Funkierthanfunky

Hello
Have just rebuilt the engine in my Type RA Version 2, it now has a new block 2.5ltr with forged pistons from Dave at API and have got installed and ready to go.
But it WON'T START!!!
Have checked compression in all 4 cylinders and they are all around 140psi.
Have double checked the timing and this is correct.
Have had each spark out and turned engine over and we are getting a spark.
We are getting fuel as we can smell it when we take the plugs out although 2 plugs seem to be wet with fuel when we remove them and the other 2 are dry.
We have checked and rechecked the connections to spark plugs cam sensor, crank sensor etc.
Sparks and injector connections are white to the front of the car black to the back.
It turns over and seems to want to go but just won't fire.
Desperately need some help as we are going back to the Nurbrurgring in two weeks......as in we are booked on the ferry a week on Friday and need to get the engine run in and get the engine mapped again before then which is proving difficult as we can't get the thing to start!!!!!

Steve

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

Steve - It sounds like you have everything you need to fire the engine - you didnt mix the camshafts up Left to Right when you built the top end up did you - if they are fitted wrong,there is no way the engine will fire up even though the cam timing marks line up/look right.

Mick

Funkierthanfunky

Don't think we could have mixed them up. As soon as the heads were off we put the cams back in until we had to remove them again to bolt the heads back on, we only did one head at a time and kept the cams with their retaining caps which have inlet and exhaust stamped on them so I hope we haven't got them mixed. Not the easiest thing to check noe the engine is back in the car either so let's hope they are correct.

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you have taken care building it up then - bit of a pain with the engine in but whip a cam cover off to double check ( RH = turbo side, LH = Passenger side ) if nothing else works.
Are the fuel pipes swapped - feed and return ??

Funkierthanfunky

Mick
Sounds like you've been down this route before...
All the fuel lines were marked up with tape A, B, C etc before we disassembled so again hope not and we do seem to be getting fuel in the cylinders as we can smell it on the plugs.
Steve

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

we spent hours trying to start a mates rebuild 2 plugs dry 2 wet went through everything turned out cams were in wrong heads they will fit and all the timing marks looked correct but i wernt having none of it /ripped it out swapped em over and guess what it started after 2 turns of engine

Funkierthanfunky

Hmmmm
So if I take the turbo side cam cover off whilst engine is in the car will I be able to see 'RH' stamped on the camshafts somewhere? And if so will I be able to see this whilst the engine is the car?
Steve

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

in a word yes lol but it aint that easy but you can see it we used a good torch

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

As above - you might have to turn the engine over by hand to bring the ID marks on the cams into view, but you will be able to see them.

Mick

Funkierthanfunky

Thanks guys.
Even though I don't think we could have mixed this up during assembly as we only did one head at a time and at no time had 4 camshafts kicking around next to each other I'm going to have to go and check it aren't I just for peice of mind and as part of the elimenation process.

Funkierthanfunky

Just another question on this then, is it possible to get the inlet and exhaust cams the wrong way round? Do they fit in the wrong places? Do they have any identifiying marks on them to show that they are inlet and exhaust when I'm looking for the 'RH' markings?

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

Cams are clearly marked Steve :




Mick

Funkierthanfunky

Mick
That's fantastic, thanks. Going to take the RH rockercover off now and have a look. Will let you know how I get on in a little while.
Steve

Funkierthanfunky

Uh oh.
Don't know how we managed it but inlet and exhaust cams are in the wrong place on the turbo side of the engine......
Going to try to swap them round with the engine in the car.
Thanks for the info guys, brings me to another question though, could this have damaged the valves??
Steve

Funkierthanfunky

Does anyone know if it is possible to remove cams whilst the engine is in the car, turbo side looks doable but if I have to do the LH side doesn't look a lot of room, I'm thinking about getting the 26mm spanner in to stop cams turning while I undo the cam pulley retaining bolt???
Any tried this?

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

Glad you found the problem Steve - best check the other side too - and the valves should be ok too.
You can do both sides in situ but tight for space to crack the cam pulley bolts loose - try loosening the bolts before you drop the cam belt off.
Failing that - bite the bullet and pull the engine out again.

Mick

ps - mine's a Guinness

Funkierthanfunky

Mick
If this sorts it then you can have all the guinness you want. High speed passenger laps of the ring in two weekends time too I hope!!
Steve

Funkierthanfunky

Ok, it started first turn of the key, still don't know how we got them mixed up as the cam bearing caps were in the correct place but not the cams!!
I'm not sure about the valves not getting damaged if the cams are in the wrong position, the rh cylinder head sounds very 'tappety'?? Could this be a valve problem?

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

At least you have it running now Steve - are you running Hydraulic lifters or Top Hat Inner Shims ?
Hydraulic lifters can take a while to pump up fully and quieten down or if you have shimmed type buckets, then the clearances could be too big causing the tappety noise.
You could also have an exhaust gas leak from the up-pipe area or a loose spark plug causing a "ticking" noise.

Mick

Funkierthanfunky

Mick
Have what I beleive to be solid lifters, small top hat inside the bucket. Am now seriously doubting my meticulous organisation in the garage....
Suspect that aswell as the cams getting mixed up could also have mixed up the buckets and shims.
Am thinking of taking turbo side rocker off (again) tomorrow and doing a random sampling of the clearance's to try to establish weather not this is the cause.
If this proves to be the case and the clearances are wrong then I could do some maths to work out which should go where and swap them to the correct places and then check them all again and so on until they are all correct. From my experiences today I think I could do this with the head still on the block but will be very tricky.

Funkierthanfunky

My thinking is that if I have big clearance at one cam lobe and no clearance at another then they could be swapped until they are in the correct locations, as we have just replaced the block with a new short engine we did not remove the valves or lap them in as they appeared to be in good condition and we had not had any problems before all the shims should have a home that will result in correct clearances.....eventually.