, what ya runnin'?

Pics would be good too

Thanks

Gambit

iTrader: (6)

how about a std airbox? not my car but a fellow member on ScoobyIreland

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...6/DSCF0360.jpg


all depends on what spec your car is though!!

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

What spec do you currently have, what are your power aspirations?

I've got a Simota inner wing cold air induction kit on mine. I've heard some concerns raised about the restriction in size potentially constraining power, but that didn't materialise with mine at the 475bhp level. At this level (and below) I think the supply of nice cold air from the inner wing negates the size advantage of the ones mounted in the engine bay, which gets very toasty; particularly with the 2.5s.

NB If you're getting a FMIC, you'll be getting a remap anyway, but its especially important you do this with a CAIK and keep the car off boost until you do. The maf will need rescaling to accommodate this mod (among other things).

Ns04

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

I'm very happy with the current 315bhp in my MY97 Type R (WRX V-Ltd so has ABS). Only future addition I may make is VF35 so 350 max I would say

EJ20 STi short motor, Simtek, full decat

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Having been there myself mate, I'd go with a K&N 57i

Excellent induction kit. If you can shield it, great, if not, no worries.

My MY99 with a VF35 and supporting mods including a K&N57i (not shielded) made 343bhp.

Ns04

53

iTrader: (41)

57i is ok I guess, but I'd stump for the larger RCM cone and trumpet especially as you are mafless and simtek

Make your own shield 1mm ally sheet took me about an hour

Don't care for bling engine bay, functional FTW maximum shielding and takes the additional air coming in from the bonnet rubber delete

I have since Thermo wrapped the shield with a double layer between header tank and the shield

I realise yours intakes at a different angle but the principle is the same, just need to measure up to see the biggest cone you can squeeze in













Cool as you like

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Thanks, that looks spot on, and a nice job too

Sadly your cone is exactly where my ABS is

53

iTrader: (41)

I junked all the unnecessary from that corner including the I/C water spray and carbon cannister. Mine never had ABS and all the better IMHO

You'd do well to look at Frayz's induction wing cut out, or this is Rossi_P's previous Type R set up

Mine is the same cone



Rossi's

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Because you are on Simtek and thus no MAF my advice is a large cone, trumpet and joiner, all of which will cost around £215 if fitted at the same time as the FMIC.
Subsequently you can do a number of things to encourage cold air into the filter area. If you want to fit some kind of divider I can supply you with carbon fibre which should be insulated with heat blanket on one side. I would not use aluminium as that is an exceptionally good conductor of heat and you need to create a thermal barrier, hopefully with positive air pressure compared to the rest of the engine bay.

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Thanks Harvey. PM replied to

Here's a pic of my engine corner

P1Drifter

iTrader: (7)

Sorry to hijack, Harvey how much is your carbon to make a divider with, really need to do this on my 2.5 PM me if you like

ianbott

What is the big obsession with getting a cold air feed for a turbo engine? Someone correct if I'm wrong but the air fed into the turbo reaches silly temps anyway thus expanding then cooling through the IC and shrinking in volume so surely this heating by the turbo negates the need for a cold air feed?

Cheers Ian.

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Intercooler

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Generally the CF is for our own use. Sending it out and covering wastage is not very attractive.
I buy a big sheet or two at a time so I have to go in the garage, see what is there and work out a price.
Let me know the sheet sizes you need and I will see if this is practical.
Please use e-mail harveysmith1@btopenworld.com

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Ian, I hope this helps. It is basic physics.
The engine wants as much oxygen as possible for best combustion and the more oxygen the more power it can develop.
Cold air is denser than warm or hot air so if the initial injestion of air is cold air there is more oxygen there so more potential for power.
The same is true with altitude. Air at sea level will have more oxygen than air at say 5,000 feet. This matters little in the UK as our highest roads are around 1200 feet but in the Alps or some States of the USA altitude is a serios consideration.

I have never been able to measure the power difference between cold and hot air becuse I do not have the right test gear or accurate enough to do it but many people have noticed their car goes very well on sharp cold days and less well at the hight of a warm summer day. I know from mapping on my own cars that the car is more willing on a cold day than on a hot day.

In recent times I have come to the conclusion that an adquate size of filter and relatively short inlet tract probably have a bigger effect than cold air as opposed to warm air (not hot) The objective is to have no pressure depression or vacum in the inlet tract as the turbo has to work against this, hence the use of a large filter and relatively short inlet tract.

In no way do I want to detract from New Scooby 04s result of 475 bhp with a CAK and Simota filter. Great achievement. I have no idea how big the Simota filter is but one of the problems with CAKs is the difficulty to get a sufficiently large efficient filtering filter in the inner wing. Then there is the length of inlet tract. I would be happy to be proven wrong but I suspect that a cold air divider, large cone and short trumpet would show a measurable power gain after mapping.

It is very much a case of every little bit that helps adds up to a worthwhile gain eg reducing under bonnet temps heat wrapping the turbo hot side and so on.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

This was an early divider using carbon fibre and heat blanket.
Not pretty but it was very effective and subsequent incarnations had
better trim at the top which actually sealed on the underbonnet surface.


Air was encouraged in to the cold air section from the bottom gill at the indicator,
through a large hole in the inner wing, under the bonnet above the headlight and
metal work was removed to the outside of the intercooler core to help the
frontal air pressure relieve into the cold segregated area.


The logic here was that the low pressure on top of the bonnet would encourage cold air
through the segregated cold air area.


No idea why that is there. Uploaded wrong photograph but the purpose of the
rubber matting along the top of the FMIC/radiator and down both sides of the
gap between the radiator and FMIC core running vertically, is to ensure that
any air coming through the intercooler core has to go through the radiator.
Several little alterations like this can make a big difference.


If you want to get the power out you need a big filter and short inlet tract of
adeqate diameter and as straight as possible.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I wish I measured it now!!! From memory it was smaller than a K&N 57i David would know - might be worth an E-mail?

They are a pain in the *** to fit in there though especially on a Hawk..... even worse when you've got to put a oil cooler and associated pipework in front of the car too!

I'm sure that there would come a point, however, where the cold air vs size of filter trade off happens, we just didn't find it at my level! I recall Bob commenting that the car was breathing very well.

Would be an interesting experiment to try both and see what came out best at different levels.

Ns04

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I have tried to contact David but he is away until Tuesday. I agree it would be very interesting if we could fit a big cone and short trumpet and measure the difference. If your CAK turns out to be better which I doubt (forgive my dye in the wool experience) I am very interested to copy it.
I can provide the labour and the filter and trumpet but we need someone with a reliable rolling road to give us the facility to test or alternatively the mapper (Bob) to look at each setup and determine which works best.

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Here's a variation on 53WRX's. This engine bay has an ABS block too which was my stumbling block. Don't know what cone he's used, but looks similar to the RCM

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Have look on mine,maybe help
I'm using RCM big cone with 76mm elbow hose(at moment i'm running OE ECU and MAF,but in future Syvecs will replace OE ECU)



Jura

biggazvr6

iTrader: (8)

I run a carbon 76mm CDA type air box (cylindrical carbon type) One end is connected to laterals silicone inlet via a 45• bend, and the other end is connected to a heavy duty flexible hose fed by a custom trumpet that's been smoothed in my wing. It keeps air intake tract short, solid and the air cool, as I believe that carbon is a good insulator.

Gaz

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for your input. Haven't seen one of those before, so had to google it.

Got a pic of your installation?

biggazvr6

iTrader: (8)

If you go on my photo bucket, biggaz1984@hotmail.co.uk or biggazvr6 and go on Scooby then to now album, there pics on there of me doing the mod mate. It fits in neat and does the job

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Can you put some photos of this on here.
Sounds interesting.

If the green filter above was a K+N it would be rated at 400 bhp.

Bonesetter : What photos do you want. I have posted an early cold air divider above. Let me know what you want.

Always remember that brake pipes can easily be bent and it is not a big job to alter the location of the ABS block by a couple of inches.
Also the silicon dog leg can be rotated to adjust its direction.

biggazvr6

iTrader: (8)

Harvey,
Here are some pics for you to have a butchers at pal.
Regards
Gaz

Before














This seems to work fine on my setup and is in no way restrictive. Some people have had issues with the flexi hose squashing under heavy boost. im guessing its because they have used inadequate hosing. that is why i went for heavy duty reinforced flexi and ive kept it bunched together as the pic show to keep it at its maximum strength.

Gaz

stevep360

iTrader: (20)

Did you paint the front mount?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Thanks Gaz. A picture tells a thousand words.
If you put a lip on the rear external air flute in the wing it will force air in to your system so you have a positive feed.
You have what looks like a BMC filter. I think you refer to it as CDA. What power are you producing?

biggazvr6

iTrader: (8)

Harvey,

The trumpet is mounted with the back edge slightly further out than the front to create this effect. CDA and BMC same idea, only I think CDA is viewed more as a toy out of the two as they are plastic outer casing rather than the Bmc carbon one. Mine seems spot on.
Pic tells a thousand words, is that good or bad?
I'm running a md321t, 20% meth mix 1.65 bar boost on a 2.5 and I don't have any issues what so ever.

Gaz

biggazvr6

iTrader: (8)

Yes mate I painted my logo on there.
Gaz

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Not sure Gaz,but i've run this one(CDA)on mine with TD04 and i've made just 260bhp,after we are swap for HKS Suction we are made 270bhp..


Jura