mossi

iTrader: (1)

Well just had the dreaded call from the garage, my impreza 99 developed a misfire, and it seems i now have no compression in piston 2.. he started reeling off the costs to repair, and it went above 2k so thats out of the questions, what i need to know now is what a recon guarenteed engine will cost, or whether to sell the car as is.. it starts and runs at the moment, but obviously lumpy due to no compression in piston 2, the garage reckons the mafs prob failed and caused this piston to either melt or hole..

how much would a engine complete cost ? he quoted me 450 to remove mine and fit new engine..

how much is my car worth, its a 99 plate impreza turbo, dark metalic blue, with gold subaru wheels, sti airbox, st steel exhaust cat bat, good tyres, good blue leather interior, engine was supplied and fitted by api only 32k miles ago .. at a cost of around 3k that was new engine, new clutch, new turbo and new flywheel..

bugger bugger bugger.. ive had 3 imprezas and never had any probs, allways read horror stories of how much peeps say they cost to run.. now i see why .. just bad luck i guess.

thanks

bigsinky

could you not take it to david at API to find out why the engine failed?

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

MAFs are notorious on MY99s. One on the fritz usually means lean running and then pop goes your piston.

Proper rebuild will cost 2.5k plus

Recon engine usually significantly cheaper, but finding a guaranteed one with a guarantee that's worth the paper it's printed on will be hard. If it goes pop then you're out of pocket.

Personally, I'd be inclined to either save up for a proper rebuild and switch to a mafless ECU such as Simtek or sell up.

Ns04

Tidgy

as NS40 says, but you'll get about £1200 ish for the shell if you find the right buyer.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Save up and repair it. You know you want to

BTW: did it have an induction kit, or VTA dumpvalve fitted?

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

We can probably [ probably ] get you going with just a piston fitted. Plus gaskets and so-on. It'll be a better bet than a ' recon ' engine from one of the Ebay / internet shysters.

Call me to talk through the options is if you wish. Mapping today, so Thursday will give me more time

David APi

mossi

iTrader: (1)

Hi David,

Thanks, its certanly worth the call to you, you actually fitted this with the engine it currently has back in 2004 for the previous owner after he killed it completlt, engine, turbo, clutch & flywheel , now covered 32k since then..


cheers

Splitpin

Ouch. Not one of those times that it's nice to be proved right, but it did have that feeling about it when you were posting about the symptoms last year.

David's suggestion, provided the bore is still in good nick and the damage is isolated to #2, should get you going at minimal cost, and on a better footing than shoving in a secondhand engine of unknown providence from the kind of source he mentions. However you've clearly been driving the car for some months with this problem getting worse, so what sort of state the bore is actually in, and to what, if any, extent the other three have suffered, remains to be seen.

May prove to be that a (good!) replacement short engine would be a better bet - the only way to know is to strip it and look.

The one thing you do need to do is to find out as accurately as you can what the mode of failure was otherwise there's a significant danger of repeating it. The guesses of some of the bandwaggon jumpers in this thread are well-meaning but don't exactly help. Part of the reason why your engine is as badly damaged as it is is because when you first noticed it smoking on startup, some random told you that it was "probably the turbo oil seals" and so you clearly carried on driving the car and "having fun" in it - despite someone else raising the possibility of piston damage.

That might be true, but it might not be, and as above, part of the reason why you're in the sh*t now is because you went forward on the basis of someone else's guess, even to the point of changing the turbo to cure the "oil seals problem".

This might be caused by a failing airflow meter. Or it might be that this was a contributor, along with other factors - to what happened. It might also be that the airflow sensor is fine and that the cause is elsewhere. There isn't much point driving the car again until you know (rather than guess) what caused it to fail this time.

Going back through your posting history a bit, there are a couple of points of confusion that you probably want to clear up in order to ensure you know where you are.

For example in one thread you say that the car hasn't been remapped - that you had a PPP ECU in it but went back to "standard". However in an earlier thread you say you found a receipt for an EcuTeK remap in with the paperwork that came with the car.

Is this TeK ECU the one in the car now? If so, did the remap predate the previous engine rebuild, or was it carried out afterwards? Was the map carried out prior to the intercooler being changed, or the car being decatted? If I was working on your engine I'd want to find answers to questions like that as they potentially explain what may or may not have gone wrong.

One of the practical realities of any remap is that it reduces safety margins, particularly with airflow measurement - were you running any form of AFR or knock monitoring in the car prior to the failure? If your airflow meter was on its way out, either of those will have clued you in to a problem early. Do you have anything like this and did it, in hindsight, give you any clues?

Similarly, if you've got isolated damage in #2, but the other three are pristine, this would point in the direction of something like a clogged or defective injector (or wiring loom to it, or possibly a defective ECU) as being more likely than a broken MAF. Indeed the fact that it's #2 itself mitigates against a damaged airflow sensor to a degree, as you'd normally expect #3 to be the first to buy it.

If I were working on your car, among the first things I'd be doing would probably be getting the injectors checked, testing the airflow meter properly, and checking whether or not the ECU is running standard maps. Oh and I'd probably be ordering you a knock monitor, if you don't already have one.

Incidentally, does your current MAF sensor have a bright green stripe, and a white date code, on its mounting flange?

Again, while it's not nice to be able to say "told you so", it was suggested that assuming in December that this problem was just "turbo oil seals" might be a mistake and that it'd be worth having the car diagnosed. It's probably worth saying for the benefit of future readers that the one thing this process proves is that it's far better to get to the bottom of problems like this quickly and accurately, when you first become aware of them, than carrying on driving on the basis of assumption. The bill's invariably smaller.

Give David a ring - all will become clearer from there

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

^^^ He's done his homework on you!! ^^^

Splitpin

Not so much doing homework as remembering what I'd said before, unfortunately.

mossi

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the helpfull advice .. with regards to the remapped ecu this was all done prior to the 2nd engine it had, it looks like the guy before me had it mapped and spent around 1500 to get it running quick with increased bhp, only to find some few thousand miles later it destroyed itself ! taking the turbo,flywheel,and clutch with it, what was replaced by API was the engine, cluth , flywheel and turbo, the ecu was also changed back to std at this point.. I had run it myself with the PPP on it, but decided after a few months to revert back to the std ECU as its plenty powerfull for me at this level..
I cant comment on the stripes of the MAF sensor as unfortunately the cars now at the local garage in bits, I will more than likely have to ask them to rebuild the bits they took off for the compression test so i can take it away and park it at work untill I decide which way to go, repair, rebuild or sell..
I wasnt running any form of AFR or knock monitoring in the car prior to the failure, I had no idea such bits existed, or if id heard of them didnt understand what they did... i love my scoobys and do enjoy driving them, but I dont know a lot about how they run, why they stop etc..
Never did get to change the damn turbo, the day i picked it up was the day piston #2 let go...

So im still in that do i , dont i zone, the cars value isnt that great, so if any repairs go over 1500 then I have to seriously ask is it worth it, should I just sell it as is, and buy another... feel like a rock in a hard place.. not knowing which way to turn, am looking forward to calling David from api tomorrow to get his thoughts and costs on this..

I have contacted one outfit I came across on google, they seem too good to be true, wondered if anyones had any experience with them, simply called
Reconditioned - Engines .co.uk now they say for 1300 plus vat The engine is stripped to bare component and put into a high pressure cylindrical wash at high temperature with cleansing chemicals, this removes all carbon deposits and debris from previous failures and brings it back to a “bright” metal.

From this stage the Cylinder Block is re-honed and or re-bored. The Pistons and or Rings are then changed, Connecting Rods are then re-honed. The Crankshaft is then reground and or polished. After this the main and big end bearing shells are replaced and the Oil pump reconditioned.
Cylinder Head is stripped down and checked for wear, cracks and for trueness then pressure tested and refaced as necessary. Valve guides are then checked for wear and replaced as necessary After this valve seats are machined and valve guides are then checked for wear and replaced as necessary. New/Refaced valves are then lapped into the head then vacuum tested.

From there we reface the valves and followers as necessary. The Camshaft is then checked for wear and replaced as necessary.

The engine is then reassembled with new gaskets and seals


anyone any thoughts on this ? it will take my bill however to around 1500 inc vat and collection/delivery...

rifleman

steer well clear....as far as i know you dont regrind a scooby crank.
thats a very cheap price for a recon motor.2-3k more realistic for a decent motor from any of the reputable builders on here.the recon oil pump says it all.they are cheap enough to replace not rebuild.
(sounds more like a tart up with a can of silver spray paint)
get the motor out and in bits so it can be inspected by a specialist.then you know what your looking at.(could be just a piston,rings,gasket and head skim if your lucky.if not maybe look at a short motor and rebuild with your top ends assuming they are spot on.

Splitpin

As soon as you get the opportunity, have a look. If the sensor isn't marked as I said earlier that means it's old. If it is a green stripe one, you can tell from the date code when it was made and thus have a pretty good idea how long it's been in the car.

There's minimal disassembly necessary for a compression test. At most just the airbox off the one side and the windscreen washer tank off the other, and then the plugs. Shouldn't take them any more than ten minutes to put it back together.

What sort of nick is the rest of the car in? If the shell's suffering serious corrosion, for example, that would send you one way. If, other than this, the car's great, then you'd have to ask yourself how much value there is in chopping it in for another you'll have absolutely no knowledge of.

Is their price inclusive of removal and refitting to the car? If not you'll be looking at another, what was it you said, £450 for the local garage to do the necessary, as well as transport costs.

If you get it fixed you also need to add in the cost of getting the airflow meter and, if that isn't conclusive, injectors checked.

Even assuming these other refurbishers you've mentioned are a top crew, the biggest argument in favour of someone like API is that they're dealing with these engines all the time.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Forget them. It's a big no-no to regrind a Scoob crank - they're just spouting off 'impressive'-sounding words. They don't sound like Subaru engine building specialists. Sounds all too familiar, this............!

Speak to Dave - if you do decide to go for a rebuild to any affect, then he will be able to do it... and 100% properly too!

Ben123456789

One thing to consider is that if you sell it and buy another one, you may be unlucky and end up in the same situation in 6 months or a years time. But if you invest in a properly reconditioned engine from a reputable tuner, which I'm guessing would be roughly the same price as a secondhand classic in reasonable condition, you will know that the engine will be good for a long time yet (and should have a warrantee).

john5f

iTrader: (3)

Also, in the quote, be aware that items replaced "as necessary" usually means they will be charged extra.

mossi

iTrader: (1)

Agree with you there defo, Im afraid its all down to time and price, with out my car i cant function, cant get to work, cant do anything !! the reconditioned engine crew say that they can complete all this in 7-10 days..

rifleman

i will wait for the post....my cars gone bang after cheap re-con engine...
dont go near them scoobies are specialist cars.i have been qualified mechanic for almost 20 years and wouldnt rebuild my scooby engine,better to have api etc build it and get proper service and guarantee.plus you dont even know yet whats wrong with it.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

+1 Regrinding Subaru cranks is BIG NO NO!!!

1.5k may sound cheap (too cheap), but it aint cheap if the engine goes pop 4 months later (most warranties are only about 3 months) and you then have to pay somewhere like APi 2.5k to do the job properly!!

Don't take shortcuts mate: get it done properly or cut your looses and run now!

mossi

iTrader: (1)

sorry my bad they dont regrind subaru cranks this off the general page of there website, they replace most parts they say, also they give 5 yr 60,000 mile warranty on the engine..

but that aside, I will talk to David from API tomorrow see if he has a solution or a idea..

I dont have a bottomless pit of money to spend on it, so realistically 1500 is my limit..

still stuck on whether to sell as is or repair.. difficult one..

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Even if you get a 0% on purchases for 12m credit card or something, to help pay the bill, then I'd do THAT... AND then also get it rebuilt by API. You WON'T regret that decision in the short, medium or long term.

With the other place you COULD regret it in the short, medium or long term. See where we're all coming from?

Believe me mossi, I'VE actaully been there-done that (as have many others)! Have you seen The Voices member's thread of woe?... Extremely similar parallel to your tale...

Do it right... do it ONCE!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Mate, you cannot go wrong talking to David at API. He will talk you though stuff, he is an acknowledged expert, and is as honest as the day is long. He WILL NOT try to sell you stuff, but will do whatever you decide is best for you from what he advises.
He should be one of your first ports of call.

mossi

iTrader: (1)

well i couldnt sleep, its 4am and i thought what can i do, i know check what other people have said about recon engines co uk on google.. well what a knightmare they sound to be ! seems they are linked to a co called heathrow motor services and also seem to liquidate themseves regulary !!! to avoid paying CCJs against them.. right nasty right up about them here http://forums.t5d5.org/engine-companys-t10896.html so now its api or buy second hand engine and take the risk...i know its not right to be controlled by your purse strings, but im not in the situation where i can afford 2.5 k on a proper rebuild, so what evern option i take it has to be cost effective yes, but also cheap, without being cheap if you get my jist.. but this does not involve using comapanys like engines co uk after reading so many horror stories on the net.. defo one to give a wide berth...

fastmike

iTrader: (4)

Good old Heathrow engine services........ I could tell you a few stories about THEM .

rifleman

He finally sees the light. Hooray

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

mossi, you have answered your own question!

The ONLY way to go is a proper rebuild by the likes of API or other reputable Scoob specialsit.

(Or, sadly, sell her...... )

mossi

iTrader: (1)

HI David

Nice to talk to you the other day, after much deliberation the only real way forward is to let you have a look, I found 2 engines to put in, but even with 1 mnth and 3 mnth warranty, they are still possible timebombs, where as I know this engine in my car is only 30k old as it was fitted by you and if you can repair one piston Im better off with that than another engine chucked in.. So I now own a Peugeot 306 xsi , yuk I know, but its a means to a end, I can get to work and back whilst my car has its heart repaired by the gods that are API.. Ill call you David on Monday to arrange how to get the car to you.

thanks again for all your helpfull adive, Ill be back, might take 5 weeks but Ill be back.. and happy

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Good on you mossi - it'll be worth it...

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Thanks to all scoobynetters who recommended API, drop in if you can, on a Saturday, for free bacon butties

badbill

Dont fill me with confidence that I have exactly the same problem as what you have described...
I will be going through the compression test hassle this week but good luck with what you decide to do