Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

Hi guys,

Just want some advice for the people whom have already done this to their impreza's

Im wanting to change all the copper pipe with braided line (just found a supplier that will do custom pipes for me at a really good price)

Anyway, fronts are pretty easy as i will just follow the copper pipes, but the rear, have everyone just followed the path of the rear, or drilled a new hole in the rear wheel arch for the new lines?

Would it be best to follow the rear pipe (as it drops above the fuel tank, then down and across of the top of the rear cross member then around back on its self and into the carrier where it meets the rubber brake line.

Now i was thinking about just drilling a new hole in the wheel arch (which then goes into the cabbin of the car) and run the pipe from the Master Cylinder into the cabin, to the bios valve then into the rear of the car and to a T-piece then off into each of the holding brackets then from there to the caliper

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

ive not heard of anyone have a complete braided system> I would have thought that would give a horrible pedal feel as there still only rubber underneath the braiding.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Why????

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

Seen some of the lads in the Clio cup cars run this setup and it got me thinking. Thought it would have given a better pedal and looks a lot neater then copper pipe

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

copper wont flex or expand at all, Braided will

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

Just replacing the floppy flexi's with HEL or BF Goodridge ss braided items is the usual mod mate, got it on mine, nice firm pedel. With the money you save get some 4 pots on the front with all new DOT 5.1 fluid, much better benifits that fitting braided right through

As TT says really

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

I dunno how true any of the above is, as i was at a race meeting today, and ALL the cars i looked in had braided hoses through out the whole brake system... here's one i took of in a Saxo (not a good picture but you can see its braided to a T-Peice then off into each of the rear calipers)



So there must be some sort of gain of doing this

scooby_al

iTrader: (3)

Less fragile is the only thing I can think of?

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

And easyer to work with too i suppose

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

Already have 4 pots up front (Girling Jag Calipers) running Fereddo Racing Pads with drilled and grooved disks, and running 5.1 fluid

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

More asteticly pleasing and obviously corrosion resistent. Makes sense in a race/show car, can't see any performance gains unless the bore makes a difference and perhaps a larger/upgraded master cylinder (which i suppose a race spec car would have).

It's a must on these early Classics, if like mine there is no ABS either. First mod i did .

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

I removed the ABS on mine and added a adjustable bias valve (but its under the bonnet so i want to relocate that into the cabin) which was the main reason of thinking to use braided hose through out the car....

My reasoning is that it would be easier to use this then using copper pipe as it will be running on the inside of the car near the hand break and allow be to easily mount it where i want, instead of trying to bend some copper pipe into the shape i want and manage to get it through the hole in the bulk head.

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

In that case fair do's, go for it.

You got any idea on costs?

It would be a very low or even maintainance free system, which can only be a bonus .

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

£6 a meter for the hose (thats from Motorscope in Northallerton), plus your connectors... so looking at around 60 quid i would say from them... there are a couple of other places that do braided stuff around me so might pop in and get a quote from them.

I'm just trying to measure up with string the ammount I need at the min, got a little diagram that I'll upload in what im thinking about doing, and then i need to figure out where to take the house out of the cabin to the outside of the car

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

That's not a bad price

I might go for this before my next MOT, it's just failed on the o/s/f so the rest will not be far behind (17 1/2 years old now). So yes, keep us posted, very interested to see how you get on .

Splitpin

What makes you so sure there's a gain? It may be nothing other than the approach you yourself are adopting - that just because one person does it, the others all think it must be a good thing and copy it without stopping to think whether or not it's the best way forward. Half of the myths formed on Scoobynet dissemanate the same way!

In the final analysis Turbotits is correct. Braided rubber hose has a lot more give in it than hard brake line. If you're re-doing yours, under ideal circumstances you'd use solid brake line where you can and flexible only where you absolutely need it, irrespective of what some donk in a Saxo has done.

If you are going to run your own lines, you're preparing an out and out track car and don't mind the work involved,, you may as well drill through the arch rather than stick with the (unnecessarly convoluted and long) factory layout.

Incidentally...

I'm always a little perplexed when I see people on here recommending "DOT5.1" fluid for these cars. It's almost like they think that 5.1 is > 4 and therefore inherently better or something like that. The bare specs may indicate the above but in practice there are notable exceptions to the rule.

In reality the best fluids for high performance/high temperature brake application (i.e. Motul RBF600/Castrol SRF/AP 600 etc) are all DOT4 rated.

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

Wasnt just a Saxo, the whole lot pretty much had braided hoses through out the car, including Clio Cup spec car's, and racing Porsche's - The Saxo was the only one I thought I would take a picture of as it was pretty much the only car there where the driver wasnt sat in the car.

Yea i had a closer look at the factory layout of the brake lines and I dont know what they were thinking

Changed the brake fluid tonight from 5.1 to Motul 4.1 stuff, so will see what difference i notice on Sunday


I dont know what to do now - just had a read on here and its 50/50 as is on here:
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...lid-vs-Braided

Some say brakes are fine, others say it takes a bit more travel on the pedal before anything happens, but then they are quite sharp.

Hmm, I suppose i have some copper pipe left over, but braided stuff looks better and easier to route around the car.... Suppose the pros and con's are like 50/50...

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

Dont forget my car is just for track use only, so will not be seeing a road again.

FB Tuning

iTrader: (30)

Looking at your picture of the Saxo in post #7, it's predominantly copper pipe anyway

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

How so when its all braided from the MC?

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, pro's and con's reading that link Jamz, but it seems in the main, pro's. The lads that fit it, and actully have it fitted are more than pleased with it. I think the only way would be to do it and see how it feels. As i said earlier and is mentioned in the link, uprated/fit master cylinder goes a long way to good performance.

Physics theory and practice... does it 'always' follow? I don't know, i'm not that clever .

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

I think FB is seeing the centre run as copper, just a trick of the light i think .

FB Tuning

iTrader: (30)

Sorry - My eyes must be getting bad, i'll put it down to age

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

There isnt really a uprated MC for the impreza though is there, unless there is any improvements in the newer shape Impreza's? Maybe fitting a newage/hatch MC to a classic?

Or just rip the whole thing out completely and run something like a willwood MC?

Turbotits

iTrader: (2)

For me personally, i dont like the idea of braided all the way through, Regardless of performace which i havent a clue about to be honest, i was merely giving my thoughts

The short rubber pipes on the standard car whether braided or not can split under hard braking when there worn a little. I know of several cars over the years that have blown flexi hoses>

Even worse with braided as there is no way of checking the condition of the rubber underneath the braiding.

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

I'm not sure mate, i remember some one advising a larger reservoir when doing a caliper conversion, but not a MC. Thought you track/race bods might of had some thing you knew/used.

I suppose in your case, starting from scratch is not a problem.


Same as Tt, i have no idea either. But i do like the idea.

Yes, agreed, flexi hoses are vunerable, through ware/damage/age. They are also easily out lived by the copper, which on mine is 17 years old... So i can't even argue the maintainance issue, as you change more flexi's than copper.

However, the HEL braided flexi's that i have fitted have a sealed silicone sleeve, so are totally waterproofed. If that option was available/affordable, surely the only benifit would be, aesthetic.

Jamz_

iTrader: (12)

Think its gonna be one of them things that your just going to have to try and see what its like isnt it

Glowplug

iTrader: (8)

Yeah agreed, the only PITA is, re-running the copper if you don't like it, not so much for a track car though.