scoobydoo turbo

hi there im new to your forum and wondered if anyone can help me ive just bought a td05 turbo 4 my 98 uk impreza and wondered if i can put this on my car without doing any damage? i cant map my car as it is a 3 plug ecu non mappable ive been looking 4 a 3 plug apexi power fc or similar that can be mapped but cant find one and ive been told they are expensive 2, anyone got any ideas plz or no anyone that has got 1 cheap?, i wana get it sorted b4 i get car bk on road(another engine) cheers

bigsinky

erm...no. td05? is this a 16g or 20g. where did you buy it? why did you buy it? your car is not mappable with out a new ecu. ESL daughter board, simtec etc. All of these are going to cost you money.

94 scooby

iTrader: (1)

you should be ok if its from a tdo4 to a tdo5 as a little upgrade but if its a 16g you cant expect alot of power

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

TD05 flows a LOT more air then the piddly TD04.............and will need mapping. A well mapped TD05 with supporting mods is a tough critter and will come close to lunching the drivetrain LOL

Shaun

scoobydoo turbo

yes it is a td04 at the moment and ive got a td05 16g 2 go on, i no it wont be big power just wanted to no if my engine would be safe and run ok

bigsinky

^^^^^what are you serious it's a completely different turbo charger. flows more air, makes more boost and if its a 20G has sh1tload more power. a 16G will make a lot more power than his current 212bhp. this will all need to be mapped properly with a "mappable" ecu, which is going to cost him money.

bigsinky

we have told you ......NO!!!!!! it needs remapped dude. bigger turbo, more air, more power, more boost. if thats not controlled say goodbye to your engine. its not just a straight swap and hope for the best

scoobydoo turbo

i have just bought a wrx engine,loom and z4 ecu 4 it but havent wired this up just wanted to put turbo on instead would it be hard to wire in the wiring loom? and drive train should be ok ive had a sti diff and box fitted, if this is all too hard to do i will just stick with a td04 cos it weren't too bad

bigsinky

mate if you are going to mess about with wiring looms and ecus the you need to know what you are doing. if you dont then leave well alone and take it to a good subaru mechanic. i know this not what you want to hear but believe me paying someone a few hundred quid is better than ******* the job up yourself and wrecking the engine. even if you managed to fit the ecu yourself, your going to need a reputable mapper to map the car safely for you.

scoobydoo turbo

i do have a fair idea wot im doing im not an idiot ive owned my car for 2 years and worked on it many times doing the work myself and i got a friend who is well into subarus his-self and is a mapper, i wanted to no the best ways round it 2 do the job thats why i posted the thread, cheers

robimportwagon

yeah but surely the afm should notice a difference in airflow and make the necessary adjustments by telling the ecu whats being sucked into the engine?? and the lambda sensor will tell the engine if it is running lean or rich so wont that also tell the ecu what adjustments need to be made?? i was always taught that ecu remapping is done in order to get the engine performance to its absoulute maximum ability which is why people recommend a remap after upgrading engine parts in order to get the very best out of them if you knew how i have built my engine you would have a fit i build my engines/vehicles totally different to anyone else and they dont go wrong wether it is a diesel or petrol, car or truck. ecu's of today are very clever and can cater for different variants on an engine which is why they have so many safety features especially on performance cars. i used to have a tdo4 on my scoob when i bought it but in the last two years i have been running with an ihi vf28 and a large tmic with no probs or issues at all so to swap a tdo4 to a tdo5 shouldnt be problem at all from my perspective.

bigsinky

its a 12 year old car mate with a 12 year old ecu. 12 year old afm and 12 year old lamda sensor. i wouldnt take the risk if it was my engine but thats just me.

Splitpin

Erm, this TD05 turbo you've bought. Is it from the same car the engine and Z4 ECU came from? If so the turbo will probably be a right-angle entry one and the engine from a phase 1 car, and therefore not drop-in compatible with your engine, intake tract, wiring loom and so forth.

Under those circumstances it's just as well you have a "fair idea wot you're doing", as you'll need it to make that chimaera work!

Oh, and no, the ECU won't make "necessary adjustments", and the car runs in open loop mode under boost so the lambda sensor won't correct a lean mixture either. If your mate is a "mapper", he would presumably already have told you that.

bigsinky

and i never said you were mate. if you feel confident that you can do the job then fill yer boots. you would be surprised at the number of people who come on here asking how to do jobs or diagnose faults that are way beyond their capabilities and know how, instead of taking it to a good indepenant subaru master technician.

scoobydoo turbo

thanks 4 the advice much appreciated i'll put the td05 on if it blows it blows ive got two spare engines, im putting engine in tommorrow swap a few bits first, cheers again

bigsinky

so sayeth the oracle

scoobydoo turbo

so my best bet is leave it standard then? ive got all the bits and a shame not to use them if possible if not i'll leave it on standard set up

Splitpin

As above, is the turbo a front or right-angle entry unit? If it's right-angle then your whole thread is moot as it won't physically fit an MY98 engine and inlet tract.

Even if it does fit, yes, as you've already been told, dropping in a completely different turbo and expecting it to work properly is about as realistic as dropping a pin into a haystack and being confident about finding it.

ECUs are "very clever", but they are also mapped to run with a tight set of tolerances on given set of hardware. Whoever "taught" you that mapping is an option for best performance rather than an effective necessity clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.

scoobydoo turbo

its a right angle entry turbo, like i said this is why i put up the post to get all your advice and its appreciated thank you, my intake pipe that goes under the inlet manifold to the standard td04 has split anyone no where i can get one from? cheers

purbeck cpl

hi
am fitting a oil pessure gauge to a 04 wrx but dont have a filter sanwich plate is there any other way i can fit this i belive u can get a t piece , instead but where can u get one and where do u fit it
tks kev

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

See my post number 4......the TD04 and TD05 are like chalk and cheese !

I fitted a front entry converted TD05 in place of my TD04 (Andy Forrest) to my MY02 Bugeye with a couple of mods and drove it down to Swindon for Bob Rawle to map

325 BHP plus in the end

While I was driving it down to swindon the idle was OK (I have the much better Denso ECU, you have a JECS ECU) but any sort of boost like joining the motorway down the sliproad and it all went pants with det (Knocklink) and boost all over the place

If I drove it like that all the time without mapping something would break

Shaun

sc_sjo

iTrader: (7)

Based on a couple of assumptions.. I am no Subaru expert..

1) You can get it to physically fit
2) The Subaru strategy uses the MAF as the primary load calculation at full throttle

If both of these are true (perhaps someone could confirm #2):

Then you can run pretty much any turbo you want as long as you don't exceed the maximum airflow the calibration is mapped for. This typically would mean running less boost on the larger turbo to achieve the same peak airflow (and thus power) as the smaller turbocharger. If the ECU is doing the boost control, and is configured to a boost target (in bar/psi), then you would most likely have to do some kind of manual boost control (with a bleed valve or aftermarket boost controller).

Relatively pointless exercise as the larger turbocharger will no doubt have a higher spool threshold than the smaller one, so you end up with a less responsive engine. However you can then get the car remapped at a later date to accommodate the potential of the larger turbocharger.

Just my two beans.

Splitpin

That can be done easily enough, just get the compressor cover converted to front entry and it's sorted.

You're correct about the load input (although, while MAF input is the principal factor, there are other contributors to the calculation). However...

You will "exceed the calibration", that's the point. The standard ECUs have map headers that are closely aligned to the maximal values the car would be expected to generate in standard trim - although they do have a bit of headroom in that the default mixtures are usually quite rich.

As you say, someone running a different turbo could, theoretically, reduce its boost level such that the overall load didn't typically exceed those of the standard setup. Trouble is that the average garage modder has no way of accurately knowing (or calculating) that level - and in any case, the sort of person who shoves a larger turbo on their engine is not likely to be the sort overly predisposed to turning their boost down. Even then, simply reducing the boost pressure would not exactly replicate the running conditions - some of the minor, rate of acceleration maps couldn't be compensated, for example, and you'd typically end up with a cooler charge than the ECU expects too.

At end of day, in practice, there'd be no point doing this. Even if you calculated and applied the boost reduction correctly you'd end up with a car that was worse than before you started. As you say you'd have the lag of the bigger turbo but with the top end performance limitations of the smaller one. There's no upside.

If you're going to get the car mapped, the point to fit the turbo is the day/hours before. If you're not going to get the car mapped, there's no point changing the turbo. That's the bottom line.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I think you got overlooked in the melee.
The oil pressure switch is located just under the alternator. You can fit a "T" piece here, one end for the oil pressure switch and the other end for your oil pressure sender for your guage. Alternatively there is a plug above number 3 cylinder on the block that you can remove to fit your oil pressure sender. Make sure you have the appropriate "T" piece or adaptor before you start the job.

Fitting a TD05 in place of a TD04 is relatively straight forward and a common mod for cars with the smaller turbo. Generally the smaller turbo runs 380cc injectors but the TD05 needs yellow 440cc or even 550cc aftermarket to get the best out of it.
Swapping turbos without a remap as a minimum means that you have a very high probability of causing engine damage because there will be major lean spots, the bigger turbo is moving more air and your boost map is not under control. Some guys seem quite happy to do this sort of thing but what is for sure is that you will not be getting the best out of the turbo or the fuel you put in the car and the solution is an aftermarket ECU such as Apexi, ESL or Simtek. Swap turbos without an aftermarket ECU on your car and you are courting disaster needlessly but it is your choice.