spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Hi guys, hoping i could get some advice. Ive got a 96 type ra which im looking to track/sprint next year and i want to buy a oil cooler and thermostatic sandwich plate for it. I wud be looking at a 19 row mocal or similar, Will i need a filter relocation kit or not? Also where would be the best/cheapest place to buy from? Any help /advice/experience would be much appreciated. tim.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi matey try Think Automotive(if you are close to Think automotive,you will get 20% discount),i have now Setrab Proline Oil Cooler and Mocal transmission cooler...
Highly recommend Think Automotive and these guys in Think will help with choice

http://www.thinkauto.com/index.html

spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Hi, thanx for the reply. I hav spoke to think automotive and got a quote for £348. Which i thought was abit steep to be honest. Dont know what you guys think? TIM.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmm think on a classic I would be looking at the brakes more than an oil cooler for basic track work the car should be ok, a better tmic or fmic is more advisable and an uprated oil pump and any kind of anti surge for your fuel which normally causes the biggest issues.
Also look at gauges/KS3/Knocklink (though I find the ks3 easier) to see if your car is blowing itself to bits.

Tony

spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Hi, yeh ive got a harvey smith front mount intercooler, prodrive td05 turbo, yellow injectors, cosworth baffle plate, turbo heat jacket, heat wrapped pipework/exhaust, 8pot callipers and 358mm discs, and modded oil pump, bc coilovers, 4 gauges, oil temp,water,oil pressure and boost, full cage and stripped out interior. Oil cooler was next on the list followed by some whiteline suspension goodies. Just looking for advice and best place to buy. Cheers tim.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Yep i last time has been visited and got quote around same price,but with 20% discount is good price,but i know Think automotive have in stock slightly lower model for 249£(standard Mocal oil cooler)
I recommend you visit and try luck(online price is different and no 20% discount).

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi matey here SN member prodriverules selling Mocal oil cooler
https://www.scoobynet.com/private-fo...ich-plate.html

spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Thanx for that, hav pm'd him.

spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Has anyone else got any advice on oil coolers, etc. tim.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Tim my temp was before around 90-95c(hard driving) or 100c(motorway),after fitting the Oil cooler now i have around 82-83c(motorway driving at 90mph),88c(hard driving)
Here is few links for Mocal
http://www.advancedautomotives.com/s...-kit-310-p.asp
http://www.advancedautomotives.com/s...ines-325-p.asp
http://www.scoobyprojects.co.uk/shop...acturers_id=21

Splitpin

Yes. The most important advice is to positively establish the need for one before you fit it, as if you don't need it, aside from wasting money they have the potential to do more harm and hassle than good, thermo plate or not.

You haven't told us about the engine's state of tune (yet) but the bottom line is that the OE oil temp management system is pretty good and you need to be doing quite a bit to push it beyond its limits.

If you haven't already done so, you need to fit an oil temp gauge, there is no point at all fitting a cooler without knowing firstly whether it's necessary, and secondly what size cooler you need.

If you've got one, and regularly see it reading over 120 celsius when you're driving flat out, then start thinking about how big. If you never see it go over 110, no matter how hard you push the car, leave it as it is.

Don't forget that the standard oil/water modine dumps heat from the oil into the main liquid cooling system. As such, if you're tracking, you'll have plenty of fresh air through the radiator and engine bay, and as such, again, horsepower dependent, it takes quite a bit to outdo the capabilities of the standard system. If you're sprinting, your average speeds are likely to be lower so less air through the rad, and here there may be more of a need. Again though with mods like this it is much better to establish the need and then modify, rather than work on the basis of an assumption that may be totally incorrect.

Splitpin

With the best will in the world, those numbers are perfect justification for my previous post. Your "before" temps aren't anywhere near hot enough to justify additional oil cooling measures. If anything an oil temp of 82-83 is probably too cold, especially if you've removed the modine and as a result coolant temps drop below 80.

The extra cooler you've fitted is giving no net benefit, and, aside from the increased hassle involved in feeding fresh oil through the system during a change, aside from lengthening intial warm-up, if your system isn't thermostatically isolated you have probably inadvertently increased the chances of your engine dying a premature death due to oil starvation at and immediately after start. If you're not sure what I mean by that, try searching Harvey's or my posting histories with "oil cooler" as the search query and you'll find the thread.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Splitpin in traffic i've seen before 106-110c(now i've see around 95-100c) and again my 4EAT Bugeye don't have before fitted modine oil cooler(this is confirmed by Neil@Slowboy Racing in Kent)...
And is this cooler has been fitted by Neil@Slowboy Racing and i think is thermostatically isolated...

spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Hi guys thanx for the input, much appreciated! Im gonna be doing a mix of track work and sprinting. The sprinting i feel wouldnt be a problem on the standard oil cooler, but im worried about the track work bcoz of more prolonged use. The car when remapped should be good for 330-350. Ive got a friend with a similar sort of scooby who has seen mega temps on track work with the standard set up. Hes since gone fully forged with a 19 row mocal and it runs a lot cooler!! I cant afford the forged route at the moment so just trying to make the best of what ive got. Hope this makes sense. tim.

Splitpin

Yep as above, if all you got to in traffic was 110c, in no way did you need an oil cooler on this car, whether it had a modine or not.

That's likely not to be the way it turns out in practice. "Prolonged use" can be a bit of a red herring because, as above, if your use is "prolonged", and high speed, you are getting an equally prolonged quantity of air going through your radiator and engine bay to suck the heat out. Heat is more difficult to get rid of when you're driving it flat out at relatively low average speeds - like in gravel rallying, for example. The lower the speed, the less efficient the cooling system is.

What is/was "mega" in actual numbers?

Makes perfect sense. As above, the first thing you need to do here is establish and quantify a need on your car before you jump - especially when as you say yourself money is something you haven't got unlimited quantities of. Gauges first is the most logical and pragmatic way forward - because you're going to need them anyway if you're going to be pushing the car.

spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Hi splitpin, thanx for the sound advice. Like you said i dont want to go and spunk money for the sake of it. I hav all the gauges fitted and ready to roll. Was just concerned with tracking as apposed to sprinting as a sprinting run takes 1min ish as against been out on track for 30mins at a time and giving it some beans, more than likely in summer too. I can see and appreciate what your saying about air flow through intercooler/rad and engine bay. But im still abit un sure, like you said maybe i should just keep my eye on temps etc on the first outing, and go from there. Anyone had experience with tracking cars similar to mine? And what kind of problems hav you encounterd? Just want to avoid any major mistakes and try avoid any damage or wasting money. thanx again for the input. tim.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

when i first bought my car it had an oil cooler fitted and tbh i thought the oil ran a little too cold,but on an outing one day one of the pipes burst and sprayed oil all over the red hot exhaust manifold which set the car alight.luckily i had a fire extinguisher with me and managed to get it out.ever since that day i have run the car without the oil cooler and just kept my eye on the oil temps.in fast road driving it has never gone above 110deg,when doing sprints at elvington it never goes any higher than 105deg.i did cadwell park the other week and after a full day of giving it hell,only a couple of times did the oil temp go to 115deg at which point i just backed off a little till it dropped.i think the next track day i do i will fit the oil cooler back on just to be safe but for everthing else it will be removed.

spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Thanx for ur input, very intresting that. Hope you didnt do to much damage with the fire. Thankfully ive go a fully plumbed in fire system,its a ex rally car!! Hopefully never to be used!!! tim.

Splitpin

I wouldn't, especially given your prior (almost incendiary ) experience. There is a lot of unnecessary (and counterproductive) caution floating around this subject. Even 115 isn't "bad" as far as oil is concerned, it's designed to work at those sort of temps without issue. VAG vehicles fitted with oil temp gauges tend to have red lines that start at 130, to give you an indication.

jimbo14prodrive

well i was in the same boat thinking id need a cooler on mine, did a 20 min session at cadwell park and also give it hell and only saw my oil temp rise to 100c after about 15 mins so did 1 easy lap and the standard cooler took temps back down to bout 85c, come to the conclusion i really didnt need one so i`d save yourself the money mate

Ian

iTrader: (10)

as it been getting abit cooler, and on a m-way run, i was just getting over 80 degc, i have taped half of the oil cooler so no air can pass through it, and it has increased the temps by about 5-8 degc

WhiteWagonMan

iTrader: (34)

Thought about fitting an oil cooler to mine a while back now as it started to climb in power after each additional mod i fitted,but after many hours researching them myself and being told by many at the top of there game like JGM,harvey smith,pat herborn but to name just a few,that they are not needed on a road based car and it will do more harm than good running with one.
For one we just dont have the weather temps in the uk to warrant it as its cold more than its hot(AS IM SURE WE ALL KNOW WITH THE WEATHER WE HAVE RIGHT NOW)therefore the oil in cooler months will never get up to optimum operating temp unless you`ve been driving for a long time,which is obviousley bad for the car,and also means you cant drop the hammer until it does rise,which is bad for you.

A track car is of coarse totally different as its put under extreme punishment regularly.