Hobstar82

Looking to upgrade the turbo on my classic V5 UK Turbo 2000.
The company who re-mapped my car suggested the VF34. Is this the puppy or should I consider sumink else. I do intend on squeezing lots outta her but want a turbo I can use untill I strip the engine down and upgrade the internals. Would be nice to only buy one turbo for the job for before and after engine re-build, or is this not the way forward.

Thanks

StiX

iTrader: (4)

Depends on how much you want to spend I suppose - and how much power you want?

I've just upgraded to a VF35 which is very similar to a VF34. I am now running 325bhp and am quite happy with that as any higher and you are looking at a lot more wonga.

I don't particularly want to change intercooler/gearbox/uprate engine internals so a VF35 suits me fine.

However if you want high 300s or more then you will have to do the above on a UK Turbo which is not cheap!!

If you are after big power then I think you will need 2 turbos as you have suggested.

Or you uprate internals/gearbox/intercooler etc. first then go big turbo and remap?

Hobstar82

The guys who remapped her recon they can get her up2 320bhp with the VF34 and another remap.

I want to put a FM intercooler, high flow injectors and a 6speed box in it when I overhaul the engine anyhow.

Just not sure if the VF34 as a single turbo option will be the best option for when I do the rest of the mods.

StiX

iTrader: (4)

No its not although you should be able to reach 350 with a VF34 if thats the level you are after?

Hobstar82

Sounds crazy but looking for 400+ after engine O/H and rebore. I realise this is gonne cost alot thats why I wanna get her up2 the 320/350 mark first, have some fun whilst saving for the parts and rebore for me rebuild.

What your getting at is the VF34 is good for 350 but then I'll have to upgrade turbo again for next stage!?!

Do you have a suggestion?

StiX

iTrader: (4)

Exactly mate yes.

For 380+ its TD05 20G or the MDs I would say - although not too knowledgeable for these as I've never wanted to go that far

Adam K

Sell your current car and buy a STi!
With a remap and some exhaust tweaks you'll see solid 300s, and for high 300s you don't have to rebuild (probably).
Cheaper, lot less problems. Lots of goodies already in the car that you don't even know you want!

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

The MD321H turbo should see you to 400+bhp on V-Power. Will need at least 550cc injectors too.

But in your engine o/h, you'll need multi-layer steel HGs, a quality brand of really strong forged pistons and rods, ACL Race Series, or Cossie, bearings all round... probably best to stick in a new STi V9 crank too.

Oh, and you'll probably have to address your std g/b sooner or later...

Hobstar82

Sell your current car and buy a STi!

Wont be sellin the car cus thats missing the point, all be it, I'm sure, some of the changes will have STI spec parts. This is a long term project for a quick "Turbo 2000"!

Rite O chaps, thanks for the info. Think I'll go for the vf34 for the time being! Then when I get bored or sumink else rips past me that I'm not amused about (which probably wont take long, lol), I'll pull the engine out and go thru it, just means I'll have to get me another turbo!

StiX

iTrader: (4)

325bhp in a classic is pretty quick!

Still getting used to it

wrx fifer

iTrader: (34)

is a vf35 not a better option than the 34 i know spool up times can be very similar according to previous dyno runs and threads but surely you can squeeze 350-380 from a vf35 im sticking one in my sport this week hoping to get around the 330-360 after andy forrest map sitting at traffic lights and you see the rear hubs mm sport lol then i rip off thats the plan lol

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

From what I've read on people's experiences of the VF34 and 35, then 350+ bhp is the exception, rather than the rule. So I'd say, on average, 360+ is optimistic to say the least.

If you want c.350-375, then a TD05H 18g will fit the bill rather nicely (without knackering spool-up to any significant degree).

The last time I asked, BOB'5 had one left for sale!

Hobstar82

If I were to go with the td05 18g can I use this before I do the engine rebuild, fuel system upgrade etc with just a remap or is there no point.

Enginetuner.co.uk recommended the vf34 as nothing else needs doin other than remap. However would be nice to only buy the one turbo that I can use again to get more horses after rebuild

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

No point geting 2 diff tutbos for 2 diff stages, esp. if the 1st stage is a 'tide you over' period. Nothing stops you from gettting a turbo 'big' enough for your ultimate bhp goal, but in the meantime getting it mapped deliberately 'low' i.e. by holding back on boost level and/or ign timimg, etc.

Then, when you get the engine strengthened, go the beans on that turbo by getting it remapped to its full potential... You know it makes sense.

Hobstar82

I hear you bud, thats the answer i've been lookin for and totaly makes sense. Doh!

The only thing tho is if its detuned for a specific turbo will i have low spool time?

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

It probably won't be ideal having a big turbo not running at its near-peak efficiency - prob a bit laggy, 'etc... Possibly not too nice to drive.

But hey, it won't be for long running it like that, will it? And will save some significant dosh in the long run.

Hobstar82

I'd hope not but me pockets aren't that deep, lol! Otherwise i'd get straight on with the rebuild.

OBXR Rick

I have a UK2000, Impreza, 1999 Wagon and just fitted a TD06 -20G, st st equal headers, twin uppipe, 3.5 in staight through de-cat, 5" exit. green series panel filter, uprated mass airflow sensor 550cc injectors, 225lph Wabro fuel pump, 3 way boost solinoid off a Wrx Sti Type RA and had the ECU remapped and rolling road tested and its putting out 382.3Bhp. Was very shocked that the engine can take that kind of power. seeing as its a uk model, although the gear box will probably need replacing or rebuild shortly as it is already whining... very upsetting but expected. so add a gearbox and diff to your mods too..

Hobstar82

Nice upgrades, cheers for the info, but wouldn't hold much hope of the big ends holding out for long!?!

If your gonna do the box stick a 6spd in her! Shouldn't need to change diff as its uk spec...I think.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

IMHO If you don't have deep pockets fit the 34 and enjoy it.

Then if it needs doing later sell the 34 and up-grade.

Decent kit does lose value once 2nd hand.

dunx

StiX

iTrader: (4)

As Dunx said!

6 Speed - £2k
Engine rebuilt to higher spec - £4k?
TD05 18/20G - £700ish
550cc injectors - £340
Front Mount Fitted - £500ish
Remap - £600ish


Total - very approx. £8k

or..

VF34 - £400ish (secondhand)
Remap - £600ish

Total - approx. £1k.


Hmm bit of a difference!!

325bhp in a classic as I keep saying is PDQuick.

Equivalent Power/Weight:

367bhp in a Newage WRX
393bhp in a Newage STi
standard Aston Martin DB9

Hobstar82

6 Speed - £2k
Engine rebuilt to higher spec - £4k?
TD05 18/20G - £700ish
550cc injectors - £340
Front Mount Fitted - £500ish
Remap - £600ish

Luckely wont cost me as much as all this!

I'm in the trade (10 yrs now!) and want to get stuck into my own project rather than other ppl's! Doing all the mods myself so no labour costs! just social costs! Lol! And trade price on parts! All ready had first remap, £500, so paid license fee and have arranged good price for next stage!

If I weren't in the trade I probably wouldn't go quite so indepth, init!

Just looking for advice on what ppl have used and recommend. So far so good, thanks to all!! (keep it coming!!)

StiX

iTrader: (4)

Ah - ok but I'd imagine even being in the trade the parts will add up?

But yes it won't cost you anywhere near as much

Forgot you had mentioned that you had remapped already so that'll only cost you a couple of hundred.

Still cost you a fair wedge with engine parts/gearbox/injectors/turbo though?

Hobstar82

Yer imagine parts will still add up!

Talkin of gearbox, got any ideas of what 6 speed box will fit? Also was told that as mines uk spec I wont need to change the diff. Is this true? and what about the prop?

Ummm I feel another thread comin on! Lol!

99greenwagon

iTrader: (39)

im running 300/300 on my 99 uk wagon and it is quick,not really been able to compare it with anything as yet.but quite happy for now,thats on the vf35 with no engine mods.

99greenwagon

iTrader: (39)

oh forgot to say,thats running 1.36bar peak boost.

StiX

iTrader: (4)

I'm running a VF35 - 325/320 @ 1.5bar.

Once it starts to get going (1bar by 3k) it really flies. Also as it now produces power all the way to 7k makes a big difference. TD04s run out of puff by 5.5k.

So 70 in second and 100 in third.

I'm sure I'll get used to mine pretty soon - but its taking a while

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

Just to confuse you even more I had this information added to a thread I started in the Welsh section by Blue Dragoon , it gives you some good information about the VF series of turbochargers :

VF22
This turbo has the highest output potential of all of the IHI VF series turbos and is the best choice for those who are looking for loads of top end power. The top end power however, does not come without a cost. The VF22 spools significantly slower than the rest of the IHI models due to the larger P20 exhaust housing and is much less suited for daily driving than some of the other models. Although the largest VF series turbo, the VF22 is not quite optimal for stroked engines or those who wish to run more than 20PSI of boost.

VF23
This turbo is considered a great all-around turbo. Like the VF22 it utilizes the largest P20 exhaust housing. This housing is mated with a smaller compressor housing of the of the VF24. This turbo is considered optimal in applications with range from mild to slightly wild. It does not have the same top end power of the VF22, but spools up significantly quicker.

VF24
This turbo shares its compressor housing with the VF23 however, this housing is mated with a smaller (P18) exhaust side. The smaller characteristics of this turbo allow it to provide ample bottom end power and quick spool. This turbo is very popular for Imprezas with automatic transmissions and Group N rally cars.

VF28
This turbo came standard on the STi Version 5. In terms of overall size, it is smaller than the VF22, VF30 and VF34, and about same size as the VF23.

VF29
This Turbo is nearly identical to the VF24, with the same compressor and exhaust housings. However the compressor wheel in the VF29 is has been changed slightly. The changes made to the compressor wheel in this model are generally viewed as improvements, and as such this unit is typically chosen over the VF24.

VF30
The VF30 is commonly considered the best bang for the buck turbo in the IHI VF series line. A relatively new model the VF30 features the same exhaust housing as the VF24 but a larger compressor side similar to the VF22. The combination of these two parts results in increased output potential without the lag associated with the VF22. Although it doesn't offer the top end supremacy of the VF22, the VF30 is a great compromise between these unit and the quicker spooling models.

VF34
The VF34 is nearly identical to the VF30, with the same exhaust housing and compressor. However the VF34 goes back to the ball bearing design, and in doing so achieves full boost approximately 500RPM sooner than the comparable VF30. The VF34 is the most recent IHI design and as such costs slightly more than its counterpart. Top end performance and maximum output are identical to the 30.

VF35
The VF35 has identical internals as the VF30 and it uses divided thrust bearings. However, the exhaust housing is a P15 which means this turbo will have fantastic spool characteristics. This turbo is standard on the new WRX Type RA. LIMITED SUPPLY.

VF36
Roller bearing version of the twin scroll VF37, also has a titanium turbine and shaft for even quicker spool. Same compressor housing as VF30/34, however twin scroll P25 exhaust housing provides slightly better top end output due to reduced exhaust pulse interference. This turbo is good for 400HP and used on JDM STI Spec C from 2003 onwards.

VF37 (thrust bearing)
Enter the age of twin scroll IHI turbos. Same compressor housing as VF30/34, however has a new twin scroll P25 exhaust housing that provides slightly better top end output due to reduced exhaust pulse interference. Twin scroll also provides better spool up for improved low down response over the VF30/34. This turbo is good for 400HP and used on JDM STI from 2003 onwards.

VF38
Twin scroll turbo with titanium turbine and shaft. Smaller compressor housing than VF36/VF37 provides tremendous spool up capabilities but less top end than VF36/37. The spool capabilities of this turbo are demonstrated on the JDM Legacy GT, which reaches peak torque at 2400RPM.

VF39
Single scroll turbo used on USDM STI and latest 2.5L STIs released internationally. Smaller than VF30/VF34.

VF42
Exclusive turbo to the S203/S204 models, this features a twin scroll design with a slightly larger compressor than the VF36/37 turbos and different turbine design (more blades). The VF42 is a roller-bearing turbo and is likely of similar size to the VF22 turbo, but with twin scroll exhaust housing for faster spool and superior top end performance due to reduced exhaust pulse interference.

PE 1818 The 1818 supposedly comes on boost extremely fast...which make it great for road racing or aggressive driving (remember to be responsible :^). The 1818 maxes out somewhere between 350-375 hp.

PE 1820 The 1820 is larger than the 1818 and is capable of running more boost, but at the expense of more turbo lag. Expect it not attain full boost until you have passed 4000 rpm. However, it can be tuned to 400+ hp.



IHI & Garret Turbo Specs
Model Type Compressor Inlet Diameter Compressor Housing Nominal Turbine Housing Turbine Approx A/R Compressor Wheel Blades Turbine Wheel Blades Waste Gate Actuator Turbine Casting ID & Batch
VF22 Roller Bearing 48.5 A 9.4 PZ20-H 94001 0.71 5 11 C395 H, H4
VF 23 Roller Bearing 46.7 B 9.4 PZ20-H 94001 0.71 6 11 C395 8psi TBA
VF 24 Roller Bearing 46.7 B 9.4 PZ18-H 94001 0.63 6 11 C418 8psi H, S4, 66
VF 30 Bronze Bearing 47.9 C 9.4 PZ18-H 94001 0.63 6 11 C484 H, S4, IC F55
VF 34 Roller Bearing

Garrett 400 Ball Bearing 53 - - Outlet Dia 51.5 - 7 9 11 psi
Garrett 450-500 Ball Bearing 53 Outlet Dia 46.9 - 7 10 14 psi




Turbo Type ----------- Approx flow @ pressure
Stock Turbo ---------- 360 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 25 ------------- 370 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 26 ------------- 390 CFM at 14.7 PSI
T3 60 trim ----------- 400 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 27 ------------- 400 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 24/28/29 ----- 410 CFM at 14.7 PSI
========= 422 CFM max flow for a 2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 RPM =======
IHI VF 23 ------------- 423 CFM at 14.7 PSI
FP STOCK HYBRID -- 430 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF-30 ------------- 435 CFM at 14.7 PSI
SR 30 ----------------- 435 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF-22 ------------ 440 CFM at 14.7 PSI
T04E 40 trim -------- 460 CFM at 14.7 PSI
========= 464 CFM max flow for a 2.2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
PE1818 -------------- 490 CFM at 14.7 PSI
Small 16G ------------ 505 CFM at 14.7 PSI
ION Spec (stg 0) --- 525 CFM at 14.7 PSI
========= 526 CFM max flow for a 2.5 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 RPM =======
Large 16G ----------- 550 CFM at 14.7 PSI
SR 40 ----------------- 595 CFM at 14.7 PSI
18G ------------------- 600 CFM at 14.7 PSI
PE 1820 -------------- 630 CFM at 14.7 PSI
20G ------------------ 650 CFM at 14.7 PSI
SR 50 ---------------- 710 CFM at 14.7 PSI
GT-30 ---------------- 725 CFM at 14.7 PSI
60-1 ----------------- 725 CFM at 14.7 PSI
GT-35R -------------- 820 CFM at 14.7 PSI
T72 ------------------ 920 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- Note you would have to spin a 2.0 L engine at about 14,000 rpm to flow this much air.
IHI VF 25 ----------- 395 CFM at 18 PSI
IHI VF 26 ----------- 400 CFM at 18 PSI
T3 60 trim ---------- 410 CFM at 20 PSI
IHI VF 27 ----------- 420 CFM at 18 PSI
IHI VF 24/28/29 -- 425 CFM at 18 PSI
IHI VF 23 ----------- 430 CFM at 18 PSI
IHI VF-30 ----------- 460 CFM at 18.0 PSI
AVO 320HP -------- 465 CFM at 17.5 PSI
T04E 40 trim ------ 465 CFM at 22 PSI
FP STOCK HYBRID- 490 CFM at 18.0 PSI
IHI VF-22 ---------- 490 CFM at 18.0 PSI
SR 30 --------------- 490 CFM at 22 PSI
Small 16G ---------- 490 CFM at 22 PSI
ION Spec (stg 0) - 500 CFM at 19 PSI
PE1818 ------------ 515 CFM at 22 PSI
Large 16G --------- 520 CFM at 22 PSI
========= 526 CFM max flow for a 2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
========= 578 CFM max flow for a 2.2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
HKS GT2835 ------- 580 CFM at 22 PSI 400 hp
MRT 400 ------------ 580 CFM at 16 PSI
AVO 400HP -------- 580 CFM at 17.5 PSI
MRT 450 ------------ 650 CFM at 19 PSI
AVO 450HP -------- 650 CFM at 20.0 PSI
SR 40 ---------------- 650 CFM at 22 PSI
========= 658 CFM max flow for a 2.5 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
HKS GT3037 ------ 670 CFM at 22 PSI 460 hp
PE 1820 ----------- 680 CFM at 22 PSI
20G ---------------- 695 CFM at 20.0 PSI
HKS GT3040 ----- 710 CFM at 22 PSI 490 hp
AVO 500HP ------ 770 CFM at 22 PSI
SR 50 ------------- 770 CFM at 22 PSI
GT-30 ------------- 790 CFM at 22 PSI
60-1 --------------- 800 CFM at 22 PSI
HKS GT3240 ----- 830 CFM at 22 PSI 570 hp
GT-35R ----------- 880 CFM at 22 PSI
T72 --------------- 1000 CFM at 22 PSI <--- note you would have to run a 2.0 L engine at >40 PSI boost to flow this much air
Conversions used where there was control over conversion factors:
1 HP approx equals 1.45 CFM
1 CFM approx equals 0.0745 lb of air/min
0.108 Lb/min approx equals 1 hp
1 Meter cubed/sec = 35.314 CFS = 2118.867 CFM
1 KG/sec = 132 lbs/min approx equals 1771.812 CFM
power coversions:
1 PS = 0.9859 HP = 75 Kgf m/sec
1.3405 HP = 1 KW
1 HP = 746 watts

Hope this helps.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Select a turbo carefully and consider other parts that will need doing too.

Don't overlook stronger gearbox options £2k - £3k.

dave_garrett

iTrader: (24)

Have run both the VF35 and VF34 turbos on my sti type uk (both gave similar power figures/dyno graphs). Made about 340bhp/300ft lbs, mapped at Powerstation with both. VF34's tend to be more expensive both new and secondhand and IMHO there's not much difference on the road, slightly earlier spool on the 34 (and slightly more mid and top end power but not sure if the extra mid and top power was the mapping). I would say go for the cheaper VF35 (I think there's one on the market place at the mo) and save your money for future mods if your thinking of changing the turbo anyway.