fitting fmic do i need remap?
20 June 2011, 11:54 PM
#1
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fitting fmic do i need remap?
i have a 95 wrx import.it has a tdo5 turbo,walbro fuel pump,full decat exhaust,z4 ecu,avc-r boost controller.as far as looking at it dont no if its had anything else added as not checked it over proper,going to fit a fmic so do i need a remap?its just that there are so many opinions on needing a map,and dont realy have the funds at the moment for a remap aswell,as just come out of work,so would it be safe to still use the car without a remap as its my daily car,any help.thanks ste
21 June 2011, 01:55 AM
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If you get a front mount go for a good one dont buy ebay c..p they are a waste of money, I hear Harvey on here is the man to speak to for front mount that works.
if you are not planning on more than 400bhp then stick with a good top mount like a new age STI one, there are guides on how to fit on here if you search for it,
front mount and no remap = more turbo lag
if you are not planning on more than 400bhp then stick with a good top mount like a new age STI one, there are guides on how to fit on here if you search for it,
front mount and no remap = more turbo lag
21 June 2011, 09:45 AM
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Having driven both FMIC and TMIC the difference in lag is almost non- existant.
If you are not planning on a remap then at the very least have a rolling road session so the AFR can be checked. Otherwise you have no way of telling if you are going to do some serious damage.
If you are not planning on a remap then at the very least have a rolling road session so the AFR can be checked. Otherwise you have no way of telling if you are going to do some serious damage.
21 June 2011, 10:08 AM
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FMIC needs a remap. End of!! Any reputable Subaru specialist will tell you that!
You can drive the car off boost until it's mapped, but if you drive it on boost, you run the risk of engine damage!
Ns04
You can drive the car off boost until it's mapped, but if you drive it on boost, you run the risk of engine damage!
Ns04
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21 June 2011, 02:16 PM
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I see the HSE are off again.
My 1993 ran 281bhp with mods, no remap, just a generic ST chip. Confirmed on a RR, AFR was good throughout.
Was it MickyWRX who did the same on a Z4 ecu? That one made even bhp, RR'ed, and confirmed to be fine.
Obviously if a remap had been done then these figures could have been better. My point is that a remap is not the be all and end all although if you want the absolute best from your mods then go get one done.
At the very least you will have to have it checked over on a RR.
My 1993 ran 281bhp with mods, no remap, just a generic ST chip. Confirmed on a RR, AFR was good throughout.
Was it MickyWRX who did the same on a Z4 ecu? That one made even bhp, RR'ed, and confirmed to be fine.
Obviously if a remap had been done then these figures could have been better. My point is that a remap is not the be all and end all although if you want the absolute best from your mods then go get one done.
At the very least you will have to have it checked over on a RR.
21 June 2011, 02:20 PM
#10
But it's remepped for saftey (as well as power/torque gains).
The very least, it should be rolling roaded to check AFR's (as you did). But a remap is much preferable, as a competent/responsible mapper will optimise the performance vs. det. threshold envelope - i.e. you'll get more bang for your buck, and safely.
But to fit one and not check AFRs (or remap), certainly would be a "Russian Roulette" thing to do. Just because your AFRs happened to be okay across the board, doesn't mean that'd be the case for everyone's set-up.
To be fair to you, you did qualify that in your last sentence.
The very least, it should be rolling roaded to check AFR's (as you did). But a remap is much preferable, as a competent/responsible mapper will optimise the performance vs. det. threshold envelope - i.e. you'll get more bang for your buck, and safely.
But to fit one and not check AFRs (or remap), certainly would be a "Russian Roulette" thing to do. Just because your AFRs happened to be okay across the board, doesn't mean that'd be the case for everyone's set-up.
To be fair to you, you did qualify that in your last sentence.
Last edited by joz8968; 21 June 2011 at 02:27 PM.
21 June 2011, 06:41 PM
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*gets pipe*
This is what I say to anyone who asks this question
I'm wrong, you get a remap costing hundreds that will make your car run better with the mods fitted irrespective of whether you'd have killed the engine otherwise
The "You'll be ok brigade" are wrong, your engine dies, you're out thousands to rebuild it, and I bet you no one who told you you'd be ok will chip in!
It's a no brainer. Sorry, but it really is!!
This is what I say to anyone who asks this question
I'm wrong, you get a remap costing hundreds that will make your car run better with the mods fitted irrespective of whether you'd have killed the engine otherwise
The "You'll be ok brigade" are wrong, your engine dies, you're out thousands to rebuild it, and I bet you no one who told you you'd be ok will chip in!
It's a no brainer. Sorry, but it really is!!
21 June 2011, 06:50 PM
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the fmic is designed to deliver more denser air ie your car will be running leaner and as we all know lean means more heat and more heat means more chance of engine damage, the remap will correct any fuelling issues ensuring you are not running lean,.for the sake of £550 for a esl board and a map its really is a no brainer
21 June 2011, 09:54 PM
#16
*gets pipe*
This is what I say to anyone who asks this question
I'm wrong, you get a remap costing hundreds that will make your car run better with the mods fitted irrespective of whether you'd have killed the engine otherwise
The "You'll be ok brigade" are wrong, your engine dies, you're out thousands to rebuild it, and I bet you no one who told you you'd be ok will chip in!
It's a no brainer. Sorry, but it really is!!
This is what I say to anyone who asks this question
I'm wrong, you get a remap costing hundreds that will make your car run better with the mods fitted irrespective of whether you'd have killed the engine otherwise
The "You'll be ok brigade" are wrong, your engine dies, you're out thousands to rebuild it, and I bet you no one who told you you'd be ok will chip in!
It's a no brainer. Sorry, but it really is!!
Take the advice of those who advise safety, never mind the HSE mockers.
21 June 2011, 10:16 PM
#17
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can of worms
should of kept my mouth shut with this question.on the other hand spoke to a guy a scoobyclinic and he said it would be ok to fit the fmic and then put it on the rolling road,to check its all ok,with the fueling ect,so would this be ok till i get an ecu,that can be mapped.ste
21 June 2011, 10:18 PM
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if its fuelling ok then there will be no issues, but the fmic is designed to get more air in so you will need more fuel to correct the fuelling
21 June 2011, 10:45 PM
#21
Lol, personally I would remap for such a mod but on a standard car the size of the intercooler wouldn't require a remap given the richness of most standard maps. A simple AFR run would determine whether any further changes were required, something a mapper would do anyway before changing anything ! 
As for 'more' air, not quite the whole story but yes I get what you mean.
The problem in most cases is all the associated mods which do require major AFR changes for safety and value for money from the mods fitted.
All of this assumes a car in good mechanical condition, cars that fail that aren't mapped are usually run by people that can't or won't afford the basics that reduce the likelihood of failure. Never underestimate the importance of frequent and good quality oil, coolant etc.....
Then they realise that after fitting all these mods they forgot the plugs and coilpacks that now seem to be failing under increased boost
Cut corners and you'll run into trouble, but remaps aren't always needed for small changes beyond an experienced eye over the AFR etc.
As for 'more' air, not quite the whole story but yes I get what you mean. The problem in most cases is all the associated mods which do require major AFR changes for safety and value for money from the mods fitted.
All of this assumes a car in good mechanical condition, cars that fail that aren't mapped are usually run by people that can't or won't afford the basics that reduce the likelihood of failure. Never underestimate the importance of frequent and good quality oil, coolant etc.....
Then they realise that after fitting all these mods they forgot the plugs and coilpacks that now seem to be failing under increased boost
Cut corners and you'll run into trouble, but remaps aren't always needed for small changes beyond an experienced eye over the AFR etc.
22 June 2011, 01:56 PM
#22
should of kept my mouth shut with this question.on the other hand spoke to a guy a scoobyclinic and he said it would be ok to fit the fmic and then put it on the rolling road,to check its all ok,with the fueling ect,so would this be ok till i get an ecu,that can be mapped.ste
When I was changing from STi8 TMIC we did a run. 392 bhp and no matter what we did that was the top figure and on the edge. ACTs were mid 45C. Hybrid GT, tube and fin was fitted and we ran it up on the same rollers quite gingerly. 401 bhp straight out the box without any alterations apart from FMIC kit. We then mapped and brought it back to a very safe 410 bhp and acts mid 20s from memory on a slightly warmer day.
The first run after fitting the FMIC was brief as the car needed a load more fuel and EGT soared over 930C which I never allow in normal running. I guess that without a remap it was only a matter of time before I picked up a piston in the bore or did valve damage.
Regardless, without a remap you do not get the benefit of your expenditure on an FMIC.
Last edited by harvey; 22 June 2011 at 02:00 PM.
22 June 2011, 08:30 PM
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I know a couple of people who have made 300 bhp safely...
If you aren't chasing big power then a relatively cheap FMIC isn't going to push your engine over the edge, assuming it is healthy at the moment.
All the air consumed is metered by the MAF, so the quantity and boost pressure produced are known variables, given a modest decrease in charge air temperature, the resulting density is likely to be close to the std. value.
All in my humble opinion.
dunx
P.S. Mine ran fine, but made 40 bhp more after the re-map, without using any more fuel... win + win =
If you aren't chasing big power then a relatively cheap FMIC isn't going to push your engine over the edge, assuming it is healthy at the moment.
All the air consumed is metered by the MAF, so the quantity and boost pressure produced are known variables, given a modest decrease in charge air temperature, the resulting density is likely to be close to the std. value.
All in my humble opinion.
dunx
P.S. Mine ran fine, but made 40 bhp more after the re-map, without using any more fuel... win + win =
23 June 2011, 07:25 PM
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Sorry to hijack but just a quick one on tipic. I have a 1997 wrx which had the following on it when I brough it so am I to take it this is not good news as only running a std ecu?
hdi 4" front mount intercooler
hks bov
hks evc boost controller
cat back hayward and scott exhaust
Fuel cut defender.
running 1.1 low boost and 1.2 high
I have no idea who, how, if or when it was set up?
hdi 4" front mount intercooler
hks bov
hks evc boost controller
cat back hayward and scott exhaust
Fuel cut defender.
running 1.1 low boost and 1.2 high
I have no idea who, how, if or when it was set up?
Last edited by coops1; 23 June 2011 at 07:29 PM.
23 June 2011, 09:17 PM
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