jon_wrx_racing

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````Right lads and ladies, at the moment my blobeye wagon has 301 rampant ponys but i'd really like 350bhp, currently it was a de-catted up-pipe, prodrive sports cat, and de-catted middle and resonator, a VF35 turbo and sti 550cc injectors and re-mapped by scooby clinic, a front mount intercooler is on the way along with a silicon intake pipe too which will be on shortly...

Whats the next step forwards then?

cheers jon

Splitpin

Surely your mappers would be the best people to ask?

If you mean you've got a VF35, your car should be well into the 300's, and probably in the region of 350 bhp already.

The fact that it is "only" scraping just above 300 seems more than a little strange (unless you asked them for 300 and no more of course!) so you'd be well advised to ask Scoobyclinic where they think the brick wall was and go from there. I note you haven't mentioned the fuel pump or regulator so that may be it, but they know the car, so they'll know.

jon_wrx_racing

oops yeah sorry i have a larger fuel pump fitted too...

yeah like you said the best people to speak to would be the mappers, just wondered if it sounds about right as it is but as you said it should be about 350 then its something i'll have to look into!

Butty

iTrader: (2)

As Splitpin.... you "should" be knocking out IRO 330 hp with those mods.
How old is the sports cat BTW?
Jumping from 330 to 350 hp, I'd be looking at getting the fuel pressure up and improving the air intake and exhaust out.
What intercooler is fitted at the moment? I'd say the front mount isn't really needed and instead of the silicon hose, I'd fit a wing mount intake (remap needed), mainly because the intake hose is such a pig to fit.
If you really want to fit the FMIC and intake hose then a remap is needed with it.

Nick

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Why would a WRX make STI power ? My STI made 340 bhp on it's VF35.

You will need the front mount and a set of ported headers, plus a de-cat (maybe) to get to 350 bhp, IMHO.

dunx

Butty

iTrader: (2)

I can only judge by my own 345hp on a WRX wagon, plus the typical figures reported on SN over the years.
Why SHOULDN'T a WRX make the same as an STi on these mods? Its not as if this power level is extreme enough for the STi extras to trump the WRX.

I did forget about the ported headers though

BTW Jon, what boost is this set up showing? Any boost profile from a rolling road you cna post up?

Nick

tayfun

Well my newage (05) sti type uk's history is; it started out as a 265 bhp stock, full de cat 255 walbro and good remap later 325 bhp, cold air induction kit, a boost controller and td05 20g turbo later currently 380 bhp.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

In my day a WRX was good for around 300bhp on a VF35, but I guess they are getting a bit more out of them now ?

Gulp !

dunx

jon_wrx_racing

Heres a print out from scooby clinic. Hope this help understand things a bit more.

I asked at SC why i was down on power ( it was mentioned when i took it for a remap that it should be 330bhp ) they said that is was because of my sti intercooler and that intake pipes are very restrictive.

Like i have said i have a fmic on order, i have not yet ordered the intake pipe. What should my next route be?

Thank you for all the advice.

Jon

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Utter BS.
Far too laggy for a VF35 and its running far too rich.
Ask them to finish the job off properly and trace the problem instead of trying to flog you more stuff .

Better still, take it to another mapper who has some pride in their work.

daijones

My 2.5WRX wagon with 3" turbo back sports cat, pipercross filter, intake resonator removed, Harvey ported headers and up pipe, Process West TMIC, Walbro fuel pump, and 550cc injectors made 330bhp with a Powerstation remap. Was hoping for 340 odd, but turbos vary as do rolling roads. 300 seems low on a 2.0, but I wouldn't expect much more than 320. The standard WRX intercooler would be a limitation, but at that power level I'd have thought an upgraded top-mount was a better choice: easily capable of supporting 350, but without as much lag. An STi intercooler shouldn't be a limitation around the 320 mark. Andy Forrest's guide to upgrades by model is useful. The one for a 2.0 new age WRX is here:
AndyForrestPerformance

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

It's hitting 1 BAR around 3,600 rpm, but it's a 3rd gear run, so the lag probably isn't too far of the mark for non AVCS heads with standard headers. Well too rich though as Butty says.

The most I got out of my VF35 was just over 330bhp and that was with ported headers and FMIC with CAIK. Some people seem to get lucky with 340-350bhp, but 320 to 330 is more the norm.

My car - WR1 (STI8).

Anders

jon_wrx_racing

I know this might sound stupid but how do i know that it is running too rich ?

Anders_WR1

iTrader: (8)

On the right hand side of the second graph you have AFR or Air Fuel Ratio. Your car is rich because it's down at 10.2 where it could be up around 11.0 (and that's still got some safety margin).

If they lean it off a bit, it should make you more power and a bit more economical too

Anders

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Its as if the spool gets killed from 3750 - 5000 rpm and then its back to typical levels of torque for this kit.
Its the AFRs of 10 and below that are really killing the power but I'm so surprised that SC didn't mention it as being a big problem and even more for blaming the low power on having an STi IC and using s inlet pipe - its very unlike them.

Splitpin

Sure does. Between Anders and Butty you have all the info you need.

Butty has already hit this particular nail on the head. Assuming you have standard intake pipework, MAF tube and a newage STi intercooler, those bits are good for the better part of 400bhp without becoming significantly restrictive. Blaming them for only just scraping over 300bhp on your setup sounds a lot like the old adage about the workman and his tools.

If you ordered the FMIC on the basis of the advice you were given about the STi one being restrictive, cancel it, and decide whether you're going to give SC a second chance to map your car, or take it somewhere else. It looks from the graphs that the only thing that has been done to "remap" is to alter the boost target (and presumably wastegate) tables. The fuel map looks to be untouched judging by the AFR, and unless something very strange is going on with your engine, should stand being leaned out quite a bit.

As a matter of interest, do you know who (at SC) mapped it?

petedotuk

Good Post


I got 352bhp from my VF35
Full 3" SS decat system
SS Headers & up-pipe
K&N induction

It was mapped on a RR to produce them figures but drove like POO on the road.

You would be best fitting a 3 port boost solenoid to help control the boost a bit better (unless thats the way its mapped) and get a straight through TBE.

jon_wrx_racing

No idea who mapped it to me honest! but do you think i have a case of taking it back to them as a unfinished job?

Splitpin

Perfectly reasonable to ask them why the mixture seems to be so far out of the expected range. When you said in post #9 that you had an expectation of 330bhp (which is entirely realistic with your hardware), who told you that, SC themselves? If so, and on the basis of what you've currently got, it'd be worth going back and asking why you're some 10% short of the ballpark. It's not like you got a 10% discount on the mapping cost, is it?

If they blame the IC and pipework again, make the point that others have got far more than 330 out of the same parts, and draw attention to the mixture and ask if there's a reason they couldn't run it leaner than that.

As you can see from your second graph, the AFR drops below 10:1 as the turbo really starts to pick up at around 3700rpm, recovers to around 10.2:1 by about 4350 and then starts to head downward again, troughing below the bottom line again. It's 9.something to 1 for much of that run which is waaaay too rich for the 1.24 bar peak MRP.

If you weren't told something like "Well, we had to run it rich because it detted like a bugger any leaner" when you picked it up, that'd be one thing (although you'd then have to ask why it was detting). If they didn't say anything to you about the fuelling, that suggests that nobody noticed.

As Anders says, AFR theoretically should be north of 11:1, maybe even 12:1. Would be a little concerned about the amount of unburnt fuel that will be left with the mixture you're on now, even forgetting about the fuel economy.

Seems to spool quite late for a 2.0/VF35 too. Do you still have the standard two port boost control solenoid btw?

All in all an odd looking graph, and unexpected. Certainly worth asking some questions, or, possibly, getting a second opinion from another mapper.

jon_wrx_racing

Thats helped me understand it alot more, Im just worried that as i am not an expert in this field that they are just going to fob me off with some other reason.

I was not told of any problems when I went to pick it up.

The other thing that i cant understand is that I had gone to see them before I booked it in to see if i needed anything else, and the only thing was getting an decated up pipe, so I did. No mention of a fmic then.

I still have the standard two port soleniod.

Thanks for everyones help.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

jon, if you get nowhere with SC through them being stubborn/unhelpful etc., then cut your losses and call in the military! lol...

Ergo, get JGM Simon, or travel to ZEN, for a re-remap. Either one will sort it out good and proper.

Splitpin

Someone really cynical (much moreso than me) might suggest that the intercooler/pipework thing was exactly that.

Yeah, says a lot that, doesn't it? Let us know what you decide to do next, and how you get on.